Obama: "I'm ready to negotiate with you, Iran." Iran: "Fuck you."

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

What are you talking about? What do you want to see from "the American Public" that you aren't seeing?

I want people to wake up and realize that the BS protests on Wall Street are meaningless compared to the larger issues of this country. They are a nice liberal touchy-feely distraction, but they do NOT address the larger issues.

When you have ass-holes like Mike Moore showing up and spouting off solidarity with the protestors, or some stupid ass rap star, all of whom make millions of dollars of the Capitalistic system that these idiots are protesting against it puts it all in perspective. Why are they not protesting in front of the Hollywood studios? Why are they not protesting in front of Huffington's house, or Al Gore's house? These mother fuckers all got rich off the same Capitalistic system these idiots are protesting against.

I will gather up some telling video of the solidarity of these fools and let you be the judge.....

[TheMercenary]

They only protest against the "rich" they don't know or despise, not those that they admire....

[glatt]

Oh, I thought you had a point to make about terrorism.

I skimmed an interesting article the other day. It was basically saying that when we shifted our homeland security resources to preventing terrorism, we shifted them away from inspecting incoming cargo for pests, and in the last decade we have had a handful of pests that could cost a couple different agriculture industries hundreds of millions of dollars.

I skimmed another story that was making the point that drug violence from Mexico was a much bigger potential threat to the US than Muslim terrorists.

So I agree with your statement that the larger issues are being ignored. But it has nothing to do with the Wall Street protesters.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

Oh, I thought you had a point to make about terrorism.

I skimmed an interesting article the other day. It was basically saying that when we shifted our homeland security resources to preventing terrorism, we shifted them away from inspecting incoming cargo for pests, and in the last decade we have had a handful of pests that could cost a couple different agriculture industries hundreds of millions of dollars.

I skimmed another story that was making the point that drug violence from Mexico was a much bigger potential threat to the US than Muslim terrorists.

So I agree with your statement that the larger issues are being ignored. But it has nothing to do with the Wall Street protesters.

I guess my bottom line is that the whole Wall Street protesters have become a circus side show of the bigger issues of what ails us. And the deeper you look into the protest movement the more comical it becomes.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I want people to wake up and realize that the BS protests on Wall Street are meaningless compared to the larger issues of this country. They are a nice liberal touchy-feely distraction, but they do NOT address the larger issues.

You seriously want Americans to die since a few Americans are not focusing on the issues YOU want them to focus on? No offense, but that's fucked up. Very fucked up.

Populations in general will never focus on the most important issues at hand for multiple reasons. One, there will always be disagreements about what the most important issues are. There are multiple issues that can legitimately argued to be the "most important" (income disparity is one of them BTW), but we will never know which one is really the "most important" without hindsight and ability to travel multiple parallel universes.

Two, people are emotional and biased creatures. Populations will always focus on issues that appeal to their biased nature instead of issues that will actually help them most. This is seen throughout history. It is not just Americans, but EVERYONE. Also, our emotions gives us a biased perspective of the world around us, making some issues, ones that appeal to us, seem more (or less) important than they really are by concentrating on certain factors which may or may not be what you think they are.

Remember, a lot of these OWSers are people that are jobless. The most pertinent and emotional issue to them right now is the economy and employment and they are using Wall Street as the lone scapegoat.


Also, a terrorist attack won't do shit to shift American's attention to "important" issues. All a terrorist attack will do is cause a panic and make us spend MORE money on precautions that will make us feel more safe, but actually not do much. Our government should have a better idea of how to protect our country and will do what is necessary whether it has public support or not.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You seriously want Americans to die since a few Americans are not focusing on the issues YOU want them to focus on? No offense, but that's fucked up. Very fucked up.

Not what I said. Certainly not what I was trying to convey.

Populations in general will never focus on the most important issues at hand for multiple reasons. One, there will always be disagreements about what the most important issues are. There are multiple issues that can legitimately argued to be the "most important" (income disparity is one of them BTW), but we will never know which one is really the "most important" without hindsight and ability to travel multiple parallel universes.

