Bush documents faked?

[lookout123]

I'm not a computer guy so I have no idea about this kind of stuff. But CNS seems to think that Bush's documents recently uncovered by 60 minutes may be fakes. I figured I'd toss that one out to the cellar. You all mystify me with your ability to pick out photoshopped images and such - you can be the judge on this issue.

Story Memo

Here is another story from ABC news about the possibility of these being faked. The son of the author claims his father wouldn't have written the memos. I know from my time in the USAF and ANG that personal performance files are absolutely against regulation, but these are reported to have come from exactly that. ABC story

Another memo and another and another

edit: i would like to point out that i have no opinion yet as to whether or not they are faked. i'm no expert in typesetting. i thought some of you would have fun picking it apart though. if they are fakes, it is pretty ballsy though.

[Happy Monkey]

Proportional-width fonts date back to 1941, and a military typist would be likely to get a font ball with a "th", "rd", and "st", if such was available.

[lookout123]

why would a military typist have access to that type of ball? we certainly didn't when i went in and that was in 1992.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

why would a military typist have access to that type of ball? we certainly didn't when i went in and that was in 1992.

Even in companies where we cut costs on everything - especially capital equipment - in early 1980. Even then used typewriters had balls and proportional fonts (we almost never bought new office equipment). Xerox was giving away electronic typewriters with those abilities because - well Xerox MBAs created the Dallas operation and then had to dump product in early 1980s to maintain production. Bottom line is that typewriters with such abilities were quite common and often obtained for free.

Bottom line: CBS 60 Minutes essentially says that Bush has been lying about his military service - which is why the White House limited reporter access to his service records when the contraversy was first raised. If he was being honest, then why could reporters not study those papers?

Lets not forget why this is being raised again. They promoted lies about Kerry's military record. It is, at this point, quite obvious that questions about Kerry's service were based upon lies. However George Jr clearly had strings being pulled AND still no one can remember him doing his service in Alabama National Guard. For that matter, it is a public fact - not disputed - that George Jr failed to take his physical when ordered to do same. It is also a fact that he lost his flight priviledges directly due to his failure to take the physical. A physical he was required to take.

The only question remaining is why he chose to not follow orders; not take the physical. He's not talking. He hopes you will forget that his military service is tainted - as is most of his pre-40 history. This is an honest and moral man?

[lookout123]

in 1992 when i went in we had typewriters with daisy wheel construction that barely ran. do these have proportional font?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by lookout123

why would a military typist have access to that type of ball? we certainly didn't when i went in and that was in 1992.

Access? They're avalable in stores. If a guy is constantly typing 111th, 123rd, etc, he may well pick one up. As to why a random reserve Lt. Col. would have one in 1972, why would you even bother asking me? All I said is that proportional typewriters had been available for 30 years.

[lookout123]

the vagueries of written communication. i meant to ask why would you assume he had one. the military is pretty infamous for giving outdated crap to the troops to work with. any equipment has to come from the supply system and you had better be willing to sell your sister to get anything approaching new. my sections only computer when i got to Luke AFB was one of those old 1 piece systems with the monitor keyboard and big floppy disk all in one shell. i think it was Wordstar or something like that.
anyway - it wouldn't surprise me if and ANG office was using extremely outdated typewriters in the early 70's. that doesn't necessarily mean the documents are faked though.

[Happy Monkey]

I would assume he had one because he used it to type the damn memo.

Here's one of Bush's other documents. See page two, second line down, dated 4sep60. A single-symbol superscript "th" in fixed-width font. So both proportional fonts and single-symbol "th"s were in common use at the time, and you find it suspicious that a Lieutenant Colonel might have a proportional typewriter (30 yr old tech) with a "th" symbol (available even on fixed-width fonts) on his desk.

[lookout123]

no - i don't find it particularly anything HM. as i have stated, this is not an area in which i have any expertise. i read the articles, on the surface they make sense, but like i said i have no opinion as to the validity, that is why i offered it up to the cellar. many of you have this type of knowledge to pick apart with.

[Undertoad]

If you open MS Word and type the last memo in the default 12 point Times the typography is identical. I'm just saying.

I find it quite believable that a Lt. Colonel might have picked up one of those IBM balls for his typewriter back then. The Reserves are one thing, Active Duty quite another. An officer in the reserves might well have dipped into his own pocket or known somebody who knew somebody. I was a college student back then, working on the circulation desk of a state university library. I remember that the woman who typed up the catalog cards had one of those fancy IBM balls on her typewriter (invaluable for typing up the old style library cards that went into the card catalogs). She let me use that typewriter to type up a term paper once which is why I remember it - footnotes were a breeze compared to typing them up on my clunky manual that I had back in my dorm. If one of those gizmo's could show up at an underfunded university library, I don't see why the same couldn't have happened in a Lt. Colonel's office.

[Happy Monkey]

The original goal of MS Word was to duplicate the output of a typewriter. Fonts, spacing, tab stops, points, etc. were standardized, and faithfully duplicated by MS, as far as they could. Lesser used symbols and styles, such as a superscript "th", would be less likely to match up. Unsurprisingly, it is the "th" that matches Word's output the least.

[Undertoad]

According to this. no IBM Selectric (the "ball" typewriter) was ever introduced with proportional fonts.

[lookout123]

anything is possible. but being a member of the ANG i can tell you that a Lt Col doesn't exactly turn any heads as far as getting special treatment from the supply system. The ANG isn't the highest priority for funding with that type of thing. the money goes towards replacement parts and jet fuel. soft supply needs fall by the wayside. he very well may have dug into his own pocket to by a different ball for his type writer, but i would be surprised.

Oh yeah, the expert in the first article Lookout cited was upset by the lack of a letter head. I have many of my Dad's old military documents from about the same time and going by them, I'd say the military (at least the army) was not all that excited about letter heads. Some of my Dad's stuff has letter heads, some doesn't. All of it is quite real, however.