God and Devil - Page 8

Catwoman · 03-07-2005, 07:52 AM

But why feel the need to label it 'Christian'? Why do you have to be something?
Why can't you just be?

Of course it's possible I'm missing something here and what I call 'now' is actually 'god' but my rational, secular mind (equally as conditioned as an irrational, religious mind) can cope better with calling it 'now'... what is god. What do you mean. Explain yourself in three sentences!

Troubleshooter · 03-07-2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Nope. That about sums it up.

All I can say is damn.

O'Brian doesn't have shit on you.

mrnoodle · 03-07-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

But why feel the need to label it 'Christian'? Why do you have to be something?
Why can't you just be?

Of course it's possible I'm missing something here and what I call 'now' is actually 'god' but my rational, secular mind (equally as conditioned as an irrational, religious mind) can cope better with calling it 'now'... what is god. What do you mean. Explain yourself in three sentences!

The other explanation is that your "now" and my "God" are different things. If you have the experience that I had three times a week, you wouldn't be upright, much less coherent. No, I've experienced the "now" moments as well. That's how I know the difference.

Three sentences won't do it. But here's a start. The idea that "labelling" something is wrong is a product of the 60s, and invalid for the rest of the human timeline. I detest it. "Don't label me, I'm unique." No, you're not.

So, if we accept that labelling is a good thing, particularly when it enables us to accurately represent something to other people, then we can move on.

The Christian experience is labelled as such because a couple thousand years ago, people who knew Christ wrote down his words and teachings. He primed us on what to expect from a relationship with him, warned us against worshipping other things that seemed similar but weren't, and said that when he was gone from earth, the Holy Spirit would take his place as a comforter and teacher until his return. When I refer to my earlier experience, I am talking about what I firmly believe to be an experience with the Holy Spirit that Jesus referred to in his teaching. Not universal consciousness, not "now", but a named, unique, individual being who communicates God's will to humans. I can't lump that in with some kind of random adrenaline dump.

Troubleshooter · 03-07-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I can't lump that in with some kind of random adrenaline dump.

Why not? The brain is the ultimate arbiter, there is no other way to interpret sensory input.

mrnoodle · 03-07-2005, 12:56 PM

The brain isn't the ultimate arbiter in my worldview. The brain is the computer for the physical body, the soul is the user of the computer. The soul is higher in the hierarchy, and the brain isn't necessarily aware of it.

When you accept that there are concepts that the tissue of the human brain is incapable of containing, you really free up your spiritual side to experience cool stuff. Some people take drugs in an attempt to make the physical brain reproduce this awareness, but it's a poor substitute.

But of course, you might be right. I'm limited by my skull full of mush, too.

Troubleshooter · 03-07-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

The brain is the computer for the physical body, the soul is the user of the computer.

I won't disagree with that.

One question that has always been floating around in the back of my mind is whether the aware mind, the human consciousness, is just simply the result of enough connections in the right pattern being formed, an unintended side effect. I don't have anything to draw that conclusion from other than subconscious musings mixed with bits and pieces from all over the place and the idea of "greater than the sum of its parts".

I just don't see the soul as seperate from the body. I see the soul as the sum total of who a person is. I've seen nothing to lead me to believe otherwise.

That being said, I see no reason to cast off the idea of spiritual development because an unenlightened person is nothing more than an animal that is short on instincts compared to the rest of the animal kingdom.

Catwoman · 03-08-2005, 03:48 AM

I am a matter-less ‘person’ residing in a living lump of meat. When you put it like that, the notion of a soul seems insane. The immortal soul, our essential self, the one thing that eludes death, pain or distress, is our salvation from reality.

Now this is not necessarily a bad thing. It isn't pretty, this world. People die, people don't love you and most of the time it's pretty boring. So you make your own fun (or meaning). This can be within your little microcosm of family and friends, or widened to give it greater credibility, ie religion/spirituality.

The human body is fragile for god's sake (no pun intended). Just think - the stress of living in this world is enormous - we need some escape, it's self-preservation. Just like a lifer who creates his own fantasy world to avoid the reality of sitting in a box for the rest of his life.

Mr noodle - imagine the relief, the sheer pleasure of an alternative. You said something had happened in your life, something bad, that finally pushed you into believing. You had reached the ultimate point of desperation with this life and here - here was a god, an all-knowing, all loving creature to sooth your fears and help you through. Of course you would accept it, or course you would welcome it. You might even be drawn to your knees from such relief and joy.

The reason I don't have this experience every day is because I don't need the relief - nothing bad happens in my life. Oh, of course, bad things have happened - people dying, people going insane, people leaving me, people not loving me etc. But I don't see these things as bad, I just see them for what they are. "Oh no my best friend's died, this means something." No, "My best friend's died." And that's it.

My best friend didn't die, but whatever happens in my life is nothing more than what happens. There's no soul, no redemption, no restarts and no other world. Get used to it and then you'll start seeing it properly.

Boo-Yah Chan · 04-03-2005, 03:56 PM

Last night I dreamnt that I was sent to hell. On my way down, it was more like falling through space; at first it was really liberating, until I realized where I was going. On my fall down, I was given the chance to redeem myself. I was forced by the devil to become an Iron-Chef, and I had to prepare all my dishes with my hands (over a hot skillet).

There wasn't fire and guys with pitchforks; and it wasn't THAT bad.. I don't think things are as black or white as God and the Devil; it's just a system that you can believe in. Maybe you believe in it 76% percent, or maybe you just believe in it 4%.

mrnoodle · 04-04-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Mr noodle - imagine the relief, the sheer pleasure of an alternative. You said something had happened in your life, something bad, that finally pushed you into believing. You had reached the ultimate point of desperation with this life and here - here was a god, an all-knowing, all loving creature to sooth your fears and help you through. Of course you would accept it, or course you would welcome it. You might even be drawn to your knees from such relief and joy.

No, I had reached a point where my distance from God's will had made me desperate. I already believed, but had let my belief falter. Just sin, not some huge bad event. It's kind of hard to explain to someone who doesn't "get" the sin concept. God didn't soothe my fears necessarily - he just made his presence known. That brought a combination of awe (near terror) and peace. Really can't explain it.

Trilby · 04-05-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

The reason I don't have this experience every day is because I don't need the relief - nothing bad happens in my life.

You. Are. So. Lucky.

04-06-2005, 12:35 AM

I AGREE. I BELIEVE YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

Beestie · 04-06-2005, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyFrankChirico

I AGREE. I BELIEVE YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

I believe you need to be excused. Permanently.

Undertoad · 04-06-2005, 08:59 AM

Agreed, and that's what's happened. The warning didn't take, so...

lookout123 · 04-06-2005, 11:22 AM

i haven't seen too many stalkers of this brew around here. any good stories from the past, on similar nuts?

OnyxCougar · 04-06-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

But why feel the need to label it 'Christian'? Why do you have to be something?
Why can't you just be?

Well lately, I'm re-evaluating that label. Anymore, it's a term applied to those that go around preaching hellfire and damnation and I can't get behind that.

But generally, the set of beliefs I hold as a moral standard most resemble the ones held by followers of Christ, hence "Christian".

The problem isn't with the "label", the problem is the perception that ALL Christians believe exactly the same thing and think and/or worship exactly the same way. The problem is overgeneralization.

I don't think Bush is "called of God" any more than I am.

(Yes, I know, Tee, I'm an extremist. blarg blarg blarg)

03-07-2005, 07:52 AM	#106
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	But why feel the need to label it 'Christian'? Why do you have to be something? Why can't you just be? Of course it's possible I'm missing something here and what I call 'now' is actually 'god' but my rational, secular mind (equally as conditioned as an irrational, religious mind) can cope better with calling it 'now'... what is god. What do you mean. Explain yourself in three sentences! __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-07-2005, 12:56 PM	#110
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	The brain isn't the ultimate arbiter in my worldview. The brain is the computer for the physical body, the soul is the user of the computer. The soul is higher in the hierarchy, and the brain isn't necessarily aware of it. When you accept that there are concepts that the tissue of the human brain is incapable of containing, you really free up your spiritual side to experience cool stuff. Some people take drugs in an attempt to make the physical brain reproduce this awareness, but it's a poor substitute. But of course, you might be right. I'm limited by my skull full of mush, too. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

03-08-2005, 03:48 AM	#112
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	I am a matter-less ‘person’ residing in a living lump of meat. When you put it like that, the notion of a soul seems insane. The immortal soul, our essential self, the one thing that eludes death, pain or distress, is our salvation from reality. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing. It isn't pretty, this world. People die, people don't love you and most of the time it's pretty boring. So you make your own fun (or meaning). This can be within your little microcosm of family and friends, or widened to give it greater credibility, ie religion/spirituality. The human body is fragile for god's sake (no pun intended). Just think - the stress of living in this world is enormous - we need some escape, it's self-preservation. Just like a lifer who creates his own fantasy world to avoid the reality of sitting in a box for the rest of his life. Mr noodle - imagine the relief, the sheer pleasure of an alternative. You said something had happened in your life, something bad, that finally pushed you into believing. You had reached the ultimate point of desperation with this life and here - here was a god, an all-knowing, all loving creature to sooth your fears and help you through. Of course you would accept it, or course you would welcome it. You might even be drawn to your knees from such relief and joy. The reason I don't have this experience every day is because I don't need the relief - nothing bad happens in my life. Oh, of course, bad things have happened - people dying, people going insane, people leaving me, people not loving me etc. But I don't see these things as bad, I just see them for what they are. "Oh no my best friend's died, this means something." No, "My best friend's died." And that's it. My best friend didn't die, but whatever happens in my life is nothing more than what happens. There's no soul, no redemption, no restarts and no other world. Get used to it and then you'll start seeing it properly. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

04-06-2005, 12:35 AM	#116
AnthonyFrankChirico Guest Posts: n/a	I AGREE. I BELIEVE YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT. Last edited by AnthonyFrankChirico; 04-06-2005 at 12:38 AM.

04-06-2005, 11:22 AM	#119
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i haven't seen too many stalkers of this brew around here. any good stories from the past, on similar nuts? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-03-2005, 03:56 PM	#113
Boo-Yah Chan Definetly a New Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at least 50 miles away from my ex-wife Posts: 4	Last night I dreamnt that I was sent to hell. On my way down, it was more like falling through space; at first it was really liberating, until I realized where I was going. On my fall down, I was given the chance to redeem myself. I was forced by the devil to become an Iron-Chef, and I had to prepare all my dishes with my hands (over a hot skillet). There wasn't fire and guys with pitchforks; and it wasn't THAT bad.. I don't think things are as black or white as God and the Devil; it's just a system that you can believe in. Maybe you believe in it 76% percent, or maybe you just believe in it 4%.

04-06-2005, 08:59 AM	#118
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Agreed, and that's what's happened. The warning didn't take, so...

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