No need to "travel multiple parallel universes." The big problems are pretty obvious.

Two, people are emotional and biased creatures. Populations will always focus on issues that appeal to their biased nature instead of issues that will actually help them most. This is seen throughout history. It is not just Americans, but EVERYONE. Also, our emotions gives us a biased perspective of the world around us, making some issues, ones that appeal to us, seem more (or less) important than they really are by concentrating on certain factors which may or may not be what you think they are.

I guess if you want to get all esoteric about it.... is this psychology class? {joking already!}

Remember, a lot of these OWSers are people that are jobless. The most pertinent and emotional issue to them right now is the economy and employment and they are using Wall Street as the lone scapegoat.

No doubt, but they have their weapon pointed in the wrong direction.

Also, a terrorist attack won't do shit to shift American's attention to "important" issues. All a terrorist attack will do is cause a panic and make us spend MORE money on precautions that will make us feel more safe, but actually not do much. Our government should have a better idea of how to protect our country and will do what is necessary whether it has public support or not.

The point is that we have already lost sight of 9/11, since that was the last time we were actually unified about anything. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, relax.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The point is that we have already lost sight of 9/11, since that was the last time we were actually unified about anything.

Ideally, I do seriously agree with you. But for unification to occur, something really bad usually has to happen. There is a reason we have an evolutionary response to unify in threatening situations and that unification isn't going to remain after the threat is gone though. I would prefer our country not be constantly threatened by some outside source and sacrifice the sense of unification.

I don't see terrorist threats as something that should unify the country anyways. I'm not downplaying the threat in general, I do realize the seriousness of it, but I see unification over a terrorist threat as something that can only backfire. Terrorist threats should be dealt with by CT measures, which seem to be Black Ops, drones (maybe), etc, not armies and definitely not by the general population. Once the general population and congress gets into it, CT seems to get much less effective.

[BigV]

Fuck unification, ideally. Monocultures are dangerously fragile. They're productive in direct proportion to their narrowness. They're susceptible to catastrophic failure from a single threat. They're rigid (How did that Maginot Line work out? Certainly a well defined unitary defense against an direct threat) You want unification of thought, of action? That's the Borg. Humans don't function well or long that way.

I pass.

[piercehawkeye45]

Unification doesn't have to mean a single train of thought, but more just a strong sense of community.

[Happy Monkey]

The unity after 9/11 wasn't lost, it was squandered.

[ZenGum]

And here is where I think a lot of Americans are making a very bad assessment of the relative importance of things.

Assume the goal is to ensure the life, liberty and (opportunity to pursue) happiness of the US people.

Terrorists have killed ... ten thousand, in total, ever? How many have cigarettes killed? Car crashes?

Meanwhile, multinational corporations have effectively bought control of your government and are manipulating it for their own benefit. They send you to war, pillage your treasury. Your government now routinely spies on you and strip-searches you, and are taking more and more steps towards detention without trial, torture and killing.

I don't know about you guys, but I am FAR more scared of the trend toward corruption of the US government than I ever have been of any terrorist organisation.

Oh I actually came in to say, man, those Iranians are a bunch of dickheads. That is the sort of thing that happens when a group of religious fundamentalists get control of a government.

[Griff]

Our economic situation is a much greater threat to the life, liberty, and property of most Americans than terrorists in Yemen or nutters in tar baby of the day Uganda. Is Presidential power too heady for restraint? After a while it just seems hard to say no.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

And here is where I think a lot of Americans are making a very bad assessment of the relative importance of things.

Assume the goal is to ensure the life, liberty and (opportunity to pursue) happiness of the US people.

Well, it is, but understand that it is only about "the US people". The rest can fend for themselves.

Terrorists have killed ... ten thousand, in total, ever? How many have cigarettes killed? Car crashes?

Less than most all other countries. Ciggarette smoking has significantly been reduced in the US; Our car crash requirements are among the highest in the world. So yea, as long as we are free to manipulate statistics, we are doing quite well compared to other countries.

