Survival Lessons to be learned from the Victims (long) - Page 2

downside · 05-31-2002, 09:48 AM

Pilot responsibility

Just kidding. We haven't had that problem yet, and therefore, we haven't been forced to think of that. I certainly am not going to plan for every possible thing that could go wrong, until that thing does go wrong.

Besides, I thought airline food was poison. The pilot should be immune by now.

thebecoming · 06-08-2002, 09:07 PM

Its cost effectivness. You cant have the gasses knocking people out, simply if there was a malfunction in the passenger cabin, and gas knocked out the passengers. The resulting lawsuit would drive the richest of airlines to its knees.

Not saying its a bad idea though. But the inaccesible cockpit is stilll the best idea so far.

Tobiasly · 06-09-2002, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
One was a window washer who had keys, but the door was also locked by an electronic interlock controlled on floor 22.

Very interesting reading tw. It's hard to believe those electronic locks weren't designed to go off in a power failure or whatever. I thought there would be some master switch to shut them down, and absent any signal from the controller, they would open automatically.

Quote:

Originally posted by downside
Hollywood has shown in movie after movie the effects of Cloraphil (mind the spelling).

You're thinking of chloroform, not chlorophyl. And that definitely wouldn't be the substance of choice to knock out a room full of people!

jaguar · 06-09-2002, 06:17 PM

Lol...*image of plant foliage coming out of air vents* Electronc locks can be set to either open or stay cloed on the even t on a power failure, it just dends how the locking mechanism works and wha'ts the normal 'closed' position if its a soleniod based one.

Tobiasly · 06-09-2002, 08:45 PM

I understand they can be built either way, it just surprises me that in a public building like that there isn't some fire code that says they have to be "normally open".. or maybe at least now there will be.

Griff · 06-10-2002, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tobiasly

You're thinking of chloroform, not chlorophyl. And that definitely wouldn't be the substance of choice to knock out a room full of people!

It would make the victims quite *cough* green , however.

downside · 06-10-2002, 07:47 AM

That's right! "Form" not "phyl". I knew I should've used the dictionary.

The idea of sleeping gas malfunctioning never crossed my mind. Of course, you could think of it as a blessing in disguise.

Picture taking an 8 hour flight, trapped between a sick elderly man who is contantly coughing and a child who asks too many question.

Picture also having a broken fan and a buzzer that doesn't work and having nothing better to do than reading the barf bag label.

A malfunction in the sleep gas dpeartment might by welcomed.

russotto · 06-10-2002, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tobiasly
I understand they can be built either way, it just surprises me that in a public building like that there isn't some fire code that says they have to be "normally open".. or maybe at least now there will be.

There is. They have to fail safe from the inside. This is typically not a problem, as with electronic strikes you can usually use the knob to exit from the inside. Further, nearly all doors done with electronic strikes can be bypassed with a key on the outside. Doors with magnetic LOCKS are another matter, but from the inside you can just rip out the wires.

downside · 06-10-2002, 09:47 AM

The idea isn't just to stop the terrorists from getting into the cockpit. It's also to stop the pilots from getting out. As strange as that may seem, imagine a hijacker with a gun to the head of a woman. It is in the pilots best interest to land the plane and get help from authorities, not to save the woman.

So, if there is a locked door that the pilot can open on will, the plan fails. Most people would open the door to save that one person in trouble, and not think about what could happen if the enemy gets into the cockpit. The trick is to not give the pilot the option.

Just like how clerks cannot open the safe in the gas station.

06-10-2002, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by downside
Most people would open the door to save that one person in trouble, and not think about what could happen if the enemy gets into the cockpit.

That might have been the case on September 10th, but I highly doubt it now. I tell you what, if some guy stood up on a plane, pulled a gun and said "Now, I'm just hijacking this plane, it's not going to fly in to anything. You'll all be safe"... I wouldn't be taking any chances. The first opportunity I had, I'd be on his ass like white on rice. I'm positively certain that a <b>huge</b> portion of the American (and international) public would do the same thing. Likewise, if I were in a situation where I had to choose between my sister (who is very close to me) or my sister + all on plane + many on the ground dying, I know she would understand that I would have to take the chance that sacrificing her would save hundreds or thousands of others. It's simple numbers. No one is going to be stupid enough to willingly hand over control of a plane anymore.

juju · 06-10-2002, 12:08 PM

You sister-killing bastard!

