Senator Bigot

Griff · 12-19-2002, 07:00 AM

I really haven't followed this story too closely, but I was under the impression that Lott seemed to be apologizing for legitamit conservative positions. Obviously, the Republicans who are hammering him understand that this is a great opportunity for them, which combined with education choice could make inroads in the Black vote. I heard the head of the National Black Farmers Association condemn him this morning on the radio. There is little doubt that farm subsidies, which IMHO shouldn't exist, have been destributed as if Nathan Bedford Forrest were running the Department of Agriculture. I believe Lott has always been a supporter of nationalized agriculture, so the question is, could he have impacted distribution in his state? If so, he is a rascist rather than an opportunist.

tw · 12-19-2002, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
... so the question is, could he have impacted distribution in his state? If so, he is a rascist rather than an opportunist.

Lott clearly was a racist, but he also was an oppurtunist - as demonstrated by who he associated with even in high school. A major part of Replublican southern leadership are old Democratic racists. Lott was right in there and raised among them. He was also late to 'convert'.

Lott will lose his leadership seat only because he did not admit, up front, as his black advisors told him, that he was a racist. By the time he got to his third apology, it was obvious he was only digging a deeper hole for himself. Right wing conservative Republician suddenly endorsing affirmative action was clearly the politician lying to get out of trouble. It only made he look like a liar leaving the probability that, deep down, he remained an oppurtunist racist - somebody who would do anything to get elected - as he demonstrated in high school.

He was a racist. That will always be so. If he really was a truly 'converted from' racist, then admitting his past would have been no problem. For some reason, he refused to acknowledge his early mistakes. It will cost him. It therefore resulted in discovery of more tapes where he made more segregationist Strom Thurmond jokes. He has done this more than once after he supposidely converted from racism. Had he just admitted his history up front, then this all would have gone away. Now everyone is reviewing old Lott quotes and finding more of the same comments. This will burn him especially in a White House that is desperately trying to recruit Blacks and Hispanics to the party.

What does it take to undermine leadership? Ask Newt Gingrich.

99 44/100% pure · 12-19-2002, 08:55 AM

Real life, once again, proves to be soooo much more amusing than fiction.

I was wondering what sort of amusing observations the Lott Eruption would evoke here. I can't wait to enjoy as the debate unfolds. Bigot or not, Lott blew it big time, and didn't even get the apology right! Someone's got to pay, and my bet is on Lott himself, rather than the current Republican agenda. They have waited too long for this power ascension, and they're not going to let a gaffe like this derail their program. I predict Lott's a goner.

You can't pay for entertainment like this.

MaggieL · 12-19-2002, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
I was under the impression that Lott seemed to be apologizing for legitamit conservative positions.

Then you havce an odd notion of what conservative positions are these days. The GOP does not endorse segregaion as a part of its platform. And Lott's been kissing so much ass in apology that he's endorsed affirmative action, opposition to which *is* a legitimate conservative postition, so he's pissed off friends and foes alike.

Trent, you are the Weakest Link....

Undertoad · 12-19-2002, 10:04 AM

Should have started a Lott thread earlier. It's been a fun romp watching it play out. At this point the Ds have a win-win situation going for them. If the guy stays in power the Rs look bad and he has to vote yay on anything vaguely race-related from here on out. If the guy is voted out he's discredited and they have to give lip service to keep him in the Senate after his threat to depart.

The moron doesn't have the good sense to just do the right thing and resign his leadership post. Christ, even Nixon had the sense to get out of Dodge. YOU blew it, it's YOUR responsibility to correct.

From what I've read there aren't many better choices for the job. Ah the Senate... home of the most serious career politicians in the world, for whom nothing is not political. What a lovely bunch.

hermit22 · 12-19-2002, 10:49 AM

I think Democrats want to keep him in, because that gives them an obvious scapegoat. Not only that, it's something they can use in every Senate race across the country - Don't vote for that Republican, he voted for the racist for majority leader.

