Jea-lousy

[Rock Steady]

A lot of good stuff here from all the posters.

Els, you always amaze me.

My wife and I have a different kind of poly, everything except sex. We have friends we go out on dates to events, dinner, lunch, all kinds of things. Mrs RS and I have some different interests, so it works.

On the other hand, being intimate at home with teenagers around is impossible. So, Mrs RS and I go to local hotels about once 1-2 months. I wouldn't think about some other guy being better or worse, just that it happens so rarely, that I want to be in on the action everytime.

[SeleneRati]

Okay, so for those of you who don't know, I'm ElSpode's wife. I've had a membership on here for years, but hadn't logged in for a couple due to the fact that I believe this is his space and his extended family. I don't like to tread on that, so I don't buzz in here often.

However, Els told me that he had posted about our newest arrangement and I couldn't stop myself from reading what he had written, and subsequently, what all of you had to say. In doing so, I thought that I should put a few things straight from my own point of view. Don't know that this will clear up anything, but might at least give a differing outlook for some of you.

I love Els more than anything. He is my life, and I adore him. I find him sexually stimulating and enjoy our intimate times together. However, that is the rub. It seems that although I know he loves me dearly, Els has a pretty difficult time finding me stimulating enough just on my own. For the past five years, we have had intimate contact a total of 10 times prior to this past month. Those 10 times only occurred after much begging, crying, pleading and threats of leaving. No woman wants to feel that undesirable.

After several discussions about how this might be resolved, I was informed by my husband that I alone was not enough to get his libido up. That, in fact, what he needed was outside stimulation in the form of either myself or himself having an affair outside of the marriage. Just talking about it this past month has increased the intimate contact between us and thus proving his point. Therefore, I have agreed to enter into a poly situation, although quite frankly what we are doing is not poly...rather it is an open marriage. Poly is where you are actually building family and Els is not interested in that.

Please understand, I'm not unhappy with my husband, I just want more physical intimate contact. That does not equate to direct intercourse for ME, however, it does for him. Thus, I am limited by what he is willing to do or not do. I am, quite frankly, tired of living like a nun, especially when I have always been an extremely sexual person. Would I be happy to only have sex with my husband....you bet. However, since he claims that's not an option, I'm doing what I can here to save our marriage.

I have laid all my cards on the table. I have explained in detail EXACTLY what I want and in what way and how it feels good or doesn't....and it ain't happening. XOXOBruce....Dear, Els is quite a prude actually...he likes it meat and potatoes and nothing inbetween. Even though our sexual styles have always been extremely different, I've always been more than willing to put aside my more spicey tastes, but when you only get to eat a couple of times per year, you get AWFULLY hungry.

I love Els very, very much....and I hope that this will improve things between us. But at this point, I'm feeling personally rather undesirable, and knowing that it takes another woman to get my husband interested enough that he wants to do me at all, is a pretty tough blow. So, hopefully, someone out there will be interested in me...so far, not having much luck on my end of things.

I'll hang out a little to answer any other questions anyone might have. I don't, however want to intrude on Els personal space.

Selene

[BigV]

<--my real face.

[BigV]

I seriously envy the courage, candor, commitment and communication you both are displaying. I applaud both of you, and wish you both the very, very best. I am in no position to advise either of you--I have no wisdom, no, revelations. I regret that I am unhelpful, both to you and to myself. I wish it were not so. I wish I had a fraction of what you (plural) have.

[morethanpretty]

oh wow...ummmm
so yeah...if my b/f ever ever made me feel so unattractive...I would beat the shit outta him. Els? what your wife says seems to be a bit inconsistant from your posts...and why so prudish? Kama Sutra can be fun!

[Rock Steady]

Els and Selene, thanks for sharing these personal thoughts. I have a hard time writing about Mrs RS. But, I'll try...

As Selene mentioned, Mrs RS doesn't think intercourse is necessary, but intimacy is. She just recently realized that, for me, intimacy is really wonderful, but intercourse is needed every so often. The drought was especially pronounced for the 14 years following our second baby.

