It takes only 5 people to end gun violence in America.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

This is a poor argument. I can make booze in my own kitchen. I can grow pot in my back yard. I have a much better than average workshop in my basement, and a better than average knowledge on making stuff, and it would be virtually impossible for me to manufacture a gun.

Here's the rub for your assertion: facts.

Zip guns were made in basements and garages and bedrooms, and even in prisons, by the inmates.

Guns are out of the bag - we can't put them back into the bag, and act like they never existed.

The reason people are lining up at Gun Shows, is because they want NICE guns, not zip guns, and they want them BEFORE the feds or the states want your thumb print, blood sample, and DNA, "just for their records".

If guns are restricted, there will be grandfathered guns out there for a while. They can be stolen and sold by "law abiding" citizens on the black market, but over time they will break and wear out and no new guns will replace them.

No new guns will replace them?

< ROFL! >

What world do you live in?

Local gun restrictions have not worked because you could just cross the border to the next state, but national gun restrictions will work because the national borders are much more secure. Smuggling guns into the country will be very difficult in any substantial quantities.

Which will make them more expensive - which will motivate more people to make them, in their garage or basement, to bring in some money.

There ARE people who won't do this, of course, but there ARE lots of people who WILL do this.

And guns that aren't fired don't typically "wear out", as fast as you seem to believe.

Before you argue against my points, you'll need to explain why so many people are lining up at gun shows to buy stuff before it may be banned. They prove my point. National gun restrictions do work. If they didn't, you wouldn't bother arguing against them.

Done.

The facts, and human nature argue against your assertions. I don't need to do much at all.

[glatt]

I'd love to go back to the days of single shot zip guns being a "problem." I'm talking about 30 round semi-automatics. Virtually nobody will manufacture those in their basements. They are the problem.

The only flaw in my argument is the one that you didn't mention. And that is the improvements that are being made in 3D printing. Right now, you can make parts for a gun, but can't make a reliable fully functioning gun beyond a basic zip gun.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Adak

The facts, and human nature argue against your assertions. I don't need to do much at all.

Somehow you know human nature when you also know prisoners are making 30 round clips and automatic rifles in the machine shop. There is reality. And then there is fiction that justifies wacko extremist rhetoric.

Name one prisioner who has manufactured automatic weapons in prison. Name one hollow point bullet that has saved human life.

Little hint. That bullet's name is Jasmine. Facts are easily invented when you need one. And somehow you also know human nature. I don't think you even know yourself.

[Ibby]

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Undercover Boss is an awesome show.

Was an awesome show.

[DanaC]

I didn't know it had finished.

[Spexxvet]

I think it's still on. I just think it stopped being awesome. In the beginning, it really was about the eye-opening experience that the CEO got from doing the front-line job. Then it seemed to morph into this "I'm going to be a hero and give a gift to one of my deserving minions" like Extreme Makeover Home Edition. I didn't like it after that, and maybe it's changed again. My feeling is that if you do right for your employees, you're a hero everyday. Pay them enough to be able to afford their daughter's day care, health care, whatever, and you won't have to swoop in and provide a "gift" to them. Then, you're singling out one employee and the rest just stay fucked.

[Lamplighter]

The 2012 Colorado elections resulted in a change in majority party status
for the House (37 Democrats; 29 Republicans) and the Democrats retained their majority
in the Senate (20 Democrats; 15 Republicans).

NY Times
By JACK HEALY
March 8, 2013
Colorado Takes Up Gun Limits in Senate

DENVER — After months of emotional debate, an effort to tighten gun laws
in a state haunted by two mass shootings moved toward an uncertain climax on Friday
as Colorado’s State Senate began a marathon session on a range of new firearms restrictions.

On Friday, the full Senate gave preliminary approval to bills that would
create universal background checks,
require gun buyers to pay for background checks and
keep guns away from domestic abusers.
A debate over limiting*the size of*ammunition magazines loomed as one of the most divisive issues.

The most significant bills up for debate have cleared the Democrat-controlled
Colorado House and are supported by Gov. John W. Hickenlooper, a Democrat.
<snip>
The measure on gun possession and domestic violence won initial approval on Friday afternoon.
Also approved was a bill that would require in-person training, rather than online-only classes,
for Coloradans who want a concealed-weapons permit.

Among the 7 new bills, grounds in Colorado's background check
include a history of domestic violence (legal conviction, restraining order, etc.)


Last night PBS reported as follows:

Four of the bills have already passed the Democratic-controlled House.
Those bills would extend background checks to personal sales,
force gun buyers to pay the background check fee,
limit ammunition magazine size and
ban concealed weapons from being carried on college campuses.

Three additional bills being considered in the Senate would restrict firearm possession
for people who have committed domestic violence,
hold manufacturers liable for assault weapons deaths
and mandate concealed weapons permit applicants to take some in-person gun safety training.