School or Scam

[Tomas Rueda]

I'm at the verge of thinking that schools are the "Dow-Jones" of the government. Politicians invest tons of money in them (selected by general school-wide grade) so the teachers try all the harder to make students pass a test instead of making them learn for a future

examples are

>longer school period(summer school, some even have year-round school

>more programs for the gifted (actually is just increased amount of work)

>more expectations to students per year. ({to kindergarten kids} Ok, kids. today we are going to learn the planets in space.

>Etc.

[Clodfobble]

I will agree with the notion that standardized testing just causes teachers to "teach the test" and screws over everyone but the lowest common denominator...

But by that same token, "more programs for the gifted" is actually a really, really good thing as far as I'm concerned. They're not just more work, or at least they weren't in the schools I went to, and they definitely enabled me to avoid sitting through any more basic arithmetic "practice tests" every year.

[Slartibartfast]

The pressure to get the kids to pass standardized tests is enormous. I think there is a place for these tests, but too much emphasis is being placed on them.


My biggest fear with public schools is the government treating kids as a target audience that can be sold to big businesses.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...27/lo_vv/53014

Children today are bombarded with millions of commercials as it is. School should be free of this pressure to become happy little consumers.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
School should be free of this pressure to become happy little consumers.

There is a lot to be said for the idea that that is all that public school is for anymore.

[Bullitt]

In public schools nowadays, i know from experience since I'm a high school senior, kids are unknowingly taking part in a new trend of "flash learning". They learn and absorb the information just long enough to pass the test/class/quiz what have you. Then, by the next month, 70% of all the knowledge they supposedly attained is lost because they ahve no reason to keep interest in the subject. From talkin to my grandparents, back in the day they knew that they had to get as much out of their schooling as possible because they had seen what kind of road you can go down when you become just another person in the ignorant masses.
Many kids these days just want the peice of paper that says "Hey you've let the info go in one ear, stay long enough to pass, and out the other" otherwise known as the diploma/degree.
I also know from talking to many college students that all they want is to get a good job and they don't really care about what they learn.
Basically what i'm trying to say is that we need to do somthing fast in order to save these kids from failing themselves. They have the potential to be so much more, but the only motivation they have is to get the grade and end with that.

[DanaC]

That sounds like a very dispiriting environment to try and learn in .

[Lady Sidhe]

Well, I think the fact that they keep lowering the test standards for kids who don't bother to learn english, or attend class sucks. The government is taking Dumbing Down to an art form.... School isn't SUPPOSED to be so simple you can take a test while sleeping. You're supposed to LEARN, not be given the answers.

Sidhe

[elSicomoro]

Ah ah ah! *wags his finger* No child left behind!

[mrnoodle]

I don't have kids, but if the info coming from the news media is correct, public education has become a joke. Little kids are being suspended for "sexual harassment" and expelled for bringing cold medicine into a "zero-tolerance" drug-free zone. Meanwhile, preteen girls are parading their shit around like Britney and boys are wearing their pants around their ankles like someone's prison bitch. They bully each other into committing acts of violence while their teachers hand out condoms and generally spend all their time trying to keep from being sued by the so-called "parents". That is, those teachers who aren't molesting their charges. As a result, X% of high school seniors can't read at a 6th-grade level or find their hometown on a map.

Conservative pundits say public school is a liberal social experiment gone wrong, that the left isn't interested in education as much as preaching tolerance and eco-friendliness and equal grades for all kids, regardless of their performance (can't have "competition" you know).

Liberals say conservatives won't give up their blood-for-oil money for more internet workstations and decent teacher salaries. In fact, conservatives would rather see free school lunches disappear than have to cut back on Star Wars.

Who's right? Maybe all of em. All I know is, I'm home-schooling my future kids if I can't afford to send them to private school.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by sycamore
Ah ah ah! *wags his finger* No child left behind!

There is no excuse for refusal to learn. You don't wanna work your brain, then eat my dust, D-boy! :p


I mean, on the serious side, what's the point of studying your ass off if Dickie Dum-Dum is going to get a decent grade because the curve is so extreme that you could NOT take the test and pass...or because the teacher doesn't want to hurt his feelings by failing him. We're rewarding intentional stupidity and laziness.

...All this talk about how it'll damage his self-esteem if we give him a bad grade...It SHOULD. A person SHOULD feel stupid for not studying. It all comes back to responsibility for one's own actions. Those who work their asses off should be rewarded. Those who don't, shouldn't be.

So THERE. *sticks out my tongue* nyah, nyah, nyah....

Last Fall I tutored a 5th grade girl who was having trouble with math. One day she brought home a note which read as follows:

"Congratulations! Your scores in math have qualified you for Paradox Elementary's after school math program. You will be staying after school each Tuesday and Thursday for one hour to work on exciting math projects!"

This kid was getting an "F" in math and she knew it. She couldn't figure out what they were congratulating her for, though. That was one perplexed little girl!

And for all the after school "enrichment" she was supposedly getting, no one had figured out her basic problem - she didn't know the multiplication tables! She was a bright kid, but this lack had kept her stalled for both the 4th and 5th grade. Our education system has become a pathetic joke.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
All this talk about how it'll damage his self-esteem if we give him a bad grade...It SHOULD. A person SHOULD feel stupid for not studying. It all comes back to responsibility for one's own actions. Those who work their asses off should be rewarded. Those who don't, shouldn't be.

Don't try to tag on little kids, though...they don't know any better.

[Skunks]

Admittedly, my sample size is very small, but all signs indicate that public schools are a waste of time.

At the moment I'm pulling a 3.83 or so GPA at the <a href="http://www.uoregon.edu/">University of Oregon</a>, having spent a sum total of four years (half of K, 1, 2; all of 4, 5; half of 6) in public school. The rest of the time I took courses at the community college extremely part time (maybe one a term, mostly personal-interest computer graphics stuff) or was "unschooled" (slacking off.)

[DanaC]

Admittedly, my sample size is very small, but all signs indicate that public schools are a waste of time

Only if the government of the day is so idealogically opposed to spending money on furthering the goals of ordinary workingclass kids that schools are underfunded and disregarded.

There is a very easy way to make schools do better. Spend money on them. Pay teachers enough and pay enough of them that their morale is high. Fund the shcools heavily enough that even the poorest ofthem holds to a high standard of equipment and available tuition. Make sure enough funding is put in that the schools are not oversubscribed....It really isnt that tough

I have had this argument with a friend of mine in th states and been told that " Money has been poured into the education system and it does no good. The money gets wasted"
In that case America must have a different definition of what constitutes pouring money but because last I looked there simply wasnt the same level of funding going into state schools in the States as there is in much of Europe.

Now I dont hold up my country's schools as the way to go. We send our kids to school too early here , and we start teaching them to write before their litttle hands are fully able to manage a giant crayon, and alas we have fallen into teh trap of setting up league tables which are driving some schools into a sinkschool state whilst the better performing schools get even better, but the difference between state schools and private schools is not as vast as I imagine it is over there.

On the continent, Germany and France have better schools. But then again they spend more on their state education than either America or Britain.

Tax your people. Spend the tax on providing services including decent education for your citizenry.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by sycamore


Don't try to tag on little kids, though...they don't know any better.

It doesn't apply to little kids....little kids usually LOVE to learn.