Osama Bin Laden is Dead!!!

[dmg1969]

From an article in The Washington Post titled "How a Detainee Became an Asset"...

"These scenes provide previously unpublicized details about the transformation of the man known to U.S. officials as KSM from an avowed and truculent enemy of the United States into what the CIA called its "preeminent source" on al-Qaeda. This reversal occurred after Mohammed was subjected to simulated drowning and prolonged sleep deprivation, among other harsh interrogation techniques. "

"KSM, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate or incomplete," according to newly unclassified portions of a 2004 report by the CIA's then-inspector general released Monday by the Justice Department."

Link to the entire artcle:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009082804015

[tw]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

From an article in The Washington Post titled "How a Detainee Became an Asset"...

Information was so good that it took almost ten years to understand it? Of course not. Posted was a half story. Reality was so buried in myths and lies as to be all but useless. It took almost ten years and tens of millions of dollars to separate reality from the lies. Meanwhile, those who did not use torture had truth in less than one year - often in less than one month. Fine dinners more effective at extracting truths. A reality that cannot be understood when feelings replace facts and experience.

Zero reasons prove nothing useful from torture. Torture only muddies the waters. Torture makes finding truth nearly impossible. It took almost ten years to finally filter out reality because some idiot used torture.

Fine dinners do more to extract the truth. But that contradicts what a TV show called "24" taught our current flock of 'experts'.

[Uday]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Let me, once again, remind you of what happens when radical Islamists are finished interrogating you...



Waterboarding and sleep deprivation don't seem so bad now, do they?

Yes. The bad actions of fanatics do not excuse anyone else's bad actions. Also, are you certain you wish to base your moral code by relating it to the actions of criminals?

[dmg1969]

Originally Posted by Uday

Yes. The bad actions of fanatics do not excuse anyone else's bad actions. Also, are you certain you wish to base your moral code by relating it to the actions of criminals?

That's part of the whole problem...you view them as criminals. They are not criminals, they are TERRORISTS. The guy who steals your car is a criminal. The guy who flies planes into buildings killing thousands is a terrorist. No wonder some of you want them tired in "criminal" courts as opposed to military tribunals.

I won't change your mind and you won't change mine, so we will agree to disagree on this one.

Hey, at least I give Obama props for getting the guy. That's something.

[dmg1969]

Originally Posted by tw

Information was so good that it took almost ten years to understand it? Of course not. Posted was a half story. Reality was so buried in myths and lies as to be all but useless. It took almost ten years and tens of millions of dollars to separate reality from the lies. Meanwhile, those who did not use torture had truth in less than one year - often in less than one month. Fine dinners more effective at extracting truths. A reality that cannot be understood when feelings replace facts and experience.

Zero reasons prove nothing useful from torture. Torture only muddies the waters. Torture makes finding truth nearly impossible. It took almost ten years to finally filter out reality because some idiot used torture.

Fine dinners do more to extract the truth. But that contradicts what a TV show called "24" taught our current flock of 'experts'.

Fine dining? Will there be candlelight? Soft music? Black tie? That has to be one of the funniest (and most ridiculous) things I have ever heard. Sure, it might have worked in WWII, but I'm sure most of those prisoners would have rathered live. Those we are battling today would rather die. You are dealing with an entirely different mentality.

And I have never watched 24.

[DanaC]

There is a wealth of evidence to suggest that torture is the least effective way of gathering information. The information gathered under toture is the minimum needed to stop the pain; the informant is not clear headed and therefore the information is prone to inaccuracy; prisoners who believe themselves beloved of God become more entrenched and unwilling.

'Enhanced interrogation' has been used in some instances, but the useful information gathered from prisoners has generally been through theuse of ordinary interrogation techniques. Added to that there are several prominent cases of individuals who have been subjected to normal interrogation techniques actually changing their minds and begun to work for their captors, against their former groups. Several such figures have become active in the fight against extremism within universities and the like, performing outreach with youths who are believed to be vulnerable to extremist propoganda.

Now, there may be odd cases where information given up during waterboarding or sleep deprivation turns out to be genuine and useful. But there is no way to know whether they'd have given more information through ordinary techniques. There is good evidence however to suggest that clever interrogators get more and better information than brutal interrogators.

So, whilst waterboarding may well get you a name, a long and well-crafted standard interrogation may well get you more. And has the added benefit of possibly breaking through the brainwashing and turning one of them. Then you really do have a useful informant.

Quite aside from the moral dimension, it is the least effective way of information gathering.

[sexobon]

Originally posted by General Stall

Words are the weapons of women folk.

Designer drugs are the way to go: better informants through modern chemistry!

[DanaC]

*coughs*Staal*coughs*

[infinite monkey]

Wait...what? Bin Laden is dead? When the hell did this happen?

[DanaC]

The Sontarans got him.

[infinite monkey]

The who?

[DanaC]

No, the Sontarans.


(sorry. Couldn't help that pun. They're a villain in Who)

[infinite monkey]

I can't resist puns. When I googled Sonatrans I saw it was a Dr Who thing...hence my "the who?"

[DanaC]

ahhhhh


You outpunned me.


I feel I have shamed my nation.

[infinite monkey]

It's not your fault. My mom got me this book when I was in HS.