6/23/2003: Bloody antler trade

Undertoad · 06-23-2003, 01:34 PM

In the distant land of Gorny Altai, Russia, somewhere in Siberia near Mongolia, the locals steal the antlers from the local deer. They do this not because they like antler-less deer, but because there is a big trade in antlers. Here they lead a stag into this strange contraption which stops it from moving at all.

They saw the antlers off with a regular hand saw.

A few of the locals surprise the tourists with this practice, which probably gives the stag a chance to return some bad karma through blood-borne disease and parasites.

Remarkably, this is the major export in this region of the world. The antlers go mostly to Asia for use in traditional medicines. (The stag lives on, none the worse for it all.)

Reuters feature story

Happy Monkey · 06-23-2003, 01:48 PM

I wouln't say "none the worse". He probably feels pretty bad for a while, and gets no hot does that year.

Uryoces · 06-23-2003, 03:00 PM

This could be bad in the sense that the antlers havn't fallen off naturally. If they'renot swabbing the end with antibiotics, it would be nice to see them smear the end with latex paint to seal it. Preferably not white latex...

chrisinhouston · 06-23-2003, 03:15 PM

I read the article and it mentions

"Some deer die from shock during the de-horning but in this case the stag's stumps were treated with salt and the animal was released back into the lush mountains to grow new antlers -- which one day will be culled again."

So, some are the worse for it and how about a nice dash of salt on the fresh wound!

The article also mentions that some Russians mix the blood with vodka. Not surprising as they seem to mix vodka with everything! Really brings meaning to a Bloody Mary.

Besides messing with the deer's mind, I wonder how this practice effects things like mating. Typically male deer and other horned mammals grow horns as part of the courtship ritual when finding a companion to mate with. I would imagine that this deer will be sitting the season out.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-23-2003, 05:01 PM

Lot of mixed up info in this article. Antler and horn are not interchangable and I don't believe either one has nerves so pain is not an issue as far as the cutting or salt goes. The bleeding from the neck is a common practice in many parts of the world for domestic livestock. They call them farms but I think they're more free range herds than what we consider farms. Damage to the animals psyche would be the same as an escape from a bear or lion or maybe branding. Aren't blood baths a russian tradition since 1918? Why is that kid in the back smiling?

juju · 06-23-2003, 05:20 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. Before deer antlers get hard, they are a live appendage and cause considerable pain when lopped off. Check out this exerpt from here:

<blockquote>Antlers are defined as the appendages which grow annually from the pedicle formation of the frontal bone of deer. They are therefore quite unlike the horns of cattle, sheep and goats, which do not regrow if removed correctly. Antlers also develop and mature in a manner different to horns and broadly two stages of antler development are recognised: velvet antler and hard antler.

Velvet antler is defined as growing antler which contains an abundant blood and nerve supply and which has a fully intact skin with a covering of fine soft hair. The surgical removal of velvet antler without some form of anaesthesia will cause pain and distress to the animal.

Hard antler is the antler when growth has ceased, calcification has occurred, and the skin,nerve and blood supply are no longer functional. This is when the antler has no live skin at its base. Hard antler can be removed above the pedicle without causing any pain or bleeding. Hard antlers are shed naturally just before new velvet antlers begin to develop from the pedicle.</blockquote>

juju · 06-23-2003, 05:24 PM

Frankly, I find this disgusting.

Leah · 06-23-2003, 05:31 PM

Yes the guy standing in the back ground does look very suspicious and devious. Dirty Russian

xoxoxoBruce · 06-23-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. Before deer antlers get hard, they are a live appendage and cause considerable pain when lopped off. Check out this exerpt from here:

I stand corrected. Reading that linc made me laugh. When any government anywhere gets involved, they sure can write rules at great length. You'd think they got paid by the line.

Shivaaa · 06-23-2003, 10:11 PM

I am surprised no one has commented on the "medicine" that is made from the deer antlers. They are used to cure Bob Dole's problem:E.D. It is all about the male erection industry, don't you know.

