US administration restricts Nov11 investigations - Page 2

Gabriel · 03-11-2002, 01:08 PM

The collapse of the Eastern block is not relevant in this matter.
I was talking about the post-communist era, the one in wich we are now. And now, republicans mean bad news to us, in my humble opinion.

I DO remember communism. Totalitarian regimes have a "je ne sais qui" wich you won't soon forget

Also... When I say "republican" I mean "republican administrations", NOT "republican party members".
Anyway, if you are pro-drugs and pro-prostitution (go Amsterdam!), how can you call yourself a Republican. What's the point? What's a republican, if he doesn't stick to party policy?

03-11-2002, 01:23 PM

That's my point - there really isn't a "party policy". When I registered as a Republican, I didn't sign something that said "I will do this and that but not these things." You are a Republican if you call yourself one.

George W Bush's presidency is too young to judge it. So is Clinton's. Let's wait 10 years after he's out of office before we start deciding if it worked or not.

Hubris Boy · 03-11-2002, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel
The collapse of the Eastern block is not relevant in this matter. I was talking about the post-communist era, the one in wich we are now. And now, republicans mean bad news to us, in my humble opinion.

I see. When you said "traditionally", I thought you meant in the "traditional" sense of the word. My mistake.

Of course, the "post-Communist" era in Romania didn't start until the PDSR and their buddies got wiped out in the 1996 elections...

... so, ummm, which "traditionally bad for us" Republican administrations were you referring to?

jaguar · 03-11-2002, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Well... good thing you don't live here, isn't it?

..............................Faith based inatives may be limited to the US but nukes are a global issue. I love it when the US tries to push its brand of globalisation down everyone's thraot then tells the to get stuffed when the us takes its toys and goes home because it doesn't like waht people are saying (i'm not pointing ot hubris boy as 'america' just a general thing) Nuclear testing ,weapons manufacture and the spread of weapons of mass destruction are not something the US can honestly tell the rest of the world it doesn't effect them.

Quote:

That's my point - there really isn't a "party policy". When I registered as a Republican, I didn't sign something that said "I will do this and that but not these things." You are a Republican if you call yourself one.

.........I thought there was kinda an element of allignment of views...i mean if i cann myself a communist then join opus die(far right).....i'm not really communist. Same applies really, you're very libertarian, pretty right wing, doesn't make you republician.

btw everyone www.politicalcompass.org try i'm curious to see what people get. It evaluates how authortarian/libertarian you are as wel las left/right wing. I got very libertarian, slightly left, i've forgotten the numbers.

elSicomoro · 03-11-2002, 10:50 PM

The parties have their "party line"--what they stand for. You can consider yourself a member of that party, although you don't subscribe to all those beliefs. By the same token, you can subscribe to most of those beliefs while not a member of that party.

I am registered as a Democrat, primarily b/c I generally vote for their candidates and support their views (and b/c I like to vote in primaries). However, I don't call myself a Democrat...I generally call myself a liberal. I tend to lean harder left on social issues than most Democrats.

Hmmm...I lean left-center, more towards libertarian (-3.75 and -5.38). *shrugs*

Undertoad · 03-11-2002, 11:15 PM

Mine comes up:

Economic Left/Right: 2.75
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -5.74

A centrist libertarian, pretty much right on. But I saw a lot of weirdities in the test.

For example, they ask you whether science will find a cure for homosexuality. I said "Agