Are you ready to ruuuummmmmble?!?!

lookout123 · 09-30-2004, 07:05 PM

Let's go ahead and launch the post debate thread right now, since some in the major media are already reporting on it as if it is over. (thanks for bringing that to our attention HM)

With only a very short time before the questions start, the Kerry camp is still arguing about lights on the podium.

link

Let the spin begin.

Happy Monkey · 09-30-2004, 07:54 PM

Well, the 36 page agreement says the lights should be on the cameras, right? Not the lecterns?

Anyway, on CSPAN they have Lehrer explaining the procedures to the audience. It's sorta interesting.

redsonia · 09-30-2004, 09:40 PM

Go Kerry! If people still think Bush should be re? elected after that debate, maybe it is the decline and fall of America.

lookout123 · 09-30-2004, 09:45 PM

i think the agreement allowed for the lights to be visible to the audience as well as the candidates, but who really cares? i thought it was funny that the media would turn that into a story in and of itself.

anyway - the debate just ended and the pundits are going to start the spin in motion but i haven't seen any of that yet.

i have to say that i don't think that went as badly for bush as i thought it might. it was typical political BS from both sides but no "bush-isms" that i can think of.

Kerry did a pretty good job of coming across as a human with passion, which is possibly the most important thing for him at this point. his positions, whatever they may be, don't excite anyone so appealing to John Q Public is crucial for him. I think he did well, speaking plainly. i think he has the Clinton closed hand, thumb point down well - to the point that he looked uncomfortable with the large amount of hand gesturing he did.

Bush didn't trip over his own words too badly. he played on his country boy act a little too heavily and his facial expressions get a little annoying after awhile. he did a good job of displaying his humor without delving to deeply into biting sarcasm.

in the end the american people saw very little of value - just another circus that the media will dip into for sound bytes for the next few days.

the only discussion point that i found very interesting was the bilateral vs. multilateral angle with N Korea. i found it fairly surprising that Kerry opposes a multilateral approach to negotiations. that may have been public knowledge before, but i missed it until tonight. i think Bush explained his reasoning on that position a little more convincingly than did Kerry.

in the end i don't see that tonight will cause many to change their vote.

elSicomoro · 09-30-2004, 09:45 PM

Call me biased, but Kerry just issued a serious beatdown. Dubya just didn't have it tonight.

Clodfobble · 09-30-2004, 09:57 PM

I wouldn't say a "serious" beatdown, but I do agree that Kerry "won," whatever that means. Bush got overly defensive a couple of times, and came off looking pretty immature to me with the "I know Bin Laden attacked America!" and "This stuff is hard!" lines.

I particularly enjoyed the series of exchanges where they were talking about Darfur, but at the beginning of every response they would quickly issue another retort about Iran.

I swear to God, though, the next debate better not even mention Iraq. I expect one debate about the economy, and one debate about domestic benefit issues, namely health insurance and social security.

Cyber Wolf · 09-30-2004, 10:03 PM

I was much more impressed with Kerry than I was with Bush. When Bush wasn't sounding like a broken record, he was being rather whiny and defensive. Not very impressive at all.

Kerry: The President didn't go to war as a last resort.
Bush: Uh-huh! I did too! Cuz I...and...I did too!!

Kerry: This was the wrong war at the wrong time.
Bush: Leaders don't say 'Wrong war, wrong time'! Awk! Leaders don't say 'Wrong war, wrong time'! Awwk. I want your vote, I want your vote. Awwk!

Went a lot like that...

elSicomoro · 09-30-2004, 10:12 PM

Bush reminded me very much of Gore in 2000: looking bored, getting defensive, butting in. I don't think this setting was Bush's strong suit anyway, but he just seemed to completely drop the ball. He was too folksy to the point of seeming childish and rude.

Happy Monkey · 09-30-2004, 10:15 PM

We have to wait and see whose facial expressions and body language gets replayed ad nauseam before we know who "really won". Will it be Kerry writing and nodding, or Bush blinking and smirking? I can't wait!

Kerry's "you break it, you fix it" moment was good.

redsonia · 09-30-2004, 10:20 PM

I can't wait to see the other debates. Foreign policy is supposed to be Bush's strong suit, however he came across as very defensive and really offered nothing new. Stay the course, stay the course. Well, if you're headed for a storm, you change course to avoid it. Anyway, he's weak on the social issues front and Kerry is going to stomp on him again.

warch · 10-01-2004, 03:00 AM

I particularly enjoyed Bush's halting explanation for his/their "miscalculations". Basically the deal seems to be that we were tripped up by our own shocking, awesome and quick "victory". Apparently the administration is hampered and challenged by being too good at what they do. Its rough.

Clodfobble · 10-01-2004, 06:55 AM

Did anyone else watch the Daily Show coverage after the debate?

While John Stewart was obviously throwing much bigger softballs at Wesley Clark, I must admit I was still very disappointed with Rudy Giuliani's report. There were any number of good things he could have focused on about Bush's performance, but instead he just doggedly repeated that Kerry was a flip-flopper; he flip-flopped in this very debate, by golly! I know he's got to stick with the party line and you never admit that your guy "lost" the debate, but damn.

garnet · 10-01-2004, 07:09 AM

I only watched bits and pieces, but it seems like George just keep repeating himelf over and over. We know public speaking isn't his strong suit, but he looked particularly bad last night. I'd have to say Kerry "won" this round, if that term is even applicable.

Cyber Wolf · 10-01-2004, 07:37 AM

Is it just me, or did Bush do his own flip-flop in this debate? During the debate, he insisted he exhausted all other options and that warring with Iraq was the last resort. But he also insisted that the offensive position is what we need and pre-emption is key. Now. How can you be on the offensive and use a 'get them before they get us' mentality and still call yourself using military force as a last resort?

slang · 10-01-2004, 07:52 AM

No matter where you stand, or which of the candidates you support ( or despise ), Curtis and Kuby in the Morning have a great rendition of the whole debate. They probably will be running this gag until the next debate.

Very funny stuff from WABC.

09-30-2004, 07:05 PM	#1
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Are you ready to ruuuummmmmble?!?! Let's go ahead and launch the post debate thread right now, since some in the major media are already reporting on it as if it is over. (thanks for bringing that to our attention HM) With only a very short time before the questions start, the Kerry camp is still arguing about lights on the podium. link Let the spin begin. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

09-30-2004, 07:54 PM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Well, the 36 page agreement says the lights should be on the cameras, right? Not the lecterns? Anyway, on CSPAN they have Lehrer explaining the procedures to the audience. It's sorta interesting. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-30-2004, 09:45 PM	#4
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i think the agreement allowed for the lights to be visible to the audience as well as the candidates, but who really cares? i thought it was funny that the media would turn that into a story in and of itself. anyway - the debate just ended and the pundits are going to start the spin in motion but i haven't seen any of that yet. i have to say that i don't think that went as badly for bush as i thought it might. it was typical political BS from both sides but no "bush-isms" that i can think of. Kerry did a pretty good job of coming across as a human with passion, which is possibly the most important thing for him at this point. his positions, whatever they may be, don't excite anyone so appealing to John Q Public is crucial for him. I think he did well, speaking plainly. i think he has the Clinton closed hand, thumb point down well - to the point that he looked uncomfortable with the large amount of hand gesturing he did. Bush didn't trip over his own words too badly. he played on his country boy act a little too heavily and his facial expressions get a little annoying after awhile. he did a good job of displaying his humor without delving to deeply into biting sarcasm. in the end the american people saw very little of value - just another circus that the media will dip into for sound bytes for the next few days. the only discussion point that i found very interesting was the bilateral vs. multilateral angle with N Korea. i found it fairly surprising that Kerry opposes a multilateral approach to negotiations. that may have been public knowledge before, but i missed it until tonight. i think Bush explained his reasoning on that position a little more convincingly than did Kerry. in the end i don't see that tonight will cause many to change their vote. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

09-30-2004, 10:03 PM	#7
Cyber Wolf As stable as a ring of PU-239 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: On a huge rock covered in water, highly advanced moss and 7 billion parasites Posts: 1,264	I was much more impressed with Kerry than I was with Bush. When Bush wasn't sounding like a broken record, he was being rather whiny and defensive. Not very impressive at all. Kerry: The President didn't go to war as a last resort. Bush: Uh-huh! I did too! Cuz I...and...I did too!! Kerry: This was the wrong war at the wrong time. Bush: Leaders don't say 'Wrong war, wrong time'! Awk! Leaders don't say 'Wrong war, wrong time'! Awwk. I want your vote, I want your vote. Awwk! Went a lot like that... __________________ "I don't see what's so triffic about creating people as people and then getting' upset 'cos they act like people." ~Adam Young, Good Omens "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out." ~Adam Young, Good Omens

09-30-2004, 10:15 PM	#9
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	We have to wait and see whose facial expressions and body language gets replayed ad nauseam before we know who "really won". Will it be Kerry writing and nodding, or Bush blinking and smirking? I can't wait! Kerry's "you break it, you fix it" moment was good. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-30-2004, 09:40 PM	#3
redsonia Wet Nurse's Aide Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bailey, Colorado Posts: 40	Go Kerry! If people still think Bush should be re? elected after that debate, maybe it is the decline and fall of America.

09-30-2004, 09:45 PM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Call me biased, but Kerry just issued a serious beatdown. Dubya just didn't have it tonight.

09-30-2004, 09:57 PM	#6
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I wouldn't say a "serious" beatdown, but I do agree that Kerry "won," whatever that means. Bush got overly defensive a couple of times, and came off looking pretty immature to me with the "I know Bin Laden attacked America!" and "This stuff is hard!" lines. I particularly enjoyed the series of exchanges where they were talking about Darfur, but at the beginning of every response they would quickly issue another retort about Iran. I swear to God, though, the next debate better not even mention Iraq. I expect one debate about the economy, and one debate about domestic benefit issues, namely health insurance and social security.

09-30-2004, 10:12 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Bush reminded me very much of Gore in 2000: looking bored, getting defensive, butting in. I don't think this setting was Bush's strong suit anyway, but he just seemed to completely drop the ball. He was too folksy to the point of seeming childish and rude.

09-30-2004, 10:20 PM	#10
redsonia Wet Nurse's Aide Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bailey, Colorado Posts: 40	I can't wait to see the other debates. Foreign policy is supposed to be Bush's strong suit, however he came across as very defensive and really offered nothing new. Stay the course, stay the course. Well, if you're headed for a storm, you change course to avoid it. Anyway, he's weak on the social issues front and Kerry is going to stomp on him again.

10-01-2004, 03:00 AM	#11
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	I particularly enjoyed Bush's halting explanation for his/their "miscalculations". Basically the deal seems to be that we were tripped up by our own shocking, awesome and quick "victory". Apparently the administration is hampered and challenged by being too good at what they do. Its rough.

10-01-2004, 06:55 AM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Did anyone else watch the Daily Show coverage after the debate? While John Stewart was obviously throwing much bigger softballs at Wesley Clark, I must admit I was still very disappointed with Rudy Giuliani's report. There were any number of good things he could have focused on about Bush's performance, but instead he just doggedly repeated that Kerry was a flip-flopper; he flip-flopped in this very debate, by golly! I know he's got to stick with the party line and you never admit that your guy "lost" the debate, but damn.

10-01-2004, 07:09 AM	#13
garnet ... Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 657	I only watched bits and pieces, but it seems like George just keep repeating himelf over and over. We know public speaking isn't his strong suit, but he looked particularly bad last night. I'd have to say Kerry "won" this round, if that term is even applicable.

10-01-2004, 07:37 AM	#14
Cyber Wolf As stable as a ring of PU-239 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: On a huge rock covered in water, highly advanced moss and 7 billion parasites Posts: 1,264	Is it just me, or did Bush do his own flip-flop in this debate? During the debate, he insisted he exhausted all other options and that warring with Iraq was the last resort. But he also insisted that the offensive position is what we need and pre-emption is key. Now. How can you be on the offensive and use a 'get them before they get us' mentality and still call yourself using military force as a last resort? __________________ "I don't see what's so triffic about creating people as people and then getting' upset 'cos they act like people." ~Adam Young, Good Omens "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out." ~Adam Young, Good Omens

10-01-2004, 07:52 AM	#15
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	No matter where you stand, or which of the candidates you support ( or despise ), Curtis and Kuby in the Morning have a great rendition of the whole debate. They probably will be running this gag until the next debate. Very funny stuff from WABC.

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