Drinking, Know I Shouldn't...

[capnhowdy]

What do you get, from consuming alcohol?

High?

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I've been to three AA (AAA) meetings. Hated them, hated them, hated them. One for each time I went. May have been four. Hated that too.

Just not me, sorry.
Everyone talks about God, and how God saved them, and protected them, and led them to a final denouement. I know the official line is that you don't have to believe in God, but you DO have to believe in a higher power. I tried making that evolution, but when you're listening to a bunch of people talk about the guy with the big white beard ("sometimes they confuse me Santa Claus") and you're thinking of Darwin, it's hard to take it seriously.

I've never read a POV from a successful atheist AAer.
Maybe we're all godless and hopeless.
If there was a similar godless organisation I genuinely would give it a try.
Huh. Smokers don't have this problem! They get patches!

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I've been to three AA (AAA) meetings. Hated them, hated them, hated them. One for each time I went. May have been four. Hated that too.

I have never liked support groups either and never have participated and joined them. I refuse to sit around and talk about how hard something is.

To me there is something of a loss of personal power and perhaps that is what you feel? I think there is much to be said being responsible for one's own self and using the brains and will power we were born with.

I always find truth in watching nature. Weeds always come up through the cracks in the pavement. When a tree falls another always grows to replace it. Flowers grow up toward the sky and baby birds without ever being told (?- lol) how will propel themselves from the nest in an attempt to fly. The natural world points to the fact that its energies are geared toward improvement. Even if you believe in Darwin's theory you can see that animals evolve to a better form eventually. Inside you is that very same energy that strives to be better and you will find the tools to accomplish what your heart desires. It just takes time. You just have to want it over and over again until those times in between drinking become greater and greater. You'll keep fighting to progress because it is in natures design that you do. I believe anyone who doesn't just makes a choice not to.

ps. To be fair I do believe in god. Not in the typical way but in the way I described. I've been agnostic. I've been a church goer. Now I am nothing but someone who still finds nature so incredible I have to concede in a higher power but on my own terms. Stop thinking about the bearded men think about the god given power in you. The part of you that makes you a beautiful person.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

SG...every step you learn. No shame allowed.

I agree with this so much. I think it is at the heart of the matter.

Kick shame's butt. Kill it. Kill the shame.

[DanaC]

A slip is a slip. That's all. It's the bigger picture that counts. The bigger picture is that you drink less often than you did. From a health perspective that's great. From a self improvement perspective it's definite progress. Rather than focus on the times you do reach for a few beers, focus on the many times that you don't, where once you would have. You don't have to be tee-total to be less dependant on alcohol than you were. It isn't an all or nothing game.

Sky's right (not about the God stuff ...sorry Sky, all that 'God-given' talk just makes me shudder:P) kick shame's butt. It is useless to you. Doesn't help you even a tiny bit. Don;t give it house room. Shame and guilt and remorse are all pointless excursions into emotional self-harm. From time to time you get pissed; some aspects of which are fun ad other aspects of which are upsetting. Chalk each time up to the night before and leave it there where it belongs. Try and enjoy it when you do it (why waste it?) knowing each time that it'll probably be a long time before you do it again. Try to make it a long time in between. You don't have to be perfect to be better. Don't use it as an excuse to beat yourself up.

We love you. You should love you too

[Trilby]

Dana is right, SG. You are moving forward, your recon missions into enemy BoozeLand are few and far between. You are making progress and that is all even the most disciplined of us can do - so chin decidedly UP, girl.

Why do we drink? The reasons are as many as stars in the Skyy Vodka - and it's not the Why it's the What Happens that matters anyway.

Sundae.

[Sundae]

You're all far too good to me.
Thanks - I do learn something every time, except I never realised there could be so many sneaky rules to learn. English grammar is a snap compared to working myself out.

And when I come here and people are generous and kind, disapproving and exasperated, supportive and reasonable all in different ways, it reminds me that it's worth the effort.

