The Late Sir Jimmy Saville: National Treasure, Charity Saint and Sexual Predator

[DanaC]

A year since Sir Jimmy Saville passed away, to much mourning and nostalgic remembrance, the veil has been lifted and the halo has slipped to the ground, smashed into a thousand shards.

Well, I can't say as I was shocked. Though I always watched his shows as a kid, he also always gave me the creeps. Once I was older I heard odd things that made me wonder, and was able to better identify what it was about him that creeped me out so much. Other than his general eccentricity and wild appearance, which in and of itself would not have creeped me out.

What is shocking though, is a) the extent of his predatory behaviour, and b) the seeming collusion, or intimdated silence amongst the entertainment and journalistic community. And beyond, into the charities and organisations he worked tirelessly to promote and support.

For the Merkins who may not know who he was:

Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile, OBE, KCSG (31 October 1926 – 29 October 2011) was an English disc jockey, television presenter and media personality, best known for his BBC television show Jim'll Fix It, and for being the first and last presenter of the long-running BBC music chart show Top of the Pops. He was also known for his fundraising and support of various charities, particularly Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He was widely described as a philanthropist and was honoured for his efforts.[1][2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile

That still doesn't get across how much of a household name he was for several decades.

Anyways. This week ITV screened a documentary, in which a former child protection investigator followed up on several accusations made against Saville since his death, by women (and one man) who claimed to have been sexually assaulted by him when they were still under the age of consent. Initially, this story came along in dribs and drabs, prior to the documentary being aired. And at first there was a general sense of unease at the idea of effectively trying the man in the media when he is no longer here to defend or account for himself.

But once the first few allegations started to filter through there have been more.

I watched the programme, and it was pretty explosive stuff. Right down to his involvement with Gary Glitter (famous child-friendly pop star and pedophile) and even his opinions in an unbroadcast audio interview in which he defended Glitter's actions.

The girls appear to all have been between the ages of 12 and 15. It was apparently, it now seems, an open secret in the entertainment community. Allegations were made to police which were not considered compelling enough to follow up. Charities he was involved with...like a reform school for troubled teenaged girls for instance...where he would apparently visit and select a few lucky girls for a drive out in his car. Journalists who all knew that he liked 'em young. A Junior BBC exec who turned up to a restaurant for a meeting with him and found him accompanied by a girl ('between 12 and 14...closer to 12 I thought' )and made no secret of the fact he'd spent the night with her, but was too intimidated by him to do anything.

The staff of the reform school, who treated a girl who refused advances and made a noise about it like a trouble making liar, locking her in a secure room for two days.

Higher up BBC execs of the day who may have colluded in the silence and blocked journalists from following a story. Though some story got through. A little. A couple of programs have touched on it ( Louis Theroux Meets, notably) and a handful of celebs have made allegations of things not being quite right.

Here's a bit more about it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...?newsfeed=true

But now the personal angle: Mum reminded me recently of something she'd spoken of years ago and I had forgotten. When she was working in a Manchester club, aged 15, Jimmy Saville slapped her arse. Not slapped, really, more grabbed and squeezed. Couldn't keep his hands off the pretty young things.

Little clip of Colleen Nolan and Saville from the docu:

[Sundae]

Did I tell my Jimmy Saville story here?
No, he didn't molest me. Or grab my arse.
But I did see him regularly at Stoke Mandeville and he always creeped me out.

There was one time when he was talking to my boyfriend about me, right in front of me, as if I wasn't there. At 17 I was probably already too old for him, but he made me feel like a piece of meat all the same.

Many people in this area have similar stories - at least about meeting him and feeling uncomfortable.

[DanaC]

I just realized, rather annoyingly that I've spelt his name wrong. Doh.


[eta] Yeah, at 17 you'd have been too old for him:P

Not sure I agree with the paedophile label that's floating around in the press, mind you. All the girls appear to have been between 12 and 15. Thus far there's not been any mention of girls who hadn't developed sexually (though still clearly children in any other terms). So, he sounds like a control freak, sexual predator and child abuser, possibly rapist, but not paedo.

[ZenGum]

Try "Hebephile".

Psychiatry - a person who is sexually attracted to adolescents in the early years of puberty, generally aged 11 to 14; not a pedophile. Origin: From Greek, "Hebe" ...

The "not a pedophile" tag is disputable. You might say hebes are pedes, hence hebephiles are pedophiles. Some might reply that in the past, the age of consent was twelve, and our extended youth is a modern construct.

I'm (relatively) okay with the idea of two 13-year-olds doing it. But a middle-aged adult, with the money and power and celebrity status, forcing himself upon youngsters, is straight up criminal.

I'd like to see this investigated. If upheld, Saville should be stripped of all titles, and I'd particularly like to see criminal charges against everyone who turned a blind eye or otherwise abetted this crap. Especially whoever was in charge of that reform school.

We have mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse here. Do you have that in the UK?

