Club hatin'

Was talking about this with someone the other day and wondered what you guys would think about it.
When I was in college two things happened that really pissed me off.
A group of guys got together and decided to start a club celebrating Celtic/Gaelic/Welsh heritage. We were told that it would be considered a hate group and were given a world of shit about it.
About the same time an all male gym was sued by a woman to allow her membership because they "excluded" her and she cited that it was sexist... but no one was suing Curves or even bringing them into it at the time, or since as far as I have seen.
Nor did anyone state that the NAACP, which had a huge presence on campus, was a hate group... and we never stated that we wanted to "further" anyone in any way, over anyone else the way they do.
We just wanted to celebrate the heritage of a few people, some, I might add that would be black Irish, Jimmy Hendricks would have been eligible.

[bluecuracao]

After they gave you shit about it, were you allowed to start your club?

I was not the person starting the club, but was wanting to be involved... I have discussed in since & have had, pretty much, the same reaction.
No, we did not, we were told that there would be no school support and active resistance.
Basically, any members would be punished.

[footfootfoot]

At first I thought this was a screed against "clubs" as in nightclubs/ danceclubs/ etc.

I was ready to jump in and say that basically since I hate people, it would naturally follow that I'd hate clubs.

Only this is different. Not being allowed to form any kind of club on a campus is exactly why I hate people, though in this case since I am part Irish, English, Welsh, Scotch, and 7up, I'll say I like this club.

[Undertoad]

Um yeah, I heard of a guy who sued "Curves".

What a dick.

[footfootfoot]

OK I forgot another thing. When Iwas in the ci-tay last month seeing Les Paul, I stopped at nat sherman tobbacconist to pick up some of my favorite pipe tobbacco and tax them with questions about weevils.

They have a lovely smoking lounge upstairs, lots of leather and mahogany, etc. Very civilized. I enjoyed a nice pipe and relaxed. But the point is, they wanted to do it and they did it.

I don't know what the point is. Who the fuck am I kidding?

[Elspode]

"The Middle Class Liberal, Well-Intentioned Blues"

I wish I was a Negro, with lots of Negro soul,
so I could stay true to my ethnic roots and still play rock and roll.
If I was a funky Negro, eatin’ soul food barbecues,
then I wouldn’t have to sing the middle class liberal Well-Intentioned Blues.

I wish I was an Indian, a grown-up Sioux papoose,
so when I get drunk on a beer and a half I’d have a good excuse.
I’d be a noble savage, wouldn’t ever wear no shoes,
and I wouldn’t have to sing the middle class liberal Well-Intentioned Blues.

I wish I was a wetback on a strike in a lettuce patch
or a slant-eyed peasant with Viet Cong stashed underneath my thatch.
I’d only ever cross a picket line to pay my union dues
and I wouldn’t have to sing the middle class liberal Well-Intentioned Blues.

But I am not a Negro, not a red man nor a Mex. (Join me, kids!)
I’m a member of the oppressing color, language, age and sex.
I sympathize with the Arab cause; I feel for the put-upon Jews.
And I keep singing –
the middle class liberal –
humanitarian –
meaningful dialogue –
we are all responsible Well-Intentioned Blues.

For those of you who are/were unfamiliar with this outstanding piece of 70's history, check this out.

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

OK I forgot another thing. When Iwas in the ci-tay last month seeing Les Paul, I stopped at nat sherman tobbacconist to pick up some of my favorite pipe tobbacco and tax them with questions about weevils.

They have a lovely smoking lounge upstairs, lots of leather and mahogany, etc. Very civilized. I enjoyed a nice pipe and relaxed. But the point is, they wanted to do it and they did it.

I don't know what the point is. Who the fuck am I kidding?

If you are worried about weevils/tobacco beetles, just freeze your stash, then put it in the fridge for a couple of days, then thaw. Keep it sealed the whole time. I would use a mason jar for this. Wait for it to fully reabsorb all moisture before using again.
If you are talking about cigars, take the thawing process much slower and keep in your humidor for a while, it dries them out a bit.
They hatch at 80 degrees, so it you keep your tobacco cool at all times and your tobacconist is reputable and their supplier is as well, you should be ok. Just freeze any gifts you get.

Originally Posted by Elspode

Unfortunately, in current society, only white Protestant males are capable of discrimination. Everyone else is a victim.

I hope you are being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I don't know what the deal is with Curves, but one doesn't have to actually be Black to be eligible for NAACP membership, I don't think. That might've been the problem your school had with the club--eligibility based on ethnic background. Though it doesn't sound like they were very clear about it, and overreacted instead.

Incidentally, my college has a school-sanctioned German Club--but you don't have to be German to join.

So, I can apply for one of their scholarships & get it? No... & I should not... but I should be able to start an all white scholarship fund if I want and not get any shit for it as well. I don't want to, but I am making a point.