[TheDaVinciChode]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Why do we drink? The reasons are as many as stars in the Skyy Vodka - and it's not the Why it's the What Happens that matters anyway.

The "why" is far more important, than the "what happened."

Physically - You gain weight, you destroy your liver, and various other parts of your body.

Emotionally - You become depressed (it is, after all, a depressive,) withdrawn, dependant.

Spiritually - You feel a great deal of shame, regret, and remorse.

So much for a "break from the torments of life."

Addiction is simply another term for being unable to find a "suitable vice." A term we label people who do something, these days, that we consider "socially unacceptable." Basically - It's a cop out. "I'm addicted, I can't help it." That's not true, anyone can help it.

I mean, look at the OP. She feels shamed for drinking less than most people would eat chocolate, or junk food... That's nothing to be ashamed of, but, she feels it, because she's, at some point or another, been labelled "addicted" to the alcohol. Isn't that a tad unfair? There's nothing to be ashamed of, for drinking LESS than a large portion of this country, Sundae. Ignore the label, forget it, completely.

Without the "label" of "alcoholic," of "addicted..." What would a random nobody think, of you drinking for one night, or two, of a seven day week? Even if you did it, every week? Nothing. How would you feel, about the same? Not a care.

Remove the label, and you'll find that you're already better.

Then you just need to replace it for physical reasons, because the emotional, and spiritual reasons, should never've been there, to start with...

I've read around, that you're on a diet, I believe? You've made tremendous progress, too. In that, I applaud you. So, if you've only got to deal with alcohol, in terms of a diet... I'm sure you're more than well-equipped to do so. Replace one vice, with a more physically acceptable substitute. Diet it away.

Couldn't be simpler. Drop the label, you don't deserve it. Diet the alcohol away, you deserve to be healthy.

But, who am I to say? I'm nobody.

[classicman]

Here here. Excellent post TDC!

[Sundae]

But the why is part of the problem.
I drink to escape. That's weak and disgusting and only makes me feel worse because I know it exacerbates all my problems, tangible, emotional or physical (depression, low self esteem, self doubt, obesity, lack of money, living with parents).

To an extent, yes this is all in my head.
But if only I could get my head sorted out, the rest would be so easy.

I don't actually label myself.
I say I have a prblem with drinking. And I do. And that I'm pretty confident about. Bloody hell I wish I hadn't.
But the larger problem is with myself.
Coming here reminds me I have less of a problem than I did a year, two years ago. Back then I thought I lived in Quick Fix Land. I now realise it's a long trek. Very rewarding, and you meet amazing people along the way, but occasionally just boring and repetitive. Specially when you have to cover the same ground three, four, five times.

Better stop posting before I try to continue the analogy. I'm hardly John Bunyan.

[limey]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

...Coming here reminds me I have less of a problem than I did a year, two years ago. Back then I thought I lived in Quick Fix Land. I now realise it's a long trek. Very rewarding, and you meet amazing people along the way, but occasionally just boring and repetitive. Specially when you have to cover the same ground three, four, five times.....

Two steps forward, one step back. But you are heading in the right direction SG.

[Trilby]

In AA they say the why isn't important - you can examine your bellybutton all you want the fact of the matter is that - no matter WHY (and if you're an alcoholic you'll find as many reasons to drink as grains of sand on the beach) - it's what happens once you put that drink into your body that matters. The craving, the inability to quit...all that nasty addiction stuff. If I DON"T put a drink in my body, I DON"T trigger the addiction. If I DO put a drink in me - all bets are off. that is what I meant, oh guru of the davincichode.

ya know what? fuck it. You're already so much smarter than me. Just pretend it's a diet. that'll work.

[SamIam]

Brianna is right. There is only one reason for drinking that matters to an alcoholic. We drink because of the addiction. DaVinciChode means well, but for most people it is important to admit that they have a problem. If you refuse to accept that you have a problem, you will never take steps to solve it.