Of course, the #2 guy in the Senate, Don Nickles of Oklahoma, has a similar voting record. I think the best thing for Republicans would be to force Lott out and put in someone kind of moderate to give themselves some credibility.

wolf · 12-19-2002, 06:34 PM

I've just been kind of sitting back and watching the whole show ...

Frankly, I'm not entirely certain about why everbody's panties are in a bunch over Lott's statements.

He said some nice, off the cuff, things about an extremely elderly man whose party he was attending.

He didn't say "Wow, I think the country would have been a much better place if Strom's white man first ideals had come to power in 1948 and put them uppity son's of bitches in their place" ... he paid the old guy a compliment, most likely irrespective of the platform of the party he was running on behalf of at the time. Heck, if the Devil in the Blue Dress (Ann Coulter) is right, then segregation was a strong democratic platform plank at the time.

No amount of apology is going to help him, though. Being called a racist is very much like being called a child molester. No one checks the facts. The accusation is sufficient proof of guilt for many people.

If anything is true about this whole situation, it's that Trent is not the sharpest pencil in the box, and that he should never be exposed to a microphone without a script.

Undertoad · 12-19-2002, 08:23 PM

To me it wasn't what he said, it was the drawl.

That changed it from "Ha ha ha, maybe you were right all along, ha ha ha" to "Just between you 'n' me, buddy, you were right all along about the negro problem."

Second on the list of evidence was reversing himself on affirmative action.

There certainly is a rational argument, and even an integrationist argument for affirmative action. One could vote against it believing that affirmative action will actually hurt racial equality. Or one can vote against it because one is racist. Or one can vote against it because one finds it in one's best interests to be in good favor with racists.

Only the last reason would explain why one would CHANGE one's vote on the basis of a gaffe.

verbatim · 12-19-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
Frankly, I'm not entirely certain about why everbody's panties are in a bunch over Lott's statements.

He said some nice, off the cuff, things about an extremely elderly man whose party he was attending.

I agree. I think he was just ass-kissing at the time, but his comments backfired on him. He probably just didnt realize what he was saying and how deep things ran. Hell, I say stupid things all the time and nobody demands my resignation on their desk.

But it's fun watching a politician screw himself into a corner like this.....

MaggieL · 12-19-2002, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
Frankly, I'm not entirely certain about why everbody's panties are in a bunch over Lott's statements.

He said some nice, off the cuff, things about an extremely elderly man whose party he was attending.

An extremely elderly <i>Member of Congress</i>, in front of the assembled press in as conciously and deliberately political an occasion as Wellstone's funeral. The only difference here was that Thurmond wasn't dead yet (and presumably "didn't want to go on the cart".)

Look, a US Senator can't simply retroactively endorse somebody's presidential campaign without thinking, no how matter what a "nice old man" they may be now. You need to be mindful of what their platform was then and how it meshes with your own.

After all, Henry Kissinger is a "nice old man" too...right? Who's saying "nice" things about him? ;-)

Quote:

If anything is true about this whole situation, it's that Trent is not the sharpest pencil in the box, and that he should never be exposed to a microphone without a script.

Which I'd have to say is a deep disqualification to be Senate Majority Leader.

99 44/100% pure · 12-19-2002, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by verbatim

Hell, I say stupid things all the time and nobody demands my resignation on their desk.

The point here being that you are not a candidate for senate majority leader. I'm sure you're a lovely person, but let's face it, folks don't expect as much of you as they do of their distinguished leaders. As a private citizen, you are free to say all the stupid shit you want.

Quote:

But it's fun watching a politician screw himself into a corner like this.....

I agree wholeheartedly!

Griff · 12-20-2002, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieL

Then you havce an odd notion of what conservative positions are these days.

I was thinking of the MLK holiday and affirmative action in particular. I don't think the average Republican on the street is a segregationist.

The Germans have a word for taking pleasure in the pain of others, heard it in an old Carlin skit... maybe Dave remembers it . Thats where I am on political witch hunts, especially when they're really begging for it.

12-20-2002, 07:20 AM

Schadenfreude.

That Guy · 12-20-2002, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
Schadenfreude.

Sehr richtig!

Hubris Boy · 12-20-2002, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
Schadenfreude.

