11-30-2003, 06:29 PM | #16 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
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I can't imagine how those little pathetic exchanges led to a complete departure of the forum. I wouldn't have thought they represented an "explanation" of a "side".
I looked at the whole response and decided I wouldn't want a friend who operated that way. Or one who trolled everyone - insulting Juju's BABY? Mocking Syc for being on Unemployment? Where IS the line, anyway? I am not only not down with that kind of crap as a target, I'm against it as an innocent bystander. |
11-30-2003, 06:34 PM | #17 |
no one of consequence
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To be fair, though, "pussy" is probably uncalled for.
(edit: that wasn't intended as a direct reply to the above comment, UT) Last edited by juju; 11-30-2003 at 06:36 PM. |
11-30-2003, 08:22 PM | #18 | |
is stuck on altair-4
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Location: santa cruz, california
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11-30-2003, 08:28 PM | #19 | |
is stuck on altair-4
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Are you seriously bringing up the mocking of sycamore being unemployed? Give me a break, I've seen Dave and sycamore joke about that on here more than once. Just like they joke about looks and weight. Was it low of Dave to bring that up? Sure, just as low as it was of sycamore to bring up Dave's eye. Should it have ruined their friendship? No. Not in my opinion, and not in Dave's opinion either. Should friends act like adults and work through shit like this? Yes. They should. As far as your knowledge on the matter goes, you chose not to ask questions. LIKE I SAID, if you had asked about it, I'm sure he would have been happy to explain. Since the whole thing had nothing to do with you personally, I would say that your refusal to ask follow-up questions, and therefore the resulting ignorance of the situation, is your own fault. |
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11-30-2003, 09:24 PM | #20 |
Radical Centrist
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It's really sweet how you defend your brother like that and feel so entitled to just flip blame around hoping to cause some kind of collateral damage.
He didn't get his way. He didn't get respect. And he got all pouty and took his football and ran home. It ain't pretty, and neither are you defending it with your little complicated, invented additional drama. Because I don't recall you being on the CC list on our little back and forth, so maybe you have no concept and should just shut the fuck up while you're ahead. |
11-30-2003, 10:13 PM | #21 | |
is stuck on altair-4
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I think it's funny that you're completely willing to turn on him even though he did nothing to you. I think it's petty and childish of you, because you're a grown man. GROW THE FUCK UP. Just like everyone else here, I am reading and posting my opinions. I'm not adding drama. I'm not getting into the business with sycamore and Dave, simply stating what I know to be true. I'm not taking sides. I've said not one thing to sycamore about the whole mess, because it's not my place to moderate...just like it's not your place to do so. You're right, I wasn't on the CC list, but I have seen the emails. Therefore, I do have some concept of what went on, and like I said, I'm posting my opinion. Also, don't fucking condescend to me. |
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12-01-2003, 12:28 AM | #22 | |
The future is unwritten
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Posts: 71,105
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Tony going off on Jeni out of frustration because he feels she's doing what Dave ought to be doing himself. At least that's my take on it, but I've been wrong before, once in 1967, but that's another story. Dave, Mr in your face, over the top, throw an insult I'll throw back a grenade leaves in a snit? Syc, drops a couple of turds and retreats to the high ground and suddenly has nothing to say. Even lets Rho use the computer for a change. How in hell did April's thread stir up this kind of shit? Is it my fault? If I apologized to hayward for calling her a lying cunt would that calm everyone down? Well if that's the case..... Fuck it, you can all leave.:p
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12-01-2003, 01:47 AM | #23 |
stinky farty smelly
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So I don't know enough about what happened. All I know is what David told me, and the way it seems, I can understand why he felt prompted to do what he did. I just hope that all of this is worth losing a friendship over, and that's all.
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12-01-2003, 07:49 AM | #24 | |
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What WILL you do to throw blame anywhere else? Yeah, I suspect I'm really at the bottom of this somehow, although I never asked to be or wanted to be, and it only serves to confirm why I'm an anti-social bastard. I don't have many friends and I really really like it that way. Dave was not my "friend". He was some dude I know who lives 3 hours away. I have three friends that I treasure like gold and I would die for them. Everyone else, OUT OF THE GODDAMN POOL. Also, this confirms to me why I don't like GTGs and didn't have any for a decade. And why I won't attend another one for a decade. Christ. People: they fuckin' suck. |
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12-01-2003, 09:25 AM | #25 | |
"I may not always be perfect, but I'm always me."
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Please don't let this drama keep you from enjoying people that you DO like and trust. It's not even worth it.
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"Freedom is not given. It is our right at birth. But there are some moments when it must be taken." ~Tagline from the movie "Amistad"~ "The Akan concept of Sankofa: In order to move forward we first have to take a step back. In other words, before we can be prepared for the future, we must comprehend the past." From "We Did It, They Hid It" |
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12-01-2003, 10:04 AM | #26 | |||||||
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This had to be broken up due to size limits... my apologies in advance.