Tobiasly · 06-10-2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
The first opportunity I had, I'd be on his ass like white on rice. I'm positively certain that a huge portion of the American (and international) public would do the same thing.

The first thing I now do on any plane flight is scope out the surroundings, and come up with several "what-if" scenarios and what I would do in each one. I identify surrounding objects that could be used as weapons. I look for people who seem to be by themselves. I decide whether or not I would be able to swing from the ceiling and deliver a kick to someone's head.

I expect that a decent number of able-bodied boys and girls now do the same thing.

Nic Name · 06-10-2002, 12:20 PM

Quote:

I decide whether or not I would be able to swing from the ceiling and deliver a kick to someone's head.

I expect that a decent number of able-bodied boys and girls now do the same thing.

Especially those who have seen Spider Man more than 5 times.

thebecoming · 06-10-2002, 12:27 PM

Exactly...Hijackers can now at least expect that passengers are going to at least try to overpower them somewhere/somehow in their attempt. It seems to be the lesson learned from 9-11 and the passengers from the flight that crashed over pennslyvania.

I believe any hijacker now is putting him/her self in grave risk of being stomped to death by the passengers themselves. And given the chance, the passengers would be right in doing so.

Nic Name · 06-10-2002, 12:36 PM

Yeah, these suicide hijackers are really afraid of being stomped to death.

06-08-2002, 09:07 PM	#17
thebecoming Drawn Druid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wisconsin Posts: 32	Its cost effectivness. You cant have the gasses knocking people out, simply if there was a malfunction in the passenger cabin, and gas knocked out the passengers. The resulting lawsuit would drive the richest of airlines to its knees. Not saying its a bad idea though. But the inaccesible cockpit is stilll the best idea so far. __________________ Fear profits man nothing, though you may go hide in a hole if you wish.

06-09-2002, 06:17 PM	#19
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Lol...image of plant foliage coming out of air vents Electronc locks can be set to either open or stay cloed on the even t on a power failure, it just dends how the locking mechanism works and wha'ts the normal 'closed' position if its a soleniod based one. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

06-10-2002, 12:27 PM	#29
thebecoming Drawn Druid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wisconsin Posts: 32	Exactly...Hijackers can now at least expect that passengers are going to at least try to overpower them somewhere/somehow in their attempt. It seems to be the lesson learned from 9-11 and the passengers from the flight that crashed over pennslyvania. I believe any hijacker now is putting him/her self in grave risk of being stomped to death by the passengers themselves. And given the chance, the passengers would be right in doing so. __________________ Fear profits man nothing, though you may go hide in a hole if you wish.

06-10-2002, 12:36 PM	#30
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	Yeah, these suicide hijackers are really afraid of being stomped to death. Last edited by Nic Name; 06-10-2002 at 12:39 PM.

05-31-2002, 09:48 AM	#16
downside a shadow in the dark... Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 44	Pilot responsibility Just kidding. We haven't had that problem yet, and therefore, we haven't been forced to think of that. I certainly am not going to plan for every possible thing that could go wrong, until that thing does go wrong. Besides, I thought airline food was poison. The pilot should be immune by now.

06-09-2002, 08:45 PM	#20
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	I understand they can be built either way, it just surprises me that in a public building like that there isn't some fire code that says they have to be "normally open".. or maybe at least now there will be.

06-10-2002, 07:47 AM	#22
downside a shadow in the dark... Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 44	That's right! "Form" not "phyl". I knew I should've used the dictionary. The idea of sleeping gas malfunctioning never crossed my mind. Of course, you could think of it as a blessing in disguise. Picture taking an 8 hour flight, trapped between a sick elderly man who is contantly coughing and a child who asks too many question. Picture also having a broken fan and a buzzer that doesn't work and having nothing better to do than reading the barf bag label. A malfunction in the sleep gas dpeartment might by welcomed.

06-10-2002, 09:47 AM	#24
downside a shadow in the dark... Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 44	The idea isn't just to stop the terrorists from getting into the cockpit. It's also to stop the pilots from getting out. As strange as that may seem, imagine a hijacker with a gun to the head of a woman. It is in the pilots best interest to land the plane and get help from authorities, not to save the woman. So, if there is a locked door that the pilot can open on will, the plan fails. Most people would open the door to save that one person in trouble, and not think about what could happen if the enemy gets into the cockpit. The trick is to not give the pilot the option. Just like how clerks cannot open the safe in the gas station.

06-10-2002, 12:08 PM	#26
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	You sister-killing bastard!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)