Have gas prices affected you? - Page 8

Elspode · 08-30-2005, 04:26 PM

I seem to remember that the economy during the 70's really sucked pretty bad, dejavu-wise. I don't recall it improving due to high fuel prices and shortages.

While I have a reasonable amount of disposable income, I won't if gas goes up over $3.00 (which I now predict will happen by Labor Day...you heard it here first). I suspect that I may not be a vanishingly small part of the consumer base in this country, and that many others may find themselves becoming strapped as well, especially when fuel costs impact the price of goods at the point of sale (which, for my next prediction, will occur by the end of October, in spades, in order to anticipate the holiday buying season, which I further predict will be the worst in a decade).

I don't have any citations for any of this, so feel free to knock down my arguments. We're living on borrowed money in this country. We produce very little of what we consume anymore, we are fat and lazy on technology and unsupported, overinflated home values, and our State and Federal governments are dumping more and more of the burden of the disabled and indigent back in their handicapped laps. We have just experienced what is undoubtedly going to be the most disastrous, expensive catastrophe in American History, guaranteeing increased insurance prices and lowered insurance availability along with business and personal financial crises on an enormous scale, all types of fuels are reaching historic highs every other week, and we are waging a very expensive, lingering war.

Someone else will need to take care of posting the good news in all of this.

Griff · 08-30-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Someone else will need to take care of posting the good news in all of this.

Since we always learn from our mistakes, there will be a big push in domestic energy production creating a growth sector in our econom... never mind.

Elspode · 08-30-2005, 04:38 PM

According to what I've been reading and hearing, it wouldn't matter if we found an oil reserve the size of Saudi Arabia's...we wouldn't be able to process it, and the price would go up.

I have yet to hear a scenario, even one where something good happens, where the price of energy doesn't go up. Supply and demand are not really what drives energy. Politics drives energy prices. It is a tool, a weapon, not a commodity. Ptui!

Griff · 08-30-2005, 04:45 PM

So you're saying we need a good solid war?

tw · 08-30-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

Just an observation here...

There is a trend in the gas market that everyone seems to miss. At one point, we are paying $1.50 then it climbs to $1.80 and everyone complains. It drops but not past $1.70. Everyone is happy they're not paying $1.80 anymore but don't really complain we are now paying $0.20 more for gas than we were a few months ago.

Yes, everyone complains using emotion. However the facts are supported by what they actually do. You don't see SUV sales plummeting. Maybe the largest 8 MPG models are not selling as much. But even in The Cellar, one buys a low performance gas guzzler and justifies it by saying he does not drive much.

When gas was really cheap in 1970, it was about $0.34 per gallon. That is about $1.70 in 2005 dollars according to numbers from the Bureau for Labor Statistics. So when gasoline went from about $1.00 per gallon to $1.40 and so many were complaining even here, well, how many really changed anything? IOW they were being emotional. Logically, price of gasoline was still so low, as demonstrated by their actions.

According to a government chart, gasoline in 1980 was about $1.35 per gallon. This translates to maybe $3.50 per gallon. It was only then that Americans did any life style changes. Whether change was due to gas prices could be debated because jobs had all but disappeared. Stagflation, federal government money games, and the cost of a Vietnam War also were appearing in spread sheets as a lagging economic indicator.

It did not much help that at least one American car would not start in a parking lot every cold day. Things were failing that frequently causing significant attitude changes in Americans.

The point is, gasoline is not high enough until even GM starts doing innovation such as hybrids and fires top management who do not even drive. Management so myopic, technically naive, and anti-GM as to even promote hydrogen as a fuel. Currently the nation is going about business today as if gas prices were same as in 1999 - less than $1 per gallon. Gas prices are still that low.

Don't listen to the hype about high gas prices. Look at what people actually do. Currently, prices are still quite low as demonstrated by economic numbers that will not show the downside of high gas prices for years. IOW Deja Vue.

tw · 08-30-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

I seem to remember that the economy during the 70's really sucked pretty bad, dejavu-wise. I don't recall it improving due to high fuel prices and shortages.