FYI: The Jackson Hole boy scout troop is the richest boy scout troop in the nation, by far. Each year, the boy scouts are allowed to collect the antlers left on the ground at the national elk preserve.

I personaly can't attest to deer or elk antler's efficacy. Since most of Asia is horny for the stuff, it is probably more than a wives tail.

chrisinhouston · 06-23-2003, 10:15 PM

"Dirty Russian"
That's when you mix the deer blood and vodka and the olive juice together and a shot of Tabasco!

YUM

quzah · 06-24-2003, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
They call them farms but I think they're more free range herds than what we consider farms. Damage to the animals psyche would be the same as an escape from a bear or lion or maybe branding.

Like anyone really gives a shit what animals "feel" right? If they do, they're labled an activist and all the "normal people" mock them. People don't care where their food/medicine/whatever comes from, so long as it's convenient and some one else does the "dirty work" for them.

I hate people. I really do.

Quzah.

06-24-2003, 05:16 AM

I'm a meat eater, but I do care about how the animals feel. I'm trying to be better. Really.

For example, take one of the most common foods these days - chicken. The conditions they're brought up in at places like Perdue and Tyson are pretty fuckin' bad. So then I read about this place called Bell & Evans, who lets chickens reach their slaughter size naturally, without any hormones or anything. They're kept in roomy and comfy places instead of being packed into one of those football-field sized cages that holds god knows how many. Everything about their chicken raising is humane. Now, the chicken costs more, but it's not prohibitively expensive, and I have a relatively clean conscience when I bite down into a burrito packed with their meat. We <b>are</b> higher on the food chain, and I have no problem with eating animals. But if there's a more humane way to do the whole raise & slaughter thing (and there is), I'm all for it.

More info at http://www.bellandevans.com

Leus · 06-24-2003, 09:06 AM

Also, nothing can beat the taste of naturally raised chicken. Their eggs are delicious, too.

Hmm... omelette.

06-24-2003, 09:25 AM

Well, I happen to agree. It's a better taste, to me. But honestly, I like any chicken. My main reason for eating Bell & Evans is that they do (mostly) right by the chicken, and I want to support that.

06-23-2003, 01:34 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	6/23/2003: Bloody antler trade In the distant land of Gorny Altai, Russia, somewhere in Siberia near Mongolia, the locals steal the antlers from the local deer. They do this not because they like antler-less deer, but because there is a big trade in antlers. Here they lead a stag into this strange contraption which stops it from moving at all. They saw the antlers off with a regular hand saw. A few of the locals surprise the tourists with this practice, which probably gives the stag a chance to return some bad karma through blood-borne disease and parasites. Remarkably, this is the major export in this region of the world. The antlers go mostly to Asia for use in traditional medicines. (The stag lives on, none the worse for it all.) Reuters feature story

06-23-2003, 01:48 PM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	NONE the worse? I wouln't say "none the worse". He probably feels pretty bad for a while, and gets no hot does that year. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

06-23-2003, 03:00 PM	#3
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	This could be bad in the sense that the antlers havn't fallen off naturally. If they'renot swabbing the end with antibiotics, it would be nice to see them smear the end with latex paint to seal it. Preferably not white latex... __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

06-23-2003, 05:01 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Lot of mixed up info in this article. Antler and horn are not interchangable and I don't believe either one has nerves so pain is not an issue as far as the cutting or salt goes. The bleeding from the neck is a common practice in many parts of the world for domestic livestock. They call them farms but I think they're more free range herds than what we consider farms. Damage to the animals psyche would be the same as an escape from a bear or lion or maybe branding. Aren't blood baths a russian tradition since 1918? Why is that kid in the back smiling? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-23-2003, 10:11 PM	#10
Shivaaa Recruit or Something Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4	Eastern woodies I am surprised no one has commented on the "medicine" that is made from the deer antlers. They are used to cure Bob Dole's problem:E.D. It is all about the male erection industry, don't you know. FYI: The Jackson Hole boy scout troop is the richest boy scout troop in the nation, by far. Each year, the boy scouts are allowed to collect the antlers left on the ground at the national elk preserve. I personaly can't attest to deer or elk antler's efficacy. Since most of Asia is horny for the stuff, it is probably more than a wives tail. Last edited by Shivaaa; 06-23-2003 at 10:13 PM.

