Court to hear IR heat signature case

[Dagnabit]

Well, today the supreme court is hearing an issue that will determine, to me, whether they have stepped over the line and are already abandoning basic rights.

The police in Oregon got a search warrant to examine a suspect's house whom they thought was growing marijuana. They took a thermal imager which detects heat signatures to the suspect's house.

Along the way they pointed the device at the next-door neighbor's house and detected a lot of heat coming from sections of that house. They didn't have a search warrant for that house and so the issue is whether this was an unreasonable search.

What's at stake here is all our privacy. The defense's argument is that the heat is outside the house. Upholding the conviction means that the police can use just about anything to survey us so long as it gives off some radiation outside our residence. My take is that a reasonable expectation of privacy means that if someone could hear you while they were walking down the sidewalk, that's allowed, but if they required an ultra-sensitive microphone, that shouldn't be allowed.

We shall see...

[Griff]

It is a big one alright. This hits "home" for me since I have a big mouth, when it comes to my anti-prohibition views, and tend to start alot of garden plants this time of year. So even though I don't use any drugs beyond alcohol and caffeine, don't mix with criminals, or anything else which would normally get a search warrant, I could easily end up with a shattered door frame or even some greater tragedy defending my home and family against invasion by folks who say they are the police.

[russotto]

Originally posted by Griff
It is a big one alright. This hits "home" for me since I have a big mouth, when it comes to my anti-prohibition views, and tend to start alot of garden plants this time of year. So even though I don't use any drugs beyond alcohol and caffeine, don't mix with criminals, or anything else which would normally get a search warrant, I could easily end up with a shattered door frame or even some greater tragedy defending my home and family against invasion by folks who say they are the police.

Remember, as Gordon Liddy says, when dealing with jackbooted thugs use a rifle and aim for the head.

(they'll get you anyway, but at least you'll get an honor guard in Valhalla)

If they get away with IR scanning (which they probably will), what's next will be even worse.

[Dagnabit]

Griff, you mean you start tomatoes and such indoors to plant them outdoors in April or so? That's pretty cool, does it work out well? What do you plant?

[Griff]

I'm a little north of most folks on this list so my plants usually don't get out until May. I save seeds from an open-pollenated (non-hybrid)tomato (Brandywine) and three different op hot peppers. I've had good success with most except one little purple Peruvian that requires an incredibly long season. If you take your time and harden them off gradually (put them out a little longer each day) without direct sun, harsh wind, or a cold snap its not too difficult. Now you've gone and got me in a mood, think I'll open a jar of those pickled hot peppers we put up last fall. SMOKIN!

[Griff]

"Remember, as Gordon Liddy says, when dealing with jackbooted thugs use a rifle and aim for the head." I hate to argue with the G-Man when it comes to weapons but I'm old school when it comes to home defense. At close quarters, which a home invasion would be, your shotgun is your best friend. If I had time to identify targets as real cops, I think I'd take my defense to the courtroom and sue the flora-phobes.

[Dagnabit]

What kind of lighting do you use? I would imagine peppers are used to a really hot, highly-lit environment.

[Griff]

I usually start them under a florescent with broad spectrum grow tubes. For heat, I depend on them soaking up enough sunlight through a south facing window. I use those plastic flats with the clear cover on at night to moderate the temp swings, until the plants are too big to cover. Next winter, when my house is more finished, the mass of my fireplace should keep my overnight temps from dipping too much. I guess many gardeners use heat mats under their flats which would probably give the peppers an early boost, that might be just the thing for those Peruvians.

I'm thinking about skipping the flo light altogether and just using the natural light from the picture window over the kitchen table (since I am a cheap SOB at heart). Hey, that may also reduce the storm trooper population in my kitchen! Good questions, thinkin of goin in the ganja business? Don't answer that...

[tw]

Basic concepts of radiation are forgetten when they are more interested in rights than in legal consistency. Previously, if you broadcast using conventional electronic transmissions, then anyone, including legal authorities, were well within their rights to intercept those transmissions. However if you made some extraordinary attempt to protect those transmissions, then your rights were protected.

For example, portable phone conversations are open to all to listen. If you transmit a conversation inside your house, everyone in the neighborhood is permitted to listen. However if you take extra precautions to protect that conversation - ie insulated wires or private encryption - then interception of that transmission is a legal violation; legal authorities are required a search warrant.

If you grow mariguana in your attic and someone transmits x-rays to detect it, then your rights are violated. But if you transmit infared from heat lamps in your attic, then anyone is open to receive and detect those IR transmissions.

Today, all these fundamental principals are lost in a society that is more interested in emotional privacy than is what does and does not constitute "actions that protect privacy".

If you leave your living room curtains open, then anyone has a right to photograph you. However if you cut off those transmissions (ie. curtains), then there is no public transmission to receive - your privacy is protected by legal concepts. If that reporter transmits waves into your house to detect you, then the reporter has violated your privacy. However if he takes pictures using infared film (because you installed inferior curtains), then the reporter is well within his rights.

You must take sufficient actions to protect your privacy - or else you don't have that privacy. Nothing new here. These are old and well established principals.

[Dagnabit]

Hey, yeah, they did say that in this case, if he had purchased lights that have cooling systems, he would have an expectation of privacy. That makes no sense at all with modern technologies. Every wireless caller has an expectation of privacy. Probably only 5% know whether their phone contains any encryption or whatnot. Nobody expects their body temperature to be broadcast 100 yards.

Next thing you know, in this country, you'll have to subpoena the data they had on you on the number of times you whack off, to prove to a court you're not frustrated or whatever.

Griff, a guy I know is in the ganja business, as I just noted in another thread... that's why I asked, he was talking about different types of lights.

That's why this case stood out to me, because his place probably does give off a decent amount of radiation.




[Edited by Dagnabit on 03-06-2001 at 12:01 AM]

[Griff]

"Griff, a guy I know is in the ganja business, as I just noted in another thread... that's why I asked, he was talking about different types of lights.
That's why this case stood out to me, because his place probably does give off a decent amount of radiation."

heh heh heh The good news is that as an owner-builder I took certain precautions when I built my house. I put a radiant barrier of reflectix insulation under my foam. That product has two layers of foil separated by a plastic bubble layer (like the packing stuff). If anything my house would look unnaturally cool. The man would also have to set up quite some distance from my house since it sits on a 50 acre parcel. Of course my behavior in putting this expensive product around my whole house would probably be used justify a no-knock warrant, which would get me killed. We need to legalize so Buford T. Justice doesn't have to make these rationalizations.

[Dagnabit]

Built your own house on 50 acres? Damn, guy, you're my new personal hero! I've always wanted a situation like that, where there are no neighbors to deal with and you can take a pee off your back porch if you want.

[Griff]

front porch brother front porch...

[Griff]

Check out my drug free household at http://home.epix.net/~griffins/

[Chewbaccus]

Doesn't matter. There's a sub-section of my borough where it's front AND back. Luckily, we were able to isloate them and establish a 50-acre "No-walk zone"

We call it "Renton". AlphaGeek can testify.

~Mike