The economy sucking so bad for most of the 1970s finally resulted in changes in 1980s. For example, as a result of firing the anti-American Henry Ford in 1981 (patriots stopped buying Fords after decades of crap products and therefore voted out Henry), then 'car guys' finally started designing Fords. Engineeers had designed the 1965 Mustang. What is the next car designed by car guys in Ford Motor? 1986 Ford Taurus. A car that eventually started making profits for Ford in 1990. Look at those numbers. Look how long economic indicators take to measure profits from innovation.

It took the 1970s to eliminate Henry Ford. Then almost ten years to start improving things. Of course. They don't teach in the business schools what really makes profits. It takes typically four to ten years to design. The profits in 1990 Ford were due to work done in 1981, 82, 83, 84, 85, and 86. Notice years like 1989 and 1990 are not listed. What does it take to create economic change? Four to ten years later, the profits from innovation finally appear on spread sheets.

Don't for a minute think today's oil prices will adversely affect todays economy. We have not yet seen how today's oil prices affect your job. We have not yet seen what should be the resulting stagflation due to how the government is leaking money everywhere and how US dollars are flowing overseas in waves.

It is how economies really work. We are just now suffering the pain of that George Jr tax cut. Pain that should continue for years to come. Again, that is how economics works. Don't think as business school graduates are taught. They put some capital into a simulator and out pops more profits that next year. Bull. Think what they don't teach in the business schools. Real world economics are based upon the product - more specifically innovation. Any innovation inspired by higher gas prices will never appear for at least four years - and longer.

$100 million in 1994 to build a hybrid. Eleven years later and GM still has no hybrid? Innovation cannot happen in corrupt institutions until the pain becomes so great as to threaten bankruptcy. Then many years later for liberated innovations to finally emerge in economic spread sheets. Lagging indicators take years.

Currently nothing has changed except the hype and emotion.

Kitsune · 08-30-2005, 05:55 PM

Head's up -- we're going short here in Tampa. 87 octane is gone thanks to Katrina.

Dagney · 08-30-2005, 07:13 PM

I filled up yesterday 2.49/gal for 87 octane. Drove past the same station today - 2.87 for 87 octane.

Someone tell me there's not gouging going on...in a way I'll believe it.

BigV · 08-30-2005, 07:24 PM

Capitalism at its finest.

Queen of the Ryche · 08-30-2005, 10:11 PM

Cali update: Just saw three gas stations within 3 miles at over $3.00 for mid-range gas. Ouch.

lookout123 · 08-31-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Head's up -- we're going short here in Tampa. 87 octane is gone thanks to Katrina.

same thing happened in phoenix two days ago. i had to visit 4 gas stations to find 89 (all were out of 87) and i took the last of the 89 from the 4th station.

wolf · 08-31-2005, 01:03 AM

2.89 for Premium at the gas station on the way to work today. I did not buy premium.

So, can anybody tell me ... which is more energy efficient, running the A/C (albeit at a higher level than I would actually want, mildly chilled instead of icy cold) or driving with the windows open? (7 mile drive to work, usually not exceeding 40 mph)

superbaton · 08-31-2005, 05:48 AM

get some ice from your fridge, put it in a plastic bag, place it on your crotch and voilâ!
ice cold driving.

Kitsune · 08-31-2005, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

same thing happened in phoenix two days ago. i had to visit 4 gas stations to find 89 (all were out of 87) and i took the last of the 89 from the 4th station.

In Tampa, I suspect it was our glorious Gov's use of the magic word "rationing" on national television, yesterday, that prompted a small panic and hurried fill-ups. The runouts we're seeing aren't any different than when a hurricane threatens us and everyone buys all at once.

What happened in Phoenix to cause a shortage? And did you end up wasting more money in gasoline driving to find the cheap stuff than if you would have just filled with 89 at the first station?

LabRat · 08-31-2005, 09:04 AM

Filled up yesterday with our cheapest, ethanol blend 89 octane (it's Iowa, we get a break) at $2.43. Topped it off this morning same place at $2.59. I passed a couple stations putting up the 3.XX as I was going to work. I think I'll be putting up a notice for anyone willing to carpool. Good thing I asked for and got a raise, too bad I won't be able to enjoy the extra $$.