So, my email this holiday weekend has included a number of snippings from various posts here. That's disappointing, because it's compelled me to actually take time and respond. Tony said the following: "The fact that it's supposed to be some deep dark secret says much more: it's pathetic game-playing". Those are some big words. Care to back them up? You can't (they're opinion). The <b>fact</b> of the matter is that I chose to keep the details private out of respect for you and sycamore. I'm not sure about sycamore, but my respect for you was obviously very misplaced. So I'm opening it up, for everyone to see. <b>The Eye</b> The name calling with sycamore in the "Things you should do." thread started with my comment that, if you use standard viewing options, is at the very bottom of page 15. In it I stated: "I would think your number one goal, however, would be plastic surgery, you ugly bag of slop." He responded with "I'm there as soon as you get a new eye and a sparkling personality...", which is the <b>first</b> eye comment. I posted a frownie a few minutes later, one which I thought would convey humor (as I have previously stated in the aforementioned thread). It starts again a few posts later, when ladysycamore remarks "Not for all the money in the world!" regarding the idea of engaging in sexual intercourse with Ron Jeremy. I responded "And yet, you're with sycamore." - to which sycamore responded "And yet, Jenni's with you." Okay, nothing wrong here yet. We go back and forth for a little while longer. I said "And that being the case, earns the title 'Most Tolerant Person In The World'. (Rho gets the "Poorest Taste In The World" award. :P )", he said "That, or she's blinder than you.", making the <b>second</b> eye comment. I responded "I would think that would be quite obvious. (Incidentally, I'm the only one out of the four of us that doesn't wear glasses and has 20/10 vision. You fucking nerds.)" and he said "I may be a nerd, but how is your depth perception and peripheral vision?", making the <b>third</b> eye comment. We should note that up until this point, I haven't said anything about the eye. My response is then "My peripheral vision is quite good. The depth perception obviously is non-existant. Neither have kept me from having a job while you were collecting unemployment these past few years. (What's it like to be a burden to the state?)", which, to me, continued along the same lines of "playful namecalling" that had been thriving in this thread. Nothing more of the eye is said until lumberjim says (on the fifth post on page 18) "no fair picking on a physical malady". I addressed this comment as follows: Quote:
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Now, unfortunately, I have not exchanged many words with sycamore since the incident, but I can only be left to believe that he's referring to my post in which I addressed lumberjim's comment (seeing as he said "Yes" when I asked if he was referring to the eye thing). As I have clearly demonstrated above, he first brought up my eye, and made <b>three</b> separate "mean-spirited" comments about it. I say "mean-spirited" because they weren't inquisitive like Bruce's. I don't mean to imply that he meant to hurt my feelings, only that the nature of the comments is not productive. The next morning, the following has been posted by Undertoad in the same thread: Quote:
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12-01-2003, 10:05 AM | #27 | |||||
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I responded with the following two emails, to which I received no response: Quote:
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12-01-2003, 10:06 AM | #28 | ||||
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<b>The Departure</b>
When I got home from work that evening, I messaged sycamore on AOL Instant Messenger. The conversation went as follows: dave (11:48:50 PM): are we on not-speaking terms still? sycamore (11:49:28 PM): beyond cellar, yes dave (11:50:12 PM): that gonna wear off any time soon or no? sycamore (11:50:59 PM): don't know dave (11:51:11 PM): alright dude. have a good one. I was pretty disappointed, because I had been trying to salvage the relationship and it didn't seem as though he wanted to do so. I was also still disappointed with Tony's handling of the situation, though I had (mistakenly, it turns out) believed it to be in good faith. That having been said, I didn't feel that the situation was workable for the Cellar. The whole time I have been there, sycamore and I have been friends, and I felt disgusted and disappointed enough with the whole situation to call it quits. I would salvage the friendships I had, leave the rest behind and get on with my life. I wrote my goodbye post and went to sleep. As it turns out, things are not that simple! I emailed Tony the next day. Twice. They said the following: Quote:
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12-01-2003, 10:08 AM | #29 | |||||
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<b>lumberjim's thread</b>
lumberjim started this thread, and it's drawn a fair number of posts. A few different people have sent me portions of it, and I wasn't going to respond, but there are a few points I think that need to be brought up, and so I will do so. Quote:
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I don't want attention, which is another one of the reasons I didn't make a huge deal about it and post everything when I left. As for it making me look "childish" - what, trying to resolve a conflict is childish? You say nothing of the other players here? Why, because one of them is so grown up as to call names behind someone's back? If your measure of what is childish and what is not was the one that mattered, then I think this world would be a much worse place than it is. Perhaps you should wonder why you feel yourself so qualified to write about something on which you are largely ignorant? Because until these posts, you didn't really have any fucking idea what happened here. Quote:
I have a number of very good friends, and the reason I am blessed as such is because they too <b>act like adults</b> when it's necessary. Fucking around is all well and good 95% of the time, but when relationships are on the line, sycamore and you are apparently incapable of acting your age. He is 28, and you just turned 40. This is what you're capable of? Taking to a public forum to discuss a private matter that you declined to discuss with me when you had the chance? Oh, what a big man you are! You are 40 going on 8. Quote:
Here's where it gets even more absurd, folks! Talking about juju's baby or "Mocking Syc for being on Unemployment? Where IS the line, anyway?" - apparently not at making fun of people with disabilities, because <b>you didn't say a goddamn word about that!</b> Once when he was on the phone while in the TT on the way down here and <b>three</b> times in the "Things you should do" thread sycamore made a joke comment about my eye. Where were you then, standing up for decency? The fact of the matter is, you're <b>not</b> against it, and <b>you're a liar for saying so</b>. On 09/28/2003 you posted the following to LUVBUGZ in the "MotherF#$%@*!!!!!!" thread: "I warned you not to share a thread with me, you worthless fucking attention whore." You're not only not against it, but you do it as well! I made a habit of calling LUVBUGZ names, and you privately messaged me your approval: Of LUVBUGZ, I said to you "See, as you recall, I asked you about her a month or so ago. 'Cause I knew then that she was a babbling retard. And she's proven me right. Good lord dumb people peeve me. Who allowed her to get a computer?" and you responded "True. It did take about 300 messages for it to be proven to be completely without any redeeming qualities whatsoever. But true." After you and I were ripping into her on the forums, you messaged me the following: "You're a cat person, and you don't live in the city, so I know you've seen when a cat catches some prey and brings it home and plays with it. That's what we're basically doing." You said, on 10/03/2003 in a private message: "Thinking about this another way, back in the day we used to put annoying users through an organized silent treatment that was absolutely effective. For LB, this treatment would be devastating. I mean I almost hesitate to suggest it because it's so harsh, but imagine what would happen if none of her posts resulted in so much as a "who cares" post in response? For an <b>attention whore</b>, that's like torture." The emphasis was mine, but the words are yours, and the hostility is undeniable when referenced against your posts and private messages. I said to you, after an attack on LUVBUGZ, "JESUS CHRIST SHE IS STUPID." and you responded "Well yer doin' the good work these days. I can't right now, for some reason, but everyone knows and agrees with you and is happy to see it." Of my picking on LUVBUGZ and in response to something Matt had said and I forwarded to you, you had the following to say: "Well either way, it's vital important work you're doing.. keep it up." Does this sound like the type of person that is against the namecalling behavior? Not only not standing up to it (until I am gone) but <b>encouraging</b> it privately? Quote:
She's not flipping blame around; she's simply looked at all the facts (she's read all communications, including the ones I hadn't saved) and has made an opinion. Your attempt to discredit her is insulting only to <b>you</b>, because it shows that you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument and are forced to resort to ad hominem attacks to defend your indefensible position. |
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12-01-2003, 10:09 AM | #30 | |
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Either way, you're an extremely poor judge of character (by making friendly when I'm a true asshole, or calling me a true asshole when I'm trying to be a friend). So what makes you think your opinion on this is valid <b>now</b>? Suddenly you're a good judge of character? <b>Tony</b> I think Tony identifies with sycamore's unemployment because Tony, too, has been unable to find work. It's my contention that my comment about sycamore's unemployment was one of the motivating factors for Tony to join the discussion and admonish me publicly. (Notice how he calls me "David" in his post to the "Things you should do" thread, as a parent would address a child, even though he has never called me "David" before.) He identifies with sycamore because they have known each other longer, and because sycamore called him and brought him into this. I should have been smart and recruited Tony, but I didn't think this was going to be a big deal. And hey, why not attack the guy that's not around to defend himself? You sure do look like a champion now. So here we are, and you are acting like a child with hurt feelings. You say to Jen that she is trying to "flip blame around" - and you're acting like you and sycamore are blameless! I have <b>apologized</b> to sycamore for hurting his feelings, and <b>he did not want to hear it</b>. What makes a man more than being able to say "I was wrong, and I am sorry"? To you, it's apparently calling names behind someone's back. What it all boils down to, Tony, is that you are a 40 year old <b>boy</b>. You are, for whatever reason, mentally immature. You're smart, and so most of the time you can pass yourself off. But when you get really called on it, you resort to personal attacks instead of meaningful rebuttals. As someone that really cares about you, I want to raise one last idea before I'm gone for good. You're not a very introspective person. You have a hard time really diagnosing issues with yourself. Your mental immaturity is one of them. I hate to say it, but this is where having a male role model in your life would have helped. You have suffered without it. And it's sad, because I do want you to succeed and find happiness. If you don't believe this is real or affecting your life, I don't think you'll need to look farther than your "soon-to-be ex" for evidence. And if you think that had nothing to do with you, you need to think again. People don't fuckin' suck. Some are good, some are bad. Most are in between. Saying they suck is just an excuse for your inability to have a meaningful relationship with most of them. What this has shown me is that, like most of us, you're struggling to make it through life. You've got a long ways to go, Tony. I hope that you can start acting like an adult and find that happiness. I can only hope that you'll take this to heart. A week ago, you probably would have. I know that some things have changed since then, but a lot of things haven't. When you're ready to start acting like an adult, maybe the number of friends you have will exceed three. |
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