Welfare to kids of illegals in LA County costs $276 million per year

[MaggieL]

No illegals here, no...

Originally Posted by http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=14620282

Births at [Mercy Suburban] hospital have nearly doubled in the past two years to a total of 822 in 2004. About 26 percent of mothers are undocumented immigrants from Mexico who are uninsured, Barabas said.

Originally Posted by http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=14529659

Ketterlinus estimates that uncompensated care costs [Montgomery Hospital Medical Center] between $10 million and $14 million each year, a sizeable chunk of its $100 million operating budget.
Bad debt at MHMC has risen steadily over the past few years, according to an analysis by Ketterlinus and Edward Ladely, Montgomery Hospital's chief financial officer, from $4 million in 2002 to an estimated $7 million loss this year.
The trend is partly attributed to the growing number of undocumented immigrants who live in Norristown, she said.

Originally Posted by http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=16600929

The women targeted for the program primarily are undocumented Hispanic women in Norristown and undocumented Asian women in the Abington area.
Pregnant women who are citizens of the United States can obtain medical assistance and qualify for other prenatal programs offered through the health department.

[billybob]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

A simple review of the immigration threads makes it abundantly clear who specializes in personal attacks and who does and doesn't answer simple questions. It must be incredibly frustrating for you that your seemigly endless calumny hasn't provoked me into responding in kind.

What is incredibly frustrating for me is that one loud-mouthed bitch is determined to be as obnoxious as possible because someone dared to ask her to back up her prejudices.

If you could just come up with a bit more substance instead of wittering about New Zealand, and answer the straight questions when put to you, you might be interesting., You seem to be capable of expressing your thoughts in an articulate manner in between the trolling and the racism.
Such a shame that you are determined to bring this debate down to a mud slinging match.

[billybob]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

No illegals here, no...

Yet another MaggieL distortion. I point out that her state has a quarter of the average latino population, she repeatedly accuses me of claiming that there are no illegals in Pa.

If youi can't support your position with facts, please don't tell lies. I'll call you on them every time.

As to the quotes that you added, I urge all readers to read the articles in full.MaggieL would rather you only read the bits that she thinks support her story, but the articles have far more balance.

Originally Posted by billybob

What is incredibly frustrating for me is that one loud-mouthed bitch is determined to be as obnoxious as possible because someone dared to ask her to back up her prejudices.

If you could just come up with a bit more substance instead of wittering about New Zealand, and answer the straight questions when put to you, you might be interesting., You seem to be capable of expressing your thoughts in an articulate manner in between the trolling and the racism.
Such a shame that you are determined to bring this debate down to a mud slinging match.

LOL, your last line is so funny when you read the first sentence!
You have no credibility just based on this one post.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by billybob

I point out that her state has a quarter of the average latino population, she repeatedly accuses me of claiming that there are no illegals in Pa.

I didn't say you said that; I was being sarcastic about what you actually did claim. Everybody here can go back and see exactly what you did say (in this thread and the other immigration thread), in an attempt to impeach my opinion and impugn my motives. And most of the folks here are familiar with the use of the "innocent question" as a means of making a statement or tool of misdirection.

In fact we do not have as many Hispanic illegals here as they do in California (as a percentage of the population statewide), but that does not mean the problem of illegal immigration is, to use your own words, "a continent away"; it's right here in my backyard. Statistics by state usually mean very little; US states vary too much in size and situation to be useful as statistical categories in most situations.

You ask for exact costs of largely unquantifiable things not to make the argument more factual but rather in an attempt to move the argument to one about price; the next move is likely to point out how impoverished the illegals are and how ungenerous we are not to succor the poor. Maybe you can find somebody else to go down that road with you.

[billybob]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

You ask for exact costs of largely unquantifiable things not to make the argument more factual but rather in an attempt to move the argument to one about price; the next move is likely to point out how impoverished the illegals are and how ungenerous we are not to succor the poor.

Not only do you ignore the hard questions,and distort my answers, you are now trying to distort what I could say next!

I'm impressed! I've never come across it before, but you appear to be a complete, total and unspoiled idiot! we should have you stuffed and put on display at the Smithsonian!

[Ibby]

...I'm surely not the only one who noticed that billybob completely avoided anything relating to the issue at all in that last post, instead purely going for the personal attacks he seems to look down on so much. I guess personal attacks are only unintellectual and pointless when they're directed against him?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I guess personal attacks are only unintellectual and pointless when they're directed against him?

