Impeding changes to our Health Care system

And you are making sweeping generalizations.

Those stats come from many verifiable sources.

Probably the best example is the SCHIP program to provide insurance for children of working families making up to 2x the poverty level. The stats come from the applications...the kids get covered, the parents do not. Or Medicaid applications that are denied because of exceeding the max income level.

I assume you would never take public assistance....health care, welfare, food stamps.....if you became unemployed for a long period of time due to no fault of your own.

[Yznhymr]

Define many verifiable sources, along with process, quality control, original source of data, and political leaning of such verifiable sources, and who substantiates those sources as reliable?

Generalizations come from observations, wisdom, intelligence...all of which someone must have in order to be able to make (or comprehend).

When I was under the poverty level for 13 years while active duty military...where were the programs to feed my three kids when I couldn't afford housing, heat, food, & clothing? Why did I have to go to the hack doctors who literally could care less what our outcome would be? How about the "health care professionals" who laughed when my sore ripped open in front of them (three inches) when they were stretching it during surgery prep and they did not even give me a local for pain? And these other people now deserve more and better now that I earned my degrees the hard way at night while working full time, and now fighting the good fight in the corporate world? Which by the way, my insurance grows less and less, while costing more and more, every stinking year. Bite me redux. You don't live in my world, you live in some democratic dream world that will always be imperfect.

peace

[Yznhymr]

Originally Posted by Redux

I assume you would never take public assistance....health care, welfare, food stamps.....if you became unemployed for a long period of time due to no fault of your own.

See my last statement. I had to beg for food stamps when serving our country. I was working my ass off for those food stamps. I can't say that for most of the people in my community who get them.

[Yznhymr]

I'll show you sweeping generalizations. It'll take eight hours...one work day...to tour my town and you'll see with your own eyes (and not someone's report, chart, graph, or political twist) where generalization comes from reality. I'll even take you out to lunch. Game?

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

Define many verifiable sources, along with process, quality control, original source of data, and political leaning of such verifiable sources, and who substantiates those sources as reliable?

Generalizations come from observations, wisdom, intelligence...all of which someone must have in order to be able to make (or comprehend).

I pointed out two of the most commonly verifiable sources -- SCHIP and Medicaid applications and data.

Generalizations are far more biased and far less accurate and the fact remains that your generalizations are not supported by any data.

I'm sorry the system screwed you...but the solution is making the system better, not doing away with it.

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

I'll show you sweeping generalizations. It'll take eight hours...one work day...to tour my town and you'll see with your own eyes (and not someone's report, chart, graph, or political twist) where generalization comes from reality. I'll even take you out to lunch. Game?

Thanks for the offer, but the "bite me, redux" is not very inviting.

I have toured numerous cities in dozens of states over the years, speaking with local officials, NGOs and the recipients of federal assistance.

Yes, there are people who scam the system, but the overwhelming majority on federal assistance programs do not fit your characterizations as "damn lazy ass mother fucking pieces of shit welfare fuck-sticks wont get off of their crack smoking, prostituting asses."

[Yznhymr]

No, the point is, the system did screw me, and now that I am on the other side taking care of business, it wants to screw me from the other end. To hell with that. Let freeloaders hang out to dry. People that are in need, I'm all for helping them. Especially those people who are trying to improve their situation.

On another item, my daughter is disabled and she cannot even get a scholarship to college because I make too much. What?!? Are you friggin kidding me? I am not paying for her school. She is. She has no income and is dependent on us for room and board while at school. She can't even get a scholarship designed for people with her disability because of my income. How ridiculous. To make it worse, the scholarship was designed for people with a specific disability and for students with a parent with the same disability. That's me! My daughter has what I have, and because I overcome my disability by shear damn force of will and character, and I make more than some imaginary limit, then she doesn't qualify? Don't we still have the disability? Yes. But do I go get a parking handicap sticker and expect handouts everywhere I turn? No. But do I look out my car window and see lazy ass people parking in handicap spots because they feel they are better than other people, therefore deserve the spot? Yea. And free healthcare, etc.? Yea. Generalizations? No. Observations? Yes. Again...one day of what I see you'd change your tune.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

xob - then my statements wouldn't apply to those millions. My sister & her husband are disabled, cannot get work, and...well, you get the gist. They have to get whatever they can off of the government. But, there are many people out there that CAN (or could have at one time) get off of their butts and don't. Those are the leaches I'd just as soon kick to the curb. I wouldn't want the job to discern who was who, so what system is best? Not one I've heard proposed.