On the radio this morning they were talking about the price only being higher in 1980 (when corrected for inflation etc.)...don't remember what the price was then tho.

08-30-2005, 04:26 PM	#106
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I seem to remember that the economy during the 70's really sucked pretty bad, dejavu-wise. I don't recall it improving due to high fuel prices and shortages. While I have a reasonable amount of disposable income, I won't if gas goes up over $3.00 (which I now predict will happen by Labor Day...you heard it here first). I suspect that I may not be a vanishingly small part of the consumer base in this country, and that many others may find themselves becoming strapped as well, especially when fuel costs impact the price of goods at the point of sale (which, for my next prediction, will occur by the end of October, in spades, in order to anticipate the holiday buying season, which I further predict will be the worst in a decade). I don't have any citations for any of this, so feel free to knock down my arguments. We're living on borrowed money in this country. We produce very little of what we consume anymore, we are fat and lazy on technology and unsupported, overinflated home values, and our State and Federal governments are dumping more and more of the burden of the disabled and indigent back in their handicapped laps. We have just experienced what is undoubtedly going to be the most disastrous, expensive catastrophe in American History, guaranteeing increased insurance prices and lowered insurance availability along with business and personal financial crises on an enormous scale, all types of fuels are reaching historic highs every other week, and we are waging a very expensive, lingering war. Someone else will need to take care of posting the good news in all of this. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog Last edited by Elspode; 08-30-2005 at 04:28 PM.

08-30-2005, 04:38 PM	#108
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	According to what I've been reading and hearing, it wouldn't matter if we found an oil reserve the size of Saudi Arabia's...we wouldn't be able to process it, and the price would go up. I have yet to hear a scenario, even one where something good happens, where the price of energy doesn't go up. Supply and demand are not really what drives energy. Politics drives energy prices. It is a tool, a weapon, not a commodity. Ptui! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-30-2005, 04:45 PM	#109
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	So you're saying we need a good solid war? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-30-2005, 07:13 PM	#113
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	I filled up yesterday 2.49/gal for 87 octane. Drove past the same station today - 2.87 for 87 octane. Someone tell me there's not gouging going on...in a way I'll believe it. __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

08-30-2005, 07:24 PM	#114
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Capitalism at its finest. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

08-30-2005, 05:55 PM	#112
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Head's up -- we're going short here in Tampa. 87 octane is gone thanks to Katrina.

08-30-2005, 10:11 PM	#115
Queen of the Ryche is fleeing the scene Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Beautiful CO Posts: 1,510	Cali update: Just saw three gas stations within 3 miles at over $3.00 for mid-range gas. Ouch. __________________ Once, in an interview, Chuck Norris admitted that he was not the most awesome thing ever. He declined to elaborate; but I believe we all know that he was referring to the existence of chocolate covered bacon. I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

08-31-2005, 01:03 AM	#117
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	2.89 for Premium at the gas station on the way to work today. I did not buy premium. So, can anybody tell me ... which is more energy efficient, running the A/C (albeit at a higher level than I would actually want, mildly chilled instead of icy cold) or driving with the windows open? (7 mile drive to work, usually not exceeding 40 mph) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-31-2005, 05:48 AM	#118
superbaton The Cellar team Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ba, argentina Posts: 196	get some ice from your fridge, put it in a plastic bag, place it on your crotch and voilâ! ice cold driving.

08-31-2005, 09:04 AM	#120
LabRat twatfaced two legged bumhole Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,143	Filled up yesterday with our cheapest, ethanol blend 89 octane (it's Iowa, we get a break) at $2.43. Topped it off this morning same place at $2.59. I passed a couple stations putting up the 3.XX as I was going to work. I think I'll be putting up a notice for anyone willing to carpool. Good thing I asked for and got a raise, too bad I won't be able to enjoy the extra $$. On the radio this morning they were talking about the price only being higher in 1980 (when corrected for inflation etc.)...don't remember what the price was then tho. __________________ Strength does not come from how much weight you can lift, or how many miles you can run. It comes from knowing that you set a goal, and rose to the challenge. Strength comes from within.

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