Transgender Second Grader

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by R2D3

Yes. Fucketh thou, thee fuckiest fuck fuck of the Kingdom of Fucktitude.

I've seen you. You're like many others, cry because you're wealthy, tell the world what is right, yet you don't contribute to helping anyone, you don't lend a hand, you don't do much but wallow in your sadness over what you could have done if you had used your powers for good instead of evil.

A boring lot.

How would you know what the people here contribute to their society? Do you think they post every little thing here so that wankers like you can come and criticize them for it? Do you think the people here need to martyr themselves for the approval of worms like you?

I don't think so.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by R2D3

Yes. Fucketh thou, thee fuckiest fuck fuck of the Kingdom of Fucktitude.

I've seen you. You're like many others, cry because you're wealthy, tell the world what is right, yet you don't contribute to helping anyone, you don't lend a hand, you don't do much but wallow in your sadness over what you could have done if you had used your powers for good instead of evil.

A boring lot.

*looks over shoulder* but,but i thought the interwebz were anonymous. how did you know it was me?

[Aliantha]

Just one more note on the pamphlet thing.

If schools can send home brochures about the local dance classes or sports or whatever, I don't really see what the difference is if they're informing parents of other changes in the school.

[R2D3]

Originally Posted by R2D3

The number of children born "intersexual" and the subsequent decision of a doctor to perform surgery (for aesthetic or social purposes) to "assign" a gender is much higher than many would ever know. This can lead to gender confusion, as you can guess; some kids notice it earlier especially in these days of much more openness about gender issues.
I don't find the article or issue all that surprising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A843176

[R2D3]

Originally Posted by lookout123

*looks over shoulder* but,but i thought the interwebz were anonymous. how did you know it was me?

Me lurk you long time. Well, not you in 'ticular.

[lookout123]

so, what exactly does that have to do with this? the issue isn't whether or not the kid feels something. it is whether or not we expect schools to make concessions because one kid, one very young kid, feels different.

[Aliantha]

But what concessions are they making? They're informing the parents - which is consideration in my opinion. They're advising the student to use the unisex toilets instead of having to make the choice of boy or girl.

The only concession is to allow him to wear a girls uniform, but even that could be viewed as his right anyway. I doubt you'd find any school specifying that girls have to wear girls uniforms and vice versa for the boys, even though it's implied. So if that's the case, there's really no concession there either.

[lookout123]

most schools that require uniforms are very specific about what is allowed for boys/girls right down to length of hair and color of pants.

maybe my opinion on this is tainted because i have serious doubts about the origin of this kid's gender concerns. he's a kid. kids are always confused and curious. that doesn't mean you have to salute everything they run up the flagpole. my opinion is that if the kid sat his parents down and told them he wanted to be a girl, they should have been compassionate and non-judgemental and told him that's ok, but for now he's a boy and needs to live as a boy. when he is older and more capable of understanding the ramifications of this, then they can explore the possibilities, but now? doesn't make sense to me.

[euphoriatheory]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Aliantha here. They're not just wasting money to accomodate a kid. They're informing the parents about what's going on. My high school sent home a bunch of literature to parents when a fellow student brought a gun in too--it's about being informative and honest, not about catering to that individual. I'm sure it wasn't the goal of the kid in question to get the school system to waste a bunch of money sending out letters, and no doubt parents would throw a fit if their kid was in the class with Joe/sephine and they were not informed of the change at all.


(And just in case anyone caught this, I'll clarify--I've been to public schools, been homeschooled and went to a private high school... I'm not just being inconsistent in any lies!)

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by lookout123

most schools that require uniforms are very specific about what is allowed for boys/girls right down to length of hair and color of pants.

maybe my opinion on this is tainted because i have serious doubts about the origin of this kid's gender concerns. he's a kid. kids are always confused and curious. that doesn't mean you have to salute everything they run up the flagpole. my opinion is that if the kid sat his parents down and told them he wanted to be a girl, they should have been compassionate and non-judgemental and told him that's ok, but for now he's a boy and needs to live as a boy. when he is older and more capable of understanding the ramifications of this, then they can explore the possibilities, but now? doesn't make sense to me.

I get what you're saying lookout, but if our society wasn't so judgemental of people who choose to be different (or simply just are different), there would be no ramifications and I think that's the point the myself and others are trying to promote. Allow it, and bust one more barrier for those kids who have to pretend they're something they're not till they're old enough to know what they are.

I don't know about you, but I always knew I was a girl who liked boys. Why is it so hard for people to accept that most kids do know what they are.

In fact, I'd go further even and say that if our society weren't so stifling, there'd be a lot more kids out there who'd choose to dress other than how society says they should.

[Aliantha]

And of course i don't mean wearing batman outfits because it's fun.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by lookout123

most schools that require uniforms are very specific about what is allowed for boys/girls right down to length of hair and color of pants.

maybe my opinion on this is tainted because i have serious doubts about the origin of this kid's gender concerns. he's a kid. kids are always confused and curious. that doesn't mean you have to salute everything they run up the flagpole. my opinion is that if the kid sat his parents down and told them he wanted to be a girl, they should have been compassionate and non-judgemental and told him that's ok, but for now he's a boy and needs to live as a boy. when he is older and more capable of understanding the ramifications of this, then they can explore the possibilities, but now? doesn't make sense to me.

As a parent, some lessons I *tell* to my son. Some lessons I *show* him. Some lessons I leave for him to discover on his own. Of the three, the third one is the most potent teaching method. It's not always appropriate. "Don't play in the street" is a tell lesson--the stakes are too high to permit an error. How to ride a skateboard is a show lesson--at least at the beginning--he's way better than me now. How to get along with his peers is mostly a (series of) self discovery lessons.

The three methods are not mutually exclusive, of course. And parental temperament plays a big factor in this kind of social dynamic. I prefer the self discovery angle, but not exclusively. Others here have posted their preference for a much more authoritarian stance, mercy and Radar are a couple of examples that come to mind.

I see the parents taking this third track. They may also be doing (or have done) the others too. Where's the harm? What are the stakes, the cost of failure? Pretty low in my estimate. That's a good candidate for learning on their own.

[DanaC]

Kids at that age have very clear ideas about whether they're a boy or a girl in my experience. The fact that this child's identity doesn't match his physiology is creating some difficulties. If he was very clear that he was a boy there would be no problem. Unfortunately he is very clear he isn't and that is causing problems. If he was five years olde we would barely question his knowledge of himself, but we assume that boys know they're boys and girls know theyre girls at this early age.

[Sheldonrs]

For the record, I knew I was gay before I knew what gay was.

How many of you had crushes on the opposite sex when you were little? How many had crushes on a teacher of the opposite sex then?

Anyone who thinks don't have more than a few clues about what's what are either stupid or..well, actually they are just stupid.
And shame on you for thinking a childs life is OK to force inot a neat little box just to make it easier on you.

[DanaC]

Well said Sheldon