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Something everybody should know about Curves: the owner and founder is the most intensely right-wing radical that a woman would ever hope not to meet. The money that women pay Curves goes to sponsor abortion clinic shutdowns, religious right programming, the defeat of ERA legislation, and the election of ultra-conservative candidates. This person actually has a Texas ranch next to George Bush! His greatest inspiration is The 700 Club. He talks like a televangelist and spends like one too. The person who gets the money you pay to Curves uses it for the REPRESSION of women and the elimination of their hard-earned rights in today's society. Boycott Curves!!!

I agree... but at the same time, it is a private club. They should have the right to have what members they want, period.
Tall, short, women, men, Christian, Jewish, black, white, German, Jamacan... I don't care.
Private means private... if they want to smoke in there, eat meat, play loud music, go bare-assed... it is none of anyone's business.
If you want to work-out, go join a damn gym that wants your ass... end of story, but leave them alone.

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

There is a NAAWP.
However, it is a "White Power" association.

I have read the site...their charter says they are not, but 90% of their membership talks the talk.
But, it seems because they feel discriminated against, that they are under attack. That they are being made to feel ashamed of who they are... and I can't say that I don't understand.
I don't react the same way they do, but I certainly have had the same experiences.
There should NEVER be any white guilt, EVER in ANY situation.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

So, I can apply for one of their scholarships & get it? No... & I should not... but I should be able to start an all white scholarship fund if I want and not get any shit for it as well. I don't want to, but I am making a point.

Your point is actually quite valid. I am in charge of the scholarship program here where I work. Basically, the donor gets to determine what sort of person is eligible for their donation, whether it be race, gender, academic achievement, financial need, or any combination thereof. However, I am sure there would be quite the community uproar if we advertised, in our annual scholarship brochure and application, "Whitie's Funds Memorial Scholarship for Whities Only." All hell would break loose, though we are perfectly OK having a scholarship that is only, for example, for women over 25 who are business majors from a particular county, per the donor's request.

There are national scholarship search engines, however, that lead you to scholarships that pertain to your background, interests, and heritage, and I bet there MUST be some pretty specific scholarships out there that, if my institution were to administer them, would cause problems in our community.

For example, we do have a Minority Scholarship. We do not have a Majority Scholarship. Do I think we should? Not necessarily. It just isn't how it works in our society.

Having said that, my dream is to someday have money so that I can develop a scholarship for those students who fall in the middle financially. The feds and state don't provide much help because they dare have jobs and independence, but they don't really make enough money that higher education isn't a bit of a hardship.

It is my current position that has brought out what others might see as conservatism when my whole life I have felt myself to be very liberal. There are just too many who fall through the cracks. We are losing our middle class in this nation, and a society without a middle class cannot sustain itself.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Your point is actually quite valid. I am in charge of the scholarship program here where I work. Basically, the donor gets to determine what sort of person is eligible for their donation, whether it be race, gender, academic achievement, financial need, or any combination thereof. However, I am sure there would be quite the community uproar if we advertised, in our annual scholarship brochure and application, "Whitie's Funds Memorial Scholarship for Whities Only." All hell would break loose, though we are perfectly OK having a scholarship that is only, for example, for women over 25 who are business majors from a particular county, per the donor's request.

There are national scholarship search engines, however, that lead you to scholarships that pertain to your background, interests, and heritage, and I bet there MUST be some pretty specific scholarships out there that, if my institution were to administer them, would cause problems in our community.

For example, we do have a Minority Scholarship. We do not have a Majority Scholarship. Do I think we should? Not necessarily. It just isn't how it works in our society.

Having said that, my dream is to someday have money so that I can develop a scholarship for those students who fall in the middle financially. The feds and state don't provide much help because they dare have jobs and independence, but they don't really make enough money that higher education isn't a bit of a hardship.

It is my current position that has brought out what others might see as conservatism when my whole life I have felt myself to be very liberal. There are just too many who fall through the cracks. We are losing our middle class in this nation, and a society without a middle class cannot sustain itself.

Welsh males are not the majority in the US.
Not by a long-shot.
"not how it works"... I thought this was a free nation? What does that mean?

Claim: Gary Heavin, founder and CEO of the fitness chain Curves, supports pro-life causes.

Status: True.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2004]


Just so you know: Gary Heavin, the founder of the Waco, Texas-based chain of exercise studios called Curves, is a heavy contributor to several organizations allied with Operation Save America, the rather more muscular successor to Operation Rescue, the anti-choice group.

The organizations he funds are spreading the lie that abortions lead to an increased risk of breast cancer. Planned Parenthood says its operations in Texas are being threatened by Heavin-funded clinics based on the old therapeutic model "you must carry your child to term."

In an article in Christianity Today, Heavin expressed pride in his involvement with anti-choice groups, to which he donates 10 percent of Curves' profits. You may do with this information what you will.


Origins: With
more than 7,000 fitness and weight loss centers around the globe, Curves is the largest fitness franchise in the world. One in four health clubs in the U.S. is a Curves, a stupendous feat given that the company has only been around since 1992. Yet, for the utterly amazing, consider this: Prior to January 2004, Curves didn't have a national ad campaign. Almost all of its customers found out about the chain through word of mouth.

You wouldn't think one exercise club could be that different from any other, but Curves are, and that difference accounts for the success of the chain. Curves exercise clubs are strictly for women. Their stripped-down no-frills look will likely come as a shock to those who have been conditioned to believe proper fitness palaces should be fashioned of glass and gleaming chrome and populated by herds of designer-garbed hard-bodied 20-somethings setting new land speed records on treadmills and exercise bikes. At Curves, there are no lockers or showers, and the clientele is predominently middle-aged and overweight. The equipment members use is set up in a circle. Every 30 seconds those working out are told to move to the next station, which is either another machine that works different muscle groups or a space between two machines where exercisers run or walk in place. A typical Curves workout regimen is 30 minutes a day, three times a week.

Because the equipment is hydraulic, it adapts to each user's level of fitness, making these workouts suitable for anyone regardless of physical conditioning. Women like the Curves program for its "30 minutes and you're on your way" aspect, but also for the camaraderie that comes from exercising with others, which appears to be spurred on by the arrangement of the workout stations in a circle. Friendships form. Encouragement is given. A sense of "We're all in this together" pervades.

More than 7,000 outlets since 1992. Obviously, they're doing something right.

This highly successful chain is the brainchild of Gary Heavin, a Texas businessman who earlier in his life had a 17-location fitness center chain before filing bankruptcy, divorcing, losing custody of his two children, and serving a six-month jail sentence for failure to pay child support. Although a Christian from his teen years, he re-committed his life to Christ while in jail, after which he and his new wife (whom he married just before his incarceration) opened the first Curves in Harlingen, Texas, in 1992.

The text of the e-mail quoted above was written by Jon Carroll, a columnist with the San Francisco Chronicle. It appeared in that paper on 20 April 2004.

The statements made by Carroll in those three short paragraphs about Gary Heavin, the founder and CEO of Curves, hold water for the most part. Heavin (pronounced "Haven"), is a born-again Christian who is strongly pro-life and, according to an article on Operation Save America's web site (a pro-life group of a more radical orientation than Operation Rescue, and one that asserts there is a connection between abortion and increased risk of breast cancer), is one of their supporters:

We then contacted Mr. Gary Heavin, Founder and CEO of Curves International. Mr. Heavin is a wealthy man who is a committed Pro-life Christian. He is the premier customer of the bank that sponsors Komen. He graciously returned our phone call and promised to use his influence to convince the bank to give some of the funding to Carenet, so they could take care of the women, instead of Planned Parenthood.

Several months passed and, lo and behold, on Tuesday, September 23rd, in the year of our Lord 2003, Carenet, our local CPC, held their annual banquet. It was the most attended, and as far as I was concerned, the best one to date. At the end, a major announcement and press statement was issued for Central Texas. Gary Heavin made a five million dollar grant to Family Practice, Carenet, and McCap. These groups and ministries would receive one million dollars a year for the next five years.
Granted, some shortcuts were taken by Jon Carroll in his heads-up about Heavin. If Heavin does support Operation Save America, his "support" is of a non-financial nature. The "article in Christianity Today" was actually published in Today's Christian (formerly Christian Reader), a magazine put out by Christianity Today. Also, the "donates 10 percent of Curves' profits" is a misleading way of saying Heavin gave away that much money in 2003 — the wording implies he donates that percentage of Curves' profits on an ongoing basis, yet the source material this information was drawn from speaks only to one particular year (2003), not to any year before it, and not to any plans by Heavin to gift at a similar level in future years. Moreover, the Today's Christian article stated that Heavin donated an amount equal to 10 percent of Curves' profits to "charities," which Jon Carroll has represented solely as "anti-choice groups" — though Heavin does financially support pro-life organizations and might well give only to them, he might also donate to other manner of charitable groups as well, with the 10 percent figure representing the total of what he doled out in charitable contributions in 2003 to various causes, both pro-life and otherwise. Ergo, either Carroll mischaracterized or misunderstood what he read, or he based his statement on information outside that Today's Christian article:

[Shawnee123]

By "not how it works" I am not saying it shouldn't work one way or not...I'm saying that our society would not always agree that if one type of scholarship were allowed that another one along the very same lines but different agendas should be.

Also, in my attempt to illustrate that point you must have thought that I was talking about any group in particular. I was, in fact, trying to help you with YOUR point.

Free Nation? Of course, in theory.

But, I forget that unless we are arguing or disagreeing or smooching someone's ass we should just keep our mouths shut. Sorry for trying to show another aspect to the point.

[footfootfoot]

Pull the tregroes, negroes! We're with you all the way.
(just across the bay, whether it's in Oakland or Marin, we're with you all the way across the bay)

[Crimson Ghost]

Evertime us Germans want to form a club, people get pissed.

[Spexxvet]

I thought this thread would be against a suit of playing cards. I was going to jump on the band wagon. Spades, hearts, and diamonds are way better than clubs!

I've always felt that equality is equality. That means if you can't have an all-male gym, you can't have a Curves. If you have a NAACP, there should be a NAAWP. Even-Steven, fair playing field. I acknowledge that the feild has been slanted in the European-American favor for a long time. So make the playing field flat, not slanted in anybody's favor!