Vaccination & epidemic

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Good job of proving my point... when unable to come up with an actual rebuttal, resort to childish name-calling. What exactly is up with the chip on your shoulder regarding education, anyway? You realize that I have a third-grade education, right... that I never went to high school, let alone graduated it, never took my GED, and I am so excited about going to college now because I'm thirty-eight and have no degree at all? I have sixteen credits in miscellaneous classes I've taken at PCC over the last 20 years, and that's it.

Everything I know, I know because I like to read about things, and I like to know as much as possible about something before I form an opinion. I also like to continue learning about things I'm interested in so that if I'm mistaken about something I can change my mind. I don't think that's a bad thing, and it's a trait I admire in other people.

oh look!... more reasons you're so great! yay tiki! you win at life!

Originally Posted by Tiki

So if you want to ignore the actual relevant content of my posts and fixate on your apparently terribly insecure perception of me as some smug ivory-tower twat, go for it, but in that case we really have nothing further to say to each other, ever, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped taking cheap pot-shots at me in every thread I post in.

In the last two days, I've addressed you in two threads, tiki. and in the other one it actually did begin as friendly poking...you insisted on taking it to heart and got all bent. even after i pointed out that i was just kidding around. whatever.

as far as rebutting your points, it's been done already. as i said.....clobble and jinx have done. the issue I was rebutting...that you seem to be ignoring...is this:

When you say: I find that a typical reaction to my pro-vaccination opinion is to assume that I simply haven't read enough.

after having labeled them lunatics .....YOU'RE BEING A HYPOCRITE!

you are making the same assumption you accuse them of making. you don't consider that maybe these people have done EVEN MORE research than you have done. seems like jinx might have done at least as much homework as you have, maybe?

On top of that, your whole tone is abrasive and shitty, and whether you intend to or not, you come off like you know better than the rest of us. I don't give a fuck if you educated yourself ....i have zero issue with your education. I have an issue with your smug super hippie attitude. you're the MOST creative...you're the MOST feeling.....You're the MOST sensitive.

barf

you wanna be strangers?

great!

Funny how Clod has been able to post, for the most part, with a minimum of courtesy and intelligence rather than filling her posts with personal insults and namecalling.

I may have used strong verbiage in my OP, but it wasn't personally directed at anyone. I was stating a strong opinion, rather than targeting an individual for personal insults.

Every interaction I've had with you since I came here - since before I came here, in fact - has involved you insulting me, Jim. Maybe you think it's "cute" or "friendly" to constantly make personal jabs at people, but I don't, and neither do any other adults I associate with. My repartee with you has nothing to do with me thinking I'm more "creative", "sensitive", or "feeling" than anyone else here... it had everything to do with you saying something shitty to me and me jabbing back at you.

Frankly, I think you're a bad person, and I don't want you to talk to me. You clearly don't like me, and I don't like you either. At all.

Thanks.

[lumberjim]

I see you've finally taken "Fuck you Jim" out of your user title.

It stopped being funny when I realized you actually aren't a nice person.

[lumberjim]

i've stopped being nice to you, that's true.

I'm still a nice person in a general sense, though.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

It's a concern. So much so that I worry about taking Max out in crowds because he could get whooping cough. I know it's alarmist to base my reaction on an isolated case, but my aunts friend just had to bury her 1 month old due to the disease. I don't want to take the chance, and it's a shame that there's a higher risk now than there was previously simply because some people choose not to immunise.

But the question is, do you not believe immunizing him will raise his risk of autism and a variety of other neurological and immunological disorders, or is it that you have weighed the risks given your family history and find that the risk of catching the disease is greater than the risk of the possible side effects?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

My argument is; informed consent should be based on real, accurate, meaningful and relevant information - and if that information doesn't exist yet, we need to go looking for it.

Here in lies the problem with most people when it comes to health care and any issue surrounding it, whether it be factual data about the risks and issues or the politics. The majority of Americans are quite ignorant about the issues, risks, benefits, and or relevant data available. I would estimate that a good 85% of patients get their information from the baby channel, CNN, or their equally ignorant family. Yea it's a big problem.

[Aliantha]

Clod, the latter, although I don't believe there is enough concrete data to suggest there is a link between autism and immunisation. I believe all our lifestyles have changed so dramatically since immunisation really began that there are a huge number of other factors these possible side effects could be attributed to.

For one thing, look at all the other chemicals we regularly expose our bodies to, and that's just around the home. then consider all the chemicals in processed foods etc, aside from exposure to pesticides in the air from farming etc.

I'm sure you get my point. I just don't think autism et al, can be attributed to immunisation. certainly not all cases, and possibly none.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i've stopped being nice to you, that's true.

I'm still a nice person in a general sense, though.

I'd like to think so, Jim.

But you sort of stopped being nice to Tiki for no reason, and you've been a bit of a shit to her, also for no reason that I can see.

WTF?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Clod, the latter, although I don't believe there is enough concrete data to suggest there is a link between autism and immunisation. I believe all our lifestyles have changed so dramatically since immunisation really began that there are a huge number of other factors these possible side effects could be attributed to.

For one thing, look at all the other chemicals we regularly expose our bodies to, and that's just around the home. then consider all the chemicals in processed foods etc, aside from exposure to pesticides in the air from farming etc.

I'm sure you get my point. I just don't think autism et al, can be attributed to immunisation. certainly not all cases, and possibly none.

I think there has been a lot of sensationalism around the issue. The majority of large studies have not found a cause and effect relationship. There is still so much we don't know.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by TGRR

I'd like to think so, Jim.

But you sort of stopped being nice to Tiki for no reason, and you've been a bit of a shit to her, also for no reason that I can see.

WTF?

I would suggest that you lack information.

I turned the other cheek longer than i normally would, believe me.

not putting up with the cyclical nature of this particular crazy chick's mood swings anymore, thankyouverymuch.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I would suggest that you lack information.

I turned the other cheek longer than i normally would, believe me.

not putting up with the cyclical nature of this particular crazy chick's mood swings anymore, thankyouverymuch.

WTF. Why don't you just leave me alone and stop poking me with a stick, if you don't want to "put up with" me? What information is there, that isn't visible on the board, except the occasions when you called me a liar in chat?

It would really be pretty easy to simply stop making shitty comments about/to me, or the over-the-top name-calling. It's not necessary and I don't enjoy it, and you don't seem to enjoy my retorts, either.

It's easy. I don't go around the board randomly saying shitty things to or about you, or calling you a liar in chat. If you stopped doing it to me, then I would most likely never have any reason to talk to you, let alone to be pissy with you, and we could co-exist in peace without EVER talking to each other or acknowledging each other's existence.

You clearly think I'm horrible

I think you're horrible

Let's ignore the shit out of each other.

[TGRR]

See? Easy solution.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Let's ignore the shit out of each other.

you have a deal.

on the count of 3, ignore....


1....



2.....


wait....


I'll count to 3, and then where 4 would go, we'll ignore. ready?

1....


2....


3....


ignore!

Just some food for thought, for those who still believe that the entire Wakefield scandal is about one journalist with a personal mission:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5070670.stm

I do put some blame for the reemergence of measles at the feet of delusional celebrities (and if you don't know why I call Jenny McCarthy a "delusional celebrity", it's likely that you have been lucky enough to have missed seeing her old website and the bizarre statements she made there - ooh, remember when she was all into the "indigo" thing?)
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.co...ount/Home.html