1/12/2004: Civet cat kill

[quzah]

Originally posted by Beletseri
Killing the civet cats has really bothered me. All these critters, I read something like 10,000 to be killed, are kept in lousy conditions just because people want to eat exotic meat. Who the heck needs to eat a civet cat? Does anyone know whether these are wild caught animals?

Give me a fucking break. Go eat a cow. Or some poultry. Those are all kept in pristine conditions! No, wait, they're not. Who gives a shit if it's a cat? Dead is dead. A life is a life. I don't care if it's a pig or a parrot. Why is one tear-worthy and the other is super-size worthy?

Besides, who gives a shit if it's "wild caught" or not? So it's fine if they eat a cat if it's "farmed", but not if it's wild? God damn people annoy me.

Quzah.

[Beletseri]

Yes, to me farmed raised is different than wild caught. Wild caught kept in tiny cages is worse than wild caught that is killed immediately.

I don't care if you like my view or not so ranting at me doesn't help anything.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Beletseri
I don't care if you like my view or not so ranting at me doesn't help anything.

Ignore the part you don't want to comment on. It's ok, it happens all the time. Eat your cow, cry about your cats, and I'll be over here mocking you for your hypocrisy.

Quzah.

[russotto]

Originally posted by Uryoces
When I want that fresh-brewed flavor in the morning, I reach for Civet Cat (tm)!

You think you're joking.

http://www.ravensbrew.com/NewFiles/kopiluwak.html

[russotto]

Just ignore quzah. He's got a condition known as "vegetarian rage". Basically, the vegetarian experiences dissatisfaction and cravings due to the lack of meat in his diet. Unable, according to his moral code, to satisfy these cravings and often disgusted at himself for feeling them, the vegetarian becomes frustrated, tense, and angry. He finds a target for his frustrations by displacing his shame in his own cravings into anger at meat-eaters for satisfying theirs.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for this condition. Force-feeding or tricking the vegetarian into eating meat satisfies the cravings temporarily, but it only makes the vegetarian feel MORE ashamed of himself (to the point of suicide in extreme cases), and it redoubles his rage when the meat wears off.

[dar512]

Originally posted by russotto
Just ignore quzah. He's got a condition known as "vegetarian rage". [snip]

Unfortunately, there is no cure for this condition. Force-feeding or tricking the vegetarian into eating meat satisfies the cravings temporarily, but it only makes the vegetarian feel MORE ashamed of himself (to the point of suicide in extreme cases), and it redoubles his rage when the meat wears off.

They oughta make a patch for that.


Oh no! I shouldn't have said that. Now we'll all be getting spam for meat patches!

[Dagney]

Spam patches?

It IS sticky meat.

And gross....just utterly gross.

[glatt]

Originally posted by quzah

Besides, who gives a shit if it's "wild caught" or not? So it's fine if they eat a cat if it's "farmed", but not if it's wild? God damn people annoy me.
Quzah.

There's a huge difference. "Wild caught" animals are part of the ecosystem. You know, the web of life, where everything is connected. You tamper with one area of the web enough by over fishing or whatever, and the whole web starts to fall apart. But with farm grown, you have a meat supply that is isolated from the web of life. You can eat to your heart's content without having such a huge impact.

Sure, you have industrial type waste to deal with when you have so much manure like they have in beef or pork feed lots, but it's not as bad as overfishing and causing an entire species to almost go extinct.

Big difference. (Although admittedly not to the creature being eaten. The creature being eaten would probably rather be wild, not farmed.)

[quzah]

Originally posted by russotto
Just ignore quzah. He's got a condition known as "vegetarian rage". Basically, the vegetarian experiences dissatisfaction and cravings due to the lack of meat in his diet.

You apparently suffer from the same condition as Beletseri; blatant stupidity. I'll explain further, below. I'll try and use small words for you. No, it's no trouble, really.

Originally posted by glatt
There's a huge difference. "Wild caught" animals are part of the ecosystem. You know, the web of life, where everything is connected.

You, like russotto, have apparently glossed over the entire point of the message. Yes, I know, he's trolling, but I'll humor him. Once more, in small words:

A life is a life. Dead is dead.

Was that simple enough for the three of you? Go on, ignore this point one more time: Who cares what type of animal it is? It is still dead. Why is it somehow "ok" for Beletseri to feel bad for a cat getting killed, but to be insensed to a cow suffering the same fate?

Oh yeah, sorry. I just must be suffering from "vegetarian rage". I'm so sorry that I'm the only fucking person here who understands the concept of an animal dying.

Dead is dead. Stupid is stupid. See the point? No, of course you won't. I'd say it's ignorance, but at this point, it can't be. I've illustrated the point, what, three times now in this single thread?

So one last time: Cat = tears, cow = hungry, why again? Yeah. I'm the one who's got their thinking screwed around backwards. Stupid me. What was I thinking?

Quzah.

[Beletseri]

I think you need to stop breathing because with every breath you run the risk of breathing in a bug and killing it. A life is a life after all.

Things die all the time, some day so will you. That's the way it is. How we raise them, hunt them, kill them and eat them says something about us and our humanity but life lives on life and we all have our roles in the circle.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Beletseri
I think you need to stop breathing because with every breath you run the risk of breathing in a bug and killing it. A life is a life after all.

Things die all the time, some day so will you. That's the way it is. How we raise them, hunt them, kill them and eat them says something about us and our humanity but life lives on life and we all have our roles in the circle.