Possibly. We'll have to wait until somebody tries one.

[mjohncoady]

This is the that site bills itself as "a friendly little coffee shop..?"

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by billybob

...you are now trying to distort what I could say next!

No, I'm reacting to an attempt to change the subject. Obviously I can't distort something you haven't yet said.

But I can certainly resist your introduction of yet another straw man.

What personal direct cash costs I might be able to prove as a result of burdens placed on government services here by illegal immigrants are irrelevant to my standing to insist that the principles of our law be observed.

It's not that your "what does it cost you personally" question is "hard"; it's that it's pointless and misdirecting. I refer you to my earlier analogy to calculating the personal dollar cost of park vandalism. Just as onerous to calculate, and just irrelevant to the principles involved.

But if you like numbers, refer back: Twenty-six percent of deliveries at Mercy Suburban (about two or three miles from here) are to illegal immigrant mothers, and will end up being be paid for by the other patients at the hospital. No wonder MHMC (the other hospital in town; there used to be three) is relocating; Mercy will end up picking up their ER and maternity load too. What will happen when Mercy throws in the towel?

NZ has the right idea with that new law declaring that children born in New Zealand aren't automatically citizens unless at least one parent is, and I think it's time we passed legislation clarifying the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment; obviously children born to illegals can't be "under the jurisdiction" of the US since they haven't submitted to it.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by mjohncoady

This is the that site bills itself as "a friendly little coffee shop..?"

It used to be...then it got connected to the Internet. :-) See the history page.

[charlene]

Originally Posted by mjohncoady

This is the that site bills itself as "a friendly little coffee shop..?"

That's what I thought when I signed up, too,mjohncoady.

I'm sure there are many of us that read the threads but do not respond.

I expected that one person makes an intelligent comment, another adds their 2 cents, and the banter goes back and forth in a civilized manner.

I guess I didn't read MaggieL's responses closely enough to notice that she starts off the mud-slinging and 'the rest' just let her go until she gets in over her head and starts yelling about personal attacks. As far as I can see, billybob just responded in kind, but now, he's the bad guy....go figure.

[MaggieL]

It's so nice to have a sock puppet. :-)

[billybob]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

No, I'm reacting to an attempt to change the subject. Obviously I can't distort something you haven't yet said.

.

Helllo....earth to planet MaggieL..........You just did.

The truth and your good self appear to be total strangers.

Nobody is trying to change the subject here except MaggieL. Every time I ask the forum for an answer, she dives in and diverts attention.

I ask again, MaggieL . How many illegals did the INS remove from your town last year?

I ask again how much has it cost you personally to accomodate the illegal immigrants in your state?

I ask again, how does employing illegals on the black market differ from employing Americans on the black market?

And while I'm asking questions for you to duck, why is it not okay to ask you to put a dollar value on the issues, when that is exactly what the author of the artuicle at the top of this thread has done?

I'll repeat my position on the article at the top of this thread, just so that you can have another try at debating it instead of shit-slinging.

The article refers to the costs associated with the care of Americian citizens whose parents are illegal immigrants.American citizens. MaggieL would doubtless like a law similar to that which exists in the country that I currently live in, but at the moment, it doesn't exist, and as the article states,

"What I want to make clear is the children we aid are legally eligible to be aided," Christensen said. "They are the children of undocumented parents, but they themselves are not undocumented. They were born in this country."

This thread is based on a distorted set of facts. These people are entitled to be in the US, and the story is dead in the water.Right alongside MaggieL's rather desperate claim that 26% of the American citiizens born in her local hospital are somehow inferior to the other 74%.

[billybob]

Originally Posted by charlene

That's what I thought when I signed up, too,mjohncoady.

I'm sure there are many of us that read the threads but do not respond.

I expected that one person makes an intelligent comment, another adds their 2 cents, and the banter goes back and forth in a civilized manner.

I guess I didn't read MaggieL's responses closely enough to notice that she starts off the mud-slinging and 'the rest' just let her go until she gets in over her head and starts yelling about personal attacks. As far as I can see, billybob just responded in kind, but now, he's the bad guy....go figure.

Your opinion doesn't count,charlene, you're not an American.

Wait a minute, yes you are.

Nevermind, I'm sure that if MAggieL doesn't like it, she'll find a different way of discounting it.