As long as I thought I could somehow squirm out of labeling myself alcoholic, I continued to drink. By the end I was leading a very miserable life.

By admitting to my alcoholism, I was able to get help and to sober up.

My heart goes out to you, S.G. I know full well how miserable picking up that drink can feel. I hope with all my heart that you find the help you need to lead a sober and serene life.

[TheDaVinciChode]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Brianna is right. There is only one reason for drinking that matters to an alcoholic. We drink because of the addiction. DaVinciChode means well, but for most people it is important to admit that they have a problem. If you refuse to accept that you have a problem, you will never take steps to solve it.

As long as I thought I could somehow squirm out of labeling myself alcoholic, I continued to drink. By the end I was leading a very miserable life.

By admitting to my alcoholism, I was able to get help and to sober up.

My heart goes out to you, S.G. I know full well how miserable picking up that drink can feel. I hope with all my heart that you find the help you need to lead a sober and serene life.

Sundae has admitted she has a problem, and has progressed to such a place where she no longer does... she drinks less, on average, than the average citizen of England, or, I'll wager, most places in the world. She has beaten her alcoholism, and no longer deserves the guilt associated with it.

So, we remove the label, as it has been beaten, and look at what's left, without the guilt of "falling from grace," when, in all fairness, you've fallen nowhere.

(If you are able to control the fall, and it doesn't lead straight back to the addiction, you should feel no guilt. Every time you drink, but don't take it too far, you've beaten your addiction, you're "normal." As such, you should feel no guilt, no shame... it's undeserved, and very unfairly placed.)

What's left? The "why," and the physical issues associated with a harmful substance.

Seems no different than eating too much unhealthy food, now, does it? Hence "diet."

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode

Sundae has admitted she has a problem, and has progressed to such a place where she no longer does... she drinks less, on average, than the average citizen of England, or, I'll wager, most places in the world. She has beaten her alcoholism, and no longer deserves the guilt associated with it.

Sundae will have to tell us (if she wants) if she considers herself alcoholic. More enlightened people view alcoholism as a disease. It should be considered as no more shameful than having diabetes.

So, we remove the label, as it has been beaten, and look at what's left, without the guilt of "falling from grace," when, in all fairness, you've fallen nowhere.

Personally, I will consider myself alcoholic until the day that I die. Alcohol will always be out there waiting for me to start up again. I wouldn't call a slip or relapse "falling from grace." A slip is just a slip. You climb back on the horse and try again.

(If you are able to control the fall, and it doesn't lead straight back to the addiction, you should feel no guilt. Every time you drink, but don't take it too far, you've beaten your addiction, you're "normal." As such, you should feel no guilt, no shame... it's undeserved, and very unfairly placed.)

I agree that a real alcoholic cannot control the fall - at least not for very long. Guilt is a very counter-productive emotion. An addict is someone who has lost the ability to drink normally. Anyone who can return to social drinking was not an alcoholic in the first place.

What's left? The "why," and the physical issues associated with a harmful substance.

For someone who is merely a heavy drinker, the why might be important. The reason an alcoholic drinks is because s/he is addicted to alcohol.

Seems no different than eating too much unhealthy food, now, does it? Hence "diet."

Yes, I can see the point of your diet analogy. Interesting thought.

[sexobon]

Why drink?

When we drink, we get drunk.
When we get drunk, we fall asleep.
When we're asleep, we commit no sin.
When we commit no sin, we go to heaven.
So, let’s all get drunk and go to heaven!

[DanaC]

I think there's a difference between having a problem with alcohol and being an 'alcoholic'. I think Sundae had/has a problem with alcohol, in that it is her chosen escape and therefore when all she wanted was escape and quick solutions she turned to it far too often. I don't believe (though she can correct me if I am wrong) that she was a full-blown 'addict'. She was/is addicted to escape, rather than the actual substance of alcohol. At least that's my reading of the situation.