[footfootfoot]

I'd forgotten all about Gary Glitter. After wikiing him I read about how he narrowly avoided the firing squad in Viet Nam where that is the penalty for child rape.
Not a bad idea, all things considered.

and Zen, the irony of a penal colony having stricter rules about kiddie diddling than the country that penalized them is not lost on this former colonist.

[DanaC]

You know I don't know about mandatory reporting. I suspect not though. It's not something I've come across before as a criminal offence. Professionals who should have followed up on suspicions can face disciplinary action, and in cases of outright negligence or culpability can face criminal charges.


The issue has continued to snowball. It's all coming out now. Not just Savile, but the sexual harrassment and assaults experienced by women in the media almost as a matter of course during the 60s and 70s. And several other entertainers, currently unnamed, have been put into the frame.

An interesting little piece here about the overall culture of harrassment in general in the media during those decades:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19870676

A couple of notable women entertainers have spoken out about the harrassment they went through during their early careers. Sandy Toksvig and Liz Kershaw both have very similar stories of being groped by senior male colleagues (whilst on air in Kershaw's case, working in radio) and having their complaints met with disregard and disdain. In both cases the response to their complaints included being told they must be lesbians if they didn't enjoy it.



Savile himself is now suspected (and indeed his name came up during the original investigations into this situation but there was not enough evidence to pursue) of involvement in a an infamous children's home on Jersey, where kids were sexually assaulted and raped by the poeple in whose care they'd been placed. It went on for years and when it came out a few years ago, it rocked the nation. Absolutely horrific.

Scotland Yard are now following up on 120 lines of enquiry as regards Savile's activities, with potentially 30 + victims. He, Gary Glitter and two other unnamed entertainers are implicated in the rape of a girl, in his dressing room.

His family have removed the ornate memorial gravestone from his grave. Quietly, overnight. It will be stripped of its engraving, broken up and scrapped. Statues of him have vanished. His name has been removed from civic lists of honoured citizens, in Leeds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-19893373

[Sundae]

Re mandatory reporting of abuse, we (school) have to have regular Child Protection training by law, with a written record kept. It enables staff to recognise the different types of abuse and know how and who to report them to. In my case this is the class teacher or a member of the Senior Management Team.

Does it sound weird that I was upset to hear about the gravestone being destroyed?
I understand it being removed, and my gosh was it tacky! But somehow I feel it's a shame that it can't be erected somewhere more private. Nothing written on it was untrue after all. Removing all traces of his tomb from the face of this earth is a bit... Marquis de Sade.

[ZenGum]

My only quibble is that it's a bit premature. Accusations first, then investigation and trial if applicable, then vengance by angry mob.

[BigV]

That's ONE way to do it, but it's really not the preferred sequence of events for most mobs. Four out of five mobs prefer getting right to torches and pitchforks.

[DanaC]

Well, there can't be a trial as the man is dead. There is an investigation going on, but the police have basically said, 'yeah...it's pretty damning.'

This owuld all be playing out very differently if he were alive.

[CzinZumerzet]

It is certainly gathering speed and momentum, and is now being investigated by four (or maybe five) regional police forces with complainants coming forward across the country. I think this is partly because of the time frame when he was 'active' possibly from the late 1950s right through intil the late 1980s.

Toward the end of my working life I frequently spend days in Broadmoor Special Hospital, a maximum secure psychiatric hospital where many - but by no means all of the the inmates - had convictions for serial rape and murder and both. These were offences of a spectacularly violent nature and the majority of these men are socio-psycopathic individuals who will never again be safe to live in society. There were about a hundred women patients there and these he visited regularly, parked his little caravan in the grounds and had his own keys to the place with was basically access all areas. The younger women there were actually afraid of him but his power and national profile made complaint impossible. I met him a number of times and found him very cold, impossible to connect with verbally and his eyes were everywhere expet on the face of the person he was with. I didn't ever take a liking to him.

He had imense power. Apart from his UK decorations he wore a similar decoration awarded by the the then Pope and regularly spent time with Mrs Thatcher including visits to her country house (Chequers) for Christmas.

Taking his knighthood from him posthumously is not possible as it is a lifetime only award so dies with the recipient, so cannot now be touched. Claims for damages etc can though be made against his estate which is considerable. My guess is we have yet to hear the worst and my instinct is that he wasn't alone.

[xoxoxoBruce]

CzinZumerzet, you may be interested in reading this story of growing up in Broadmoor as one of the administrator's children.

http://moreintelligentlife.com/conte...moor?page=full

[limey]

My God that is so creepy, Cz!

[Sundae]

Having read about the history of Broadmoor via Kindle, Limey, I must admit that this aspect of the story does interest me too.
Which makes it a small world CZ.

I'll follow that link when I have more time, Bruce.

[DanaC]

Just watching an episode of the current series of The Thick of It, and a character just used the line: 'Dear Jim, will you please fix it for me to...'

Which was how the letters to Jim'll Fix It always started.

Suddenly that innocuous little bit of cultural nostalgia, recognisable to any brit, really jarred.