Why do we need to keep talking about religion?

[Riddil]

I hope to avoid turning this into a flame-war. I actually don't want to argue one side or another. But these past few years I'm beginning to wonder more and more frequently... why is there still so much talk about religion?

A lot of people rejoiced when Palin headed back to Alaska. "Finally we can start forgetting about her". No matter if you liked Palin or were glad to see her go, most people understand the logic: if there's something you consider inconsequential then it's best just to "forget about it".

Why can't people have the same attitude toward society's wish to impose our own personal view of the "right answer to the big question"? Most people don't feel the need to argue til they're blue in the face about other parts of philosophy, so why this topic? I'm not only talking about the religious zealots... it seems atheist zealots are increasingly vehement. We've all seen comments threads on fark like this one.

But why does it matter? If you're religious why not use India as a model, and let your neighbor have their own faith? Go feel contented with your unerring faith in God while you pass out your religious fliers. And if you're atheist feel content living free of the burdens of religion while you throw away the fliers the religious folks hand out. Why does it ALWAYS turn into a holy war?

After almost three years of living in China I've really had my eyes opened how an entire people can have complete impartiality toward religion. It's funny, when I was home last holidays I went with my parents to their church, and the pastor began talking about Christian persecution in China, and how we need more resolve to "penetrate the Great Wall".

I found it funny, because the truth is that the government and the people really couldn't care less about Christianity, or any other religion. It's just that the government takes extreme measures because that's the way they handle *all* groups. I live in Shanghai, and the government continually steps in to kill all attempts to set up an amateur soccer league. They're not fearful of soccer and fight to deny it to their people. They just fear any organization with a strong membership that's not loyal to the party.

And the local people... they're not hungry for religion. There's access to churches in even some of the smallest of towns. They're just very small and overlooked because most people really couldn't care less.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not citing China as an example of progressive cultural philosophy. I just think it makes common sense. I'd be overjoyed if we could get to the point when we didn't have to worry about not only did our President go to church, but does he REALLY believe in God?

What does it matter?

My parents are part of the Palin nation. My Dad was continually sending out emails claiming how wonderful Palin was for President. But why? If I was a school principal and I needed to pick a new football coach, would I interview coaches and ask football questions, or would I interview coaches and ask them about the rapture?

It's silly. I vote we just forget about it, and move on. Both sides.

PS: if you're Christian and you're trying to spread the word in China... please, don't be silly and try to lug 500 heavy Bibles through customs. They'll be nicked, the same way if you tried to lug 500 identical copies of anything through customs. Seriously, just put a copy of the Bible on a USB key, get to China and have a local print shop churn out 20,000 Bibles for the same cost you paid for your 500. Then stand on the street-corner and hand out as many as you want. Much easier.

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by Riddil

If you're religious why not use India as a model, and let your neighbor have their own faith?

Bad example. Horrible.

Anti-Christian attacks flare in India

10,000 Christians living in refugee camps in Kandhamal

Hindu extremists' reward to kill Christians

Not sure why you picked India, particularly, but it's not the best place to go looking for your post-religious nirvana.

[ZenGum]

It keeps coming up for two reasons.
Firstly, many religions instruct their followers that it is their duty to convert the rest of the world to The Path. Hence they get out and push pamphlets etc.
Secondly, non-religious types find it troubling when religious types get their hands on the levers of power and use those levers to push what the non-religious types consider to be a load of nonsense, and often quite dangerous nonsense.
Conflict is inevitable, but violent conflict is (sometimes) avoidable.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You started it. :p

Because zealots are dangerous, whether they are for or against, anything.

[Cicero]

I'm actually missing the flame wars on subjects outside of politics. Yeppers.......Where's RK when you need him?

[classicman]

I was hoping you'd step in for him Cic.

[Cicero]

Screw you classic! You don't know what you are talking about! Especially if it's about where I step!! Damn you, you slack jawed idiot!!
How's that?

[classicman]

Outstanding! I knew I could count on you ya ____ ___ ___ _______!

[Riddil]

Meh, *maybe* India isn't the best example, but I still have to think it's not as bad as it sounds. Consider that it wasn't long ago that I read a news article that some rednecks gassed a nursery in a mosque while it was in session, and sickened a bunch of Islamic kids. All this happened in Ohio. Based on that news article should we now deduce that all of America is a terrorist state?

India is maaaaasive. Sure you'll find examples. But even if it's not an idyllic paradise (and rarely when you talk about religion do you find find a bonafide utopia), then I think the overall point is valid.

Why can't we all just get along?

[smoothmoniker]

10,000 people displaced from their homes is not an isolated incident.

[Riddil]

Ok, fine. Inda sucks. We should declare another Holy War on India and liberate the Christians. Instead of using India, let's talk about... oh, I don't know, Canada.

Go to Canada, be what you want, worship whatever golden calf you want, and we can all be buddies and watch hockey together.

/end insert

Happy now?

[Griff]

Aren't the Canookacadians having a problem with folks trying to implement Sharia' law?

[Clodfobble]

Not to mention the ever-trying-to-secede Quebec. Just because they're not religiously-based doesn't mean culture wars have been eliminated.

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by Riddil

Ok, fine. Inda sucks. We should declare another Holy War on India and liberate the Christians.

Yes, way to not overreact to my post. A war of liberation was exactly what I was suggesting.

Don't get your panties in a wad just because your peaceful example turned out to be a war zone. I suspect the same thing will be true of any nation you choose to use as an example.

The only exception are places where the dominant religion is a homogenized civil religion, that makes no actual claims about the nature of God. If you think tradition, ceremony, and exhortation to general good acts are the sum total of religion, then there is no reason why everyone can't get along. But, if you think religion makes real claims about the nature of God, claims that can be true or false, and that those claims have real significance in how we ought to live, then conflict about those ideas is inevitable.

It's kind of like communism - you're free to argue it on the merits, but you'll have to do so without the benefit of an example. It turns out to not be very compatible with how people actually are.

[lookout123]

Damn you and your logical-ness SM.