I know exactly what you're talking about, the welfare queens and their drones/pimps. Yeah that's a monster we've created with welfare policies of the last 60 years, but they already get medical attention, so we're not talking about them.

We're talking about the working poor (some of whom are trying to climb off welfare on their own, but may fall back to get medical coverage), up through many middle class families that don't get medical coverage from their employers, and just can't afford the equivalent of a mortgage/rent payment to cover a family with a couple kids.

And as Merc gets more raises medical costs skyrocket, like they have in the last year while the cost of living remained flat, more families are going to be in the same bind.

edit: And don't forget this ain't a freebie, people will have to pay for this, but an affordable amount.

[Yznhymr]

LOL...okay okay, I'll give you that redux. I am not offering me for lunch (bite me comment). But the point is the same, my observations are valid for me. I don't trust charts and statistics from government agencies that are self-serving. Independent reports would be better. Until there is something I rely on, or trust, I go by my personal experience with Uncle Sam, and the abuse of same in my community. PS. I have been to 148 cities and 15 countries in my lifetime. There are many small bergs and towns I didn't count. I have seen many cultures and governments. I like ours best. I don't like us trying something that has failed elsewhere. We need to try something new. Obama promised change. Not failure. I see providing for the dregs of society as a waste and a failure.

Okay, bed time. Sorry. I'll wake up again in about a year ready for another political discussion. Until then, cheers.

[Yznhymr]

xoB - you and I sir are on the same page...

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

I don't trust charts and statistics from government agencies that are self-serving. Independent reports would be better.

I know that extremists on the right dont accept any government stats and prefer to rely on personal anecdotes to make sweeping biased generalizations.

Its a great cop-out when you cannot defend your own position.

[classicman]

Its also a wonderful extremist position to believe everything your party tells you. Unfortunately, or fortunately for me, I belong to neither party and choose to not rely on either one as a source of information. Independent corroboration is best, in my ever so humble opinion.

To continually attack someone who disagrees with your position or whatever your party says is another classic extremist cop out. You, my friend have tuned it into a fine art. You should be proud.

Originally Posted by classicman

Its also a wonderful extremist position to believe everything your party tells you. Unfortunately, or fortunately for me, I belong to neither party and choose to not rely on either one as a source of information. Independent corroboration is best, in my ever so humble opinion.

To continually attack someone who disagrees with your position or whatever your party says is another classic extremist cop out. You, my friend have tuned it into a fine art. You should be proud.

Yep....I'm proud of my understand of federal policy. It comes with 20+ years of experience (all but two of which have been with non-partisan public policy organizations), a lot of reading and talking with experts..as well as "critical thinking" as opposed to just "thinking to criticize" in which you engage.

And I have said repeatedly that neither the stimulus program nor the health reform proposal represented my view of the "best" or "perfect" approach and I pointed out the short-comings I saw in both, but that, IMO, both were still better than nothing and understood that both represented an approach that could receive enough support to be enacted and have a good chance at success.

I was honestly shocked, for example, that Merc (and prerhaps you as well) did not seem to have a clue that the largest single component of the Recovery Act was tax relief and not spending....or that he would repeatedly post columns screaming "death panels" (before finally backing away from that ignorance when called out on it)...or post industry funding studies as "objective"...and of course, your many negative/critical links in which you dont even have the balls to express an opinion at all...but just sit on the fence.

I have tried to answer questions here to the best of my understanding whenever asked, pointing to specific language in the legislation, rather than dodge and weave like you and Merc. And I am not the one who has flooded the discussions with partisan columns/opinions...then runs away from them when challenged.

Finally, I was a little disappointed that you would privately seek out and accept my understanding of policy and then mock it publicly, but I have gotten over that.

edit:
BTW, your non-partisan, objective stimuluswatch.org includes the jobs created on that Jennie-O grant award:
Jobs Summary: represented as full time equivalent weeks of work (Total jobs reported: 286).

Does that mean stimuluswatch.org is now biased?