Now, we are getting "back to basics" and I'm careful to take care of my own needs, which I haven't done in the past. Throughout all this I never considered sex outside the marriage. But, in recent years, I've enjoyed other female companionship within limits. I'd rather not be intimate with any of them.

Thru that lean period, I became resigned to no sex. But, now, in general, I am taking care of my own needs more, and addressing issues inside the marriage. I'm not saying this is better or worse, just that I couldn't handle the ambiguity of an open marriage.

[SeleneRati]

Rock Steady said:

As Selene mentioned, Mrs RS doesn't think intercourse is necessary, but intimacy is. She just recently realized that, for me, intimacy is really wonderful, but intercourse is needed every so often. The drought was especially pronounced for the 14 years following our second baby.

My reply:

First, I can't figure out how to quote someone, so forgive me on that.

Rock - I don't think that intercourse is necessary, but most certainly desirable. I'm more than happy to "do it" in pretty much whatever way. However, sometimes that is problematic, and in those times, intimacy without intercourse is better than no intimacy at all. I might actually not feel well one or two nights in a month, but mostly, I'm pretty much ready for it all.

Taking care of myself was an easier thing to do when I was working from home and the kids would go off to school and Els off to work. Now that I've been back at a 8-5 job for two years, I don't have the privacy to take care of much myself, and feel guilty doing so with Els in the house. I think that one person suggested I invest in a vibrator....I have quite a selection and more.

Just making sure that there were no misunderstandings.

[Elspode]

Inconsitencies stem from differing points of view. First off...what Mrs. Els doesn't play up too strongly, Gods love her, is my own issues with sexual inadequacy, serious erectile dysfunction from time to time, and the cumulative effect which that has on my rather standard male psyche. When, in a bout of frustration, I made the observation that I seemed to be more voracious about activity with her when we were involved with other people, her interpretation was that I simply did not find her attractive. Nothing could be further from the truth. She's hot, and to my eyes, always has been.

My issues are *my issues*. I do not really understand the reasons that I seem to try harder with her, or am more successful with her, when we are involved with others. I'm sure it is some psychological malfunction off of which a good shrink could base a paper. However, her take that she is not stimulating to me is a gross oversimplification, and does not reflect the way *I* feel.

As my own inadequacies gnawed away at my psyche, they took my libido with them. With no libido, I guess I felt like I had nothing to offer, and the intimacy suffered. I *do* understand how that makes her feel, but every time I attempted to engage in intimate activity with her, I was overwhelmed by my internal issues over my inadequacies, and it simply became less painful to me to avoid it. Less painful to me, more painful to her...and it wasn't fair.

It has never been my intention to mischaracterize anything. What I post here are *my* feelings and my points of view. I'm glad Mrs Els has put in her side. Believe it or not, we *are* a damn fine couple, with a few damn difficult problems in our lives together.

Mrs Elspode wants, paraphrasing her words, "someone to treat her like a girlfriend". I appreciate that, and I also realize that it is easier for someone who doesn't have to share the day to day difficulties of Real Life (tm) to provide that sort of attention. People who only get together for fun and frolic don't develop the same sort of emotional baggage that people who slog it out together day in and day out do. Still, we continue to pursue a more interactive relationship. We are a work in progress, and always shall be so.

Our concept of poly/open marriage/etc has fluctuated throughout our relationship. As I currently understand it, our marriage is open, not only because of my observation about me apparently drawing stimulation from our outside couplings, but because I simply wasn't putting out enough...not physically, not emotionally, not interpersonally. My understanding was that, even had I not perked up recently, it would be Selene's wish to seek those things outside of the marriage. I believe it is her entire right to do so. No one should have to live without physical warmth, intimate interpersonal exchange and emotional stimulation. It does help that neither of us have an inherent moral objection to such activities. I hope to remain perked up, as it were, but if she wants to continue in the open marriage mode, that's okay. If she wants to drop it, that's okay, too. As I've said, I'm not entirely secure about it, but I know that I've not fulfilled my responsibilities adequately in the intimacy area, and so I accept it.