Es hat mir sehr gefallen.

12-19-2002, 07:00 AM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Senator Bigot I really haven't followed this story too closely, but I was under the impression that Lott seemed to be apologizing for legitamit conservative positions. Obviously, the Republicans who are hammering him understand that this is a great opportunity for them, which combined with education choice could make inroads in the Black vote. I heard the head of the National Black Farmers Association condemn him this morning on the radio. There is little doubt that farm subsidies, which IMHO shouldn't exist, have been destributed as if Nathan Bedford Forrest were running the Department of Agriculture. I believe Lott has always been a supporter of nationalized agriculture, so the question is, could he have impacted distribution in his state? If so, he is a rascist rather than an opportunist. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

12-19-2002, 08:55 AM	#3
99 44/100% pure Infrequently Astonished Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Baltimore metro area Posts: 324	Real life, once again, proves to be soooo much more amusing than fiction. I was wondering what sort of amusing observations the Lott Eruption would evoke here. I can't wait to enjoy as the debate unfolds. Bigot or not, Lott blew it big time, and didn't even get the apology right! Someone's got to pay, and my bet is on Lott himself, rather than the current Republican agenda. They have waited too long for this power ascension, and they're not going to let a gaffe like this derail their program. I predict Lott's a goner. You can't pay for entertainment like this. __________________ Overcompensating for the 0.56% that is irredeemably corrupted.

12-19-2002, 10:49 AM	#6
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	I think Democrats want to keep him in, because that gives them an obvious scapegoat. Not only that, it's something they can use in every Senate race across the country - Don't vote for that Republican, he voted for the racist for majority leader. Of course, the #2 guy in the Senate, Don Nickles of Oklahoma, has a similar voting record. I think the best thing for Republicans would be to force Lott out and put in someone kind of moderate to give themselves some credibility. __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

12-19-2002, 06:34 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I've just been kind of sitting back and watching the whole show ... Frankly, I'm not entirely certain about why everbody's panties are in a bunch over Lott's statements. He said some nice, off the cuff, things about an extremely elderly man whose party he was attending. He didn't say "Wow, I think the country would have been a much better place if Strom's white man first ideals had come to power in 1948 and put them uppity son's of bitches in their place" ... he paid the old guy a compliment, most likely irrespective of the platform of the party he was running on behalf of at the time. Heck, if the Devil in the Blue Dress (Ann Coulter) is right, then segregation was a strong democratic platform plank at the time. No amount of apology is going to help him, though. Being called a racist is very much like being called a child molester. No one checks the facts. The accusation is sufficient proof of guilt for many people. If anything is true about this whole situation, it's that Trent is not the sharpest pencil in the box, and that he should never be exposed to a microphone without a script. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-19-2002, 10:04 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Should have started a Lott thread earlier. It's been a fun romp watching it play out. At this point the Ds have a win-win situation going for them. If the guy stays in power the Rs look bad and he has to vote yay on anything vaguely race-related from here on out. If the guy is voted out he's discredited and they have to give lip service to keep him in the Senate after his threat to depart. The moron doesn't have the good sense to just do the right thing and resign his leadership post. Christ, even Nixon had the sense to get out of Dodge. YOU blew it, it's YOUR responsibility to correct. From what I've read there aren't many better choices for the job. Ah the Senate... home of the most serious career politicians in the world, for whom nothing is not political. What a lovely bunch.

12-19-2002, 08:23 PM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	To me it wasn't what he said, it was the drawl. That changed it from "Ha ha ha, maybe you were right all along, ha ha ha" to "Just between you 'n' me, buddy, you were right all along about the negro problem." Second on the list of evidence was reversing himself on affirmative action. There certainly is a rational argument, and even an integrationist argument for affirmative action. One could vote against it believing that affirmative action will actually hurt racial equality. Or one can vote against it because one is racist. Or one can vote against it because one finds it in one's best interests to be in good favor with racists. Only the last reason would explain why one would CHANGE one's vote on the basis of a gaffe.

12-20-2002, 07:20 AM	#13
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Schadenfreude.

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