Hello again hypocrite. Again you breeze by the point. Let me quote you once more:

Killing the civet cats has really bothered me.

The question I keep asking, and you keep ignoring, is: why? Why does it bother you when cats are killed, but not when say, chickens are killed?

No, go on, ignore it again. You're good at that.

And for the record, never in my life have I breathed in a bug. Not sure where you hang out, but usually huge clouds of insects don't swarm about my face and head. Perhaps you should see a doctor, or hygienist or something about that.

Quzah.

[Beletseri]

The question I keep asking, and you keep ignoring, is: why? Why does it bother you when cats are killed, but not when say, chickens are killed?

I already answered that question. It bothers me because I suspect that they are wild caught and held in small cages indefinately until killed.

Whether it makes sense to you or not makes no difference to me. Wild animals have experience a life of their own making and have, for lack of a better word, expectations of freedom based on their previous existence. It isn't the killing that bothers me so much (for example with hunting), it is the mass rounding up of these animals.

If you had ever experienced the difference between a wild mouse and a lab mouse you might understand what I mean. Animals bred in captivity are different than wild ones. The wild animal when caged is totally stressed and frantic and then over time, despondent. The domestic animal in a cage is at home because that is what it knows.

It isn't the death that is a problem to me, it is the prolonged suffering. And btw, I buy grass-fed beef and free range chicken and their eggs so I am not being hypocritical.

As a side note:
It always surprises me when someone who proclaims a love of animals is so hateful to humans and then expects to be taken seriously enough to answer. That comment is just to say that I don't think your behavior deserves an answer but I have given you one anyway. If it isn't to your liking, tough.

[Beletseri]

Oh and about the bug thing, you have little worms living in your eyelashes and I bet some fall off on occasion and you do breath them in. You probably kill some every time you take a shower too. Are you careful when you walk not to step on a bug? What if you get a cockroach or mouse invasion into your house?

These are all things that Jains have considered long before you. They wear masks over their noses and mouths just to avoid the possibility of taking a life of an insect. They don't walk around very fast either.

I think you are the hypocrite if you don't at least take on the precautions that they take.

[CharlieG]

Originally posted by quzah

...snip...?

So one last time: Cat = tears, cow = hungry, why again? Yeah. I'm the one who's got their thinking screwed around backwards. Stupid me. What was I thinking?

Quzah.

Nah - first, I cry no tears over a civit that gets killed for food, or a cow. Now if it was MY cow, yes, and HAVE. It's my cat, YES.

It comes down to this - if I know and like the individual animal, yes, if I don't, I don't really care. And Yes, I've cried while butchering a steer - ate it anyway. It's like one of my friends - he always named the spring lambs "Lambchop" - to remind his kids where those lambchops come from. I've had beef in the freezer labeled things like "ted" and "Bill"

One day, there was a really annoying animal rights protester here in NYC who was making a pain in the ass out of herself to EVERYONE on the street. I stopped, listened to her, and very calmly and quietly said "You're right, animals do have the same rights as humans. I hunt down and kill animals tha piss me off. " Then I smiled, and let that comment sink in.... Took about 10 seconds for her to realize what I said - the look on her face was PRICELESS as she slowly backed away - they don't have an evil grin that I can find ...

[quzah]

Originally posted by Beletseri
I already answered that question. It bothers me because I suspect that they are wild caught and held in small cages indefinately until killed.

Whether it makes sense to you or not makes no difference to me. Wild animals have experience a life of their own making and have, for lack of a better word, expectations of freedom based on their previous existence. It isn't the killing that bothers me so much (for example with hunting), it is the mass rounding up of these animals.

If you had ever experienced the difference between a wild mouse and a lab mouse you might understand what I mean. Animals bred in captivity are different than wild ones. The wild animal when caged is totally stressed and frantic and then over time, despondent. The domestic animal in a cage is at home because that is what it knows.

So it's fine to be dead, but not fine to be without freedom? But, it's OK to be without freedom, if you have never known it? *shakes head* Whatever.

Originally posted by Beletseri
It isn't the death that is a problem to me, it is the prolonged suffering. And btw, I buy grass-fed beef and free range chicken and their eggs so I am not being hypocritical.

It is to laugh. You do realize that "free range" chickens means only one thing: There has to be some kind of door way in their pen to where they can get outside. This is to say, and often is the case, I can have a barn, with 5000 chickens in it, and as long as there is a door way, say 12 inches, by 12 inches, to a pen outside that is, say three feet by three feet, that my chickens can be labeled as "free range". Yes that is how the free range label works. That is a perfectly valid example of "free range" chickens.

As for grass fed beef, what's that for, so you don't get mad cow? "Farmed" cattle are hardly treated well. You're only trying to fool yourself if you think otherwise. You're an amusing fellow. Pathetic in your own right, but amusing for all the wrong reasons.

Oh, and don't think you're being educational or something about the Jains. I've heard of them years and years ago. The point is, I do what I'm able. You do what you feel like, what lets you sleep easier. I don't eat any animal products because I don't have to. I don't kill anything if at all humanly possible. Yes, I watch where I walk. No, I don't ever kill bugs in my house. No, I don't have mice in my house, never have. I don't kill spiders, mosquitoes, etc. It's just me. I personally don't care what you eat or why you eat it.

I really don't care what you do. But don't be surprised when I pop back up with a comment or two on how stupid your ideals are, or how hypocritical you are.

Quzah.