10,000 hours to Mastery

Cloud · 03-11-2011, 12:44 PM

I'm sure most of you have heard this idea--that many successful people are not necessarily more talented than the rest of us, but have put in hours and hours of practice to master their specialty. The idea is it takes about 10,000 hours, or approximately several hours a day for 10 years. (If you haven't, see Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers: The Story of Success http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story...9868915&sr=8-1).

So, I was wondering--have any of you actually practiced something this long and mastered? Is there anything you'd want to practice for mastery?

Trilby · 03-11-2011, 12:50 PM

I've actually practiced sex for about that long and feel I've mastered it. Now I couldn't care less about it. Wasted my life!

glatt · 03-11-2011, 01:08 PM

I'm very good at breathing. I don't even think about it when I do it, and I do it very well. Almost no effort. I've been doing it for several hours each day for my entire life.

footfootfoot · 03-11-2011, 03:00 PM

It's actually 2.7 hours a day, every day for ten years. If you spend 40 hours a week (8*5) then you can be a master in 4.8 years.

So, for me by those metrics I have mastered:
Black and white photography, particularly printing. (20+yr)
Baking (5yr)
Bicycle Mechanic (5yr)
Cabinetmaking (5 yr) There is some overlap as I have been practicing photography since I was 12 and would still spend 4-5 hours a day after work when I had other jobs. When I did photo full time 12-16 hour days were typical.

As you can see, I have a long way to go before I'm at Z

Flint · 03-11-2011, 03:45 PM

I read about this in Scientific American. It is very important to note what "practice" means. It means working at the very edge of your abilities--continuously "pushing the envelope." As Terry Bozzio said of playing the drums, if you've been playing paradiddles for 20 years, then cranking out paradiddles on a practice pad no longer counts as practice.

You've got to PUSH yourself. Do THAT for 10,000 hours, then you will have achieved something monumental.

HungLikeJesus · 03-11-2011, 03:51 PM

Good point - I think that there are lots of people who have driven 10,000 hours and still do it poorly.

footfootfoot · 03-11-2011, 04:47 PM

OK then I'll downgrade myself to 3/4 masturbaker

and semi master cabintmaker, but as for bike mechanics, I think that is a rather small envelope to push so I'm keeping my accreditation there. As for photographic printing, I am still a full on double rainbow master.

ZenGum · 03-11-2011, 08:56 PM

How can you be a double-rainbow master at black and white printing?

I love the life that meme has taken on.

footfootfoot · 03-11-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

How can you be a double-rainbow master at black and white printing?

I'll explain it again...

Flint · 03-11-2011, 10:44 PM

I'll do that to my kids just to test their powers of discernment. After a minute I ask them, "Do you believe me?"

monster · 03-12-2011, 09:02 AM

bi-rainbow win!

Griff · 03-12-2011, 09:20 AM

My first fencing coach used to talk about how many repetitions we needed to make of an action to make our use of it subconscious. Of course if you practice it wrong it takes many thousand more repetitions to fix it.. So don't just practice, practice properly.

ZenGum · 03-13-2011, 06:49 PM

Foot .... touche!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

My first fencing coach used to talk about how many repetitions we needed to make of an action to make our use of it subconscious. Of course if you practice it wrong it takes many thousand more repetitions to fix it.. So don't just practice, practice properly.

Oooh yeah.
I've been dabbling on guitar for almost 20 years. (#%&*, how did that happen???) and can play a few nice melodies. It's fun and has helped get me laid.

But I never took lessons, so I've always had my left hand in what I now know is a wrong position. This is now greatly limiting my opportunity to progress. I can either go back to beginner level and get it right, or mess around where I am for fun. I do the latter. This isn't what I do for a living, just for fun.

So my two cents is, if you're starting out, get at least a few lessons to make sure you start right.

My 10,000 hours was focused of philosophising, and I'm good enough at that to earn a living.

Flint · 03-12-2011, 09:42 AM

Yes, Griff, yes! Don't bother practicing wrong unless you want to learn wrong.