06-23-2003, 03:15 PM	#4
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	I read the article and it mentions "Some deer die from shock during the de-horning but in this case the stag's stumps were treated with salt and the animal was released back into the lush mountains to grow new antlers -- which one day will be culled again." So, some are the worse for it and how about a nice dash of salt on the fresh wound! The article also mentions that some Russians mix the blood with vodka. Not surprising as they seem to mix vodka with everything! Really brings meaning to a Bloody Mary. Besides messing with the deer's mind, I wonder how this practice effects things like mating. Typically male deer and other horned mammals grow horns as part of the courtship ritual when finding a companion to mate with. I would imagine that this deer will be sitting the season out.

06-23-2003, 05:20 PM	#6
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. Before deer antlers get hard, they are a live appendage and cause considerable pain when lopped off. Check out this exerpt from here: <blockquote>Antlers are defined as the appendages which grow annually from the pedicle formation of the frontal bone of deer. They are therefore quite unlike the horns of cattle, sheep and goats, which do not regrow if removed correctly. Antlers also develop and mature in a manner different to horns and broadly two stages of antler development are recognised: velvet antler and hard antler. Velvet antler is defined as growing antler which contains an abundant blood and nerve supply and which has a fully intact skin with a covering of fine soft hair. The surgical removal of velvet antler without some form of anaesthesia will cause pain and distress to the animal. Hard antler is the antler when growth has ceased, calcification has occurred, and the skin,nerve and blood supply are no longer functional. This is when the antler has no live skin at its base. Hard antler can be removed above the pedicle without causing any pain or bleeding. Hard antlers are shed naturally just before new velvet antlers begin to develop from the pedicle.</blockquote>

06-23-2003, 05:24 PM	#7
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Frankly, I find this disgusting.

06-23-2003, 05:31 PM	#8
Leah Love my Heffalumps Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia (best place in the world) Posts: 346	Yes the guy standing in the back ground does look very suspicious and devious. Dirty Russian

06-23-2003, 10:15 PM	#11
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	Dirty Russian "Dirty Russian" That's when you mix the deer blood and vodka and the olive juice together and a shot of Tabasco! YUM

06-24-2003, 05:16 AM	#13
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I'm a meat eater, but I do care about how the animals feel. I'm trying to be better. Really. For example, take one of the most common foods these days - chicken. The conditions they're brought up in at places like Perdue and Tyson are pretty fuckin' bad. So then I read about this place called Bell & Evans, who lets chickens reach their slaughter size naturally, without any hormones or anything. They're kept in roomy and comfy places instead of being packed into one of those football-field sized cages that holds god knows how many. Everything about their chicken raising is humane. Now, the chicken costs more, but it's not prohibitively expensive, and I have a relatively clean conscience when I bite down into a burrito packed with their meat. We <b>are</b> higher on the food chain, and I have no problem with eating animals. But if there's a more humane way to do the whole raise & slaughter thing (and there is), I'm all for it. More info at http://www.bellandevans.com

06-24-2003, 09:06 AM	#14
Leus Abecedarian Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chile Posts: 179	Also, nothing can beat the taste of naturally raised chicken. Their eggs are delicious, too. Hmm... omelette. Last edited by Leus; 06-24-2003 at 10:21 AM.

06-24-2003, 09:25 AM	#15
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I happen to agree. It's a better taste, to me. But honestly, I like any chicken. My main reason for eating Bell & Evans is that they do (mostly) right by the chicken, and I want to support that.

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