Meanwhile, multinational corporations have effectively bought control of your government and are manipulating it for their own benefit.

Democracy is a bitch.

They send you to war

Well, no, politicians did that. Not Corporations. I don't know where you got that idea, but our government made all that happen, not some mystery shadow corporation..

pillage your treasury.

The God Damm Government is doing that for us.... not some mystery Corp....

Your government now routinely spies on you and strip-searches you, and are taking more and more steps towards detention without trial, torture and killing.

Horse shit. I travel all the time. None of that has happened to me or anyone I know. You are focusing on 0.00001% of any person who travels.

I don't know about you guys, but I am FAR more scared of the trend toward corruption of the US government than I ever have been of any terrorist organisation.

I am much more fearful of a runaway government, unchecked and un-regulated.

[ZenGum]

Well, no, politicians did that. Not Corporations. I don't know where you got that idea, but our government made all that happen, not some mystery shadow corporation..

The God Damm Government is doing that for us.... not some mystery Corp....

Sir, corporations have long since taken more-or-less control of your government. They have nibbled your country out from under you while you (personally) were defending it from terrorists.

Funny how pretty much every thread about Libya, Iran, Iraq, etc ends up arguing US politics. It's a mostly American board here.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The God Damm Government is doing that for us.... not some mystery Corp....

Strange how he never said that when wacko extremists - the worst type of conservative - were the government that was massacring American soldiers in Mission Accomplished for political aspirations. When wackos all but surrendered to the Taliban in Afghanistan. When wackos were kidnapping foreigners and justifying it using pretty expressions such as extraordinary rendition. When wackos were enriching the richest at the expense of all other Americans. When wackos refuse to prosecute Enron until all but embarrassed by the state of Oklahoma. When wackos refused to prosecute those who intentionally created a CA energy crisis. When wackos let First Energy operate a nuclear power plant with a potential Three Mile Island problem only because they ran a $400,000 Bush Cheney fund raiser. Same plant that was so mismanaged as to eat through its critically important containment dome. When wackos undermined what makes America great - science and research - by even destroying stem cell, quantum physics, space and advance energy research. Obama finally had to rescue the AMS experiment. And stop having White House lawyers rewriting science papers. These guys so hated American workers as to even stifle hybrid automobile products. Because profits are more important that things that once made America great.

Why did wackos destroy the US Space program by first not making any decisions, and then creating a disaster - Constellation, Orion, and Ares? Why did wackos attack so many space research projects? Why did wackos promote an obvious disaster only for political purposes - Man to Mars. And almost destroy the Hubble until a near revolt among the astronaut corp reversed that decision. Why did wackos says "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". And therefore create today's economic calamity. Why did wackos all but protect bin Laden? All but protect Madoff. Why did wackos try to create a shooting war with China over a silly spy plane? Why did wackos do exactly what the Norwegian foreign minister predicted - destroy the Oslo Accords? Why did wackos make America's popularity throughout the world the lowest in post WWII history? Even turn a 90% popularity number in one of America's closest allies to less than 10% - and wackos said this was good.

Why does TheMercenary ignore all this to blame those who are not wacko extremists? Because Limbaugh et al tell him how to think. We have met the enemy and he is us. Forty years later, that same problem still exists. Those who most created all these problems are now blaming all others rather than look in a mirror.

Repeatedly ask TheMercenary to explain all these disasters. He will do everything to avoid your questions. So keep asking. Get him to admit to those mistakes. Or let him show all why most of America's problems are directly traceable to wackos who call everyone else a liberal.

Just because Beck, Hannity, et al are proven right by insulting all others does not mean TheMercenary is also right. Why do many disaster traceable to wacko extremists? Because "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

We must cut spending by $1 trillion because wackos lied about Mission Accomplished - which then cost $1 trillion. So everyone but wackos (who lied about Saddam's WMDs) created our budget problems. We who are not wacko extremists should feel so guilty.