A lot of physical activities involve developing a "muscle memory" of the action. This is done through repetition and the strengthening on the neuromuscular connections associated.

Pete Zicato · 03-12-2011, 11:56 AM

A couple of thoughts on this.

It may take 10,000 hours to master a skill. But don't let that stop you from taking up an instrument or a hobby. You can have fun from day one.

On the other hand, while I have enjoyed playing bass from the beginning, where I want to be at any given point is always a little further down the road.

03-11-2011, 12:44 PM	#1
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	10,000 hours to Mastery I'm sure most of you have heard this idea--that many successful people are not necessarily more talented than the rest of us, but have put in hours and hours of practice to master their specialty. The idea is it takes about 10,000 hours, or approximately several hours a day for 10 years. (If you haven't, see Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers: The Story of Success http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story...9868915&sr=8-1). So, I was wondering--have any of you actually practiced something this long and mastered? Is there anything you'd want to practice for mastery? __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

03-11-2011, 12:50 PM	#2
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I've actually practiced sex for about that long and feel I've mastered it. Now I couldn't care less about it. Wasted my life! __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

03-11-2011, 03:00 PM	#4
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	It's actually 2.7 hours a day, every day for ten years. If you spend 40 hours a week (8*5) then you can be a master in 4.8 years. So, for me by those metrics I have mastered: Black and white photography, particularly printing. (20+yr) Baking (5yr) Bicycle Mechanic (5yr) Cabinetmaking (5 yr) There is some overlap as I have been practicing photography since I was 12 and would still spend 4-5 hours a day after work when I had other jobs. When I did photo full time 12-16 hour days were typical. As you can see, I have a long way to go before I'm at Z __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

03-11-2011, 03:45 PM	#5
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I read about this in Scientific American. It is very important to note what "practice" means. It means working at the very edge of your abilities--continuously "pushing the envelope." As Terry Bozzio said of playing the drums, if you've been playing paradiddles for 20 years, then cranking out paradiddles on a practice pad no longer counts as practice. You've got to PUSH yourself. Do THAT for 10,000 hours, then you will have achieved something monumental. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

03-11-2011, 03:51 PM	#6
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Good point - I think that there are lots of people who have driven 10,000 hours and still do it poorly. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

03-11-2011, 01:08 PM	#3
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm very good at breathing. I don't even think about it when I do it, and I do it very well. Almost no effort. I've been doing it for several hours each day for my entire life.

03-11-2011, 04:47 PM	#7
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	OK then I'll downgrade myself to 3/4 masturbaker and semi master cabintmaker, but as for bike mechanics, I think that is a rather small envelope to push so I'm keeping my accreditation there. As for photographic printing, I am still a full on double rainbow master. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

03-11-2011, 08:56 PM	#8
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	How can you be a double-rainbow master at black and white printing? I love the life that meme has taken on. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

03-11-2011, 10:44 PM	#10
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I'll do that to my kids just to test their powers of discernment. After a minute I ask them, "Do you believe me?" __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

03-12-2011, 09:02 AM	#11
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	bi-rainbow win! __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

03-12-2011, 09:20 AM	#12
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	My first fencing coach used to talk about how many repetitions we needed to make of an action to make our use of it subconscious. Of course if you practice it wrong it takes many thousand more repetitions to fix it.. So don't just practice, practice properly. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-12-2011, 09:42 AM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Yes, Griff, yes! Don't bother practicing wrong unless you want to learn wrong. A lot of physical activities involve developing a "muscle memory" of the action. This is done through repetition and the strengthening on the neuromuscular connections associated. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

03-12-2011, 11:56 AM	#15
Pete Zicato Turns out my CRS is a symptom of TMB. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 2,916	A couple of thoughts on this. It may take 10,000 hours to master a skill. But don't let that stop you from taking up an instrument or a hobby. You can have fun from day one. On the other hand, while I have enjoyed playing bass from the beginning, where I want to be at any given point is always a little further down the road. __________________ Talk nerdy to me.

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