Please recall that I said I have been ambiguous about all of this, and I continue to be so. Having my wife needing outside partners due to my inadequacies...be they physical, emotional, or otherwise...can be just as painful to me as my apparent response to outside partners is to her. We both have wounded self-images.

Here's what I know right now...we're closer, in better communication, more open and honest, and having a lot more sex - with each other - than we have in years. More details as they become salient.

[Elspode]

I would also like to mention that, as long as Selene is with us here, she is a *very* insightful person (hands down the best Tarot reader I've ever known, and I've known many), and does quite a brisk "business" as counselor, mentor and priestess to our large extended family in the Pagan community here in KC. So...if anyone else has interesting issues along the lines of this topic/bent of a thread, throw them out. She'll surprise you. She surprises me all the time. That's one of the reasons I love her.

[yesman065]

Maybe this is the sort of communication you all have been looking for? I think it is amazing that both of you are willing to be so open about these issues - I commend and admire both of you for doing so. I really can't imagine being as "open" as you guys are, but respect you both for your choice in the matter. ANYWAY, Perhaps in your conversations here one or both of you were/are able to realize something about the other that previously escaped you. Els, your posts, advise & input has been very interesting informative and helpful to so very many - I just wish I could somehow impart the same for you. I feel sad that i have no idea of what to say other than to wish you both find in each other that which makes you both happy together.

[Elspode]

Early on, we used to hash out fights from the night before via emails. Perhaps this is some new extension of that?

I'm sure that us airing all of this in a public forum is tawdry to some, boring to others and intriguing to still others. I don't apologize - we aren't ashamed of who and what we are. We're also not strutting around trying to bring tabloid reality to the masses. We know we're outside of societal norms. I'm pretty sure we like it that way to some extent. Ultimately, we are dealing with an interpersonal issue, but as Selene noted, you guys are my extended 'Net family, an endless source of support, insight and commentary that informs my day to day life, much the same as a flesh and blood, on-site family does.

When UT says that The Cellar is a Community, I believe that, and act accordingly. Just think of us as the weird but lovable freaks across the street, I guess.

[yesman065]

No, you guys are people and perhaps this is an outlet for both of you to utilize - even use to get that which is lacking perhaps. As they say - "Whatever floats your boat." If this gets your gear going - Great - just an idea?

[Rock Steady]

Originally Posted by SeleneRati

... Just making sure that there were no misunderstandings.

When I said "take care of my own needs", I didn't mean masturbate. I meant that I was always a pleaser in all aspects of life, a doormat that allowed my needs to be ignored. Now I'm correcting the pendulum between altruism and self preservation. Too much of either one is unhealthy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh, ok. Thanks for straightening that out, Selene...and belated welcome to the Cellar.

Dysfunction is a strange animal. Had a stretch where the damn thing wouldn't cooperate the first time with every new lover. Man, was that embarrassing, explaining in advance. But the ones that rose to the challenge, made it rise to the occasion. Also a stretch on anti-depressants was countered with Viagra. But enough about me.

You've gotten the work it out together advice, so lets get down to the nitty gritty. Elspode said he likes kissing....that's intimacy...and a start.


NSFW
Els ~ Buy a trunk full of toys, creams and props. Several times a week, go to town on that pussy until it's owner sings like a high school nympho. I'm talking sonic queefs and a vertical grin. If your dick wants to join in, make it a three way, if not leave him out. Oh, and don't forget her other naughty bits get jealous, so include them in the orgy.

Selene ~ Make him stick to the pre & mutually agreed on, schedule.....no excuses. Don't fake any queefing or singing or grinning...make sure you're satisfied....make him sweat, make him groove.

Now after a month or so, add some reverse play dates in between, where the roles are reversed. Keep adding dates until every night is booked, except maybe Mondays during football season. Hey, ya gotta be reasonable.

AFTER the evenings festivities, you can analyze and discuss other aspects of life. You'll be surprised how quickly you'll come to agreement on them.

Now if you two can't get and stick with the program, I swear I'm coming out there and supervise.

[Elspode]

Trust me, there's plenty of toys. Is it alright if I work myself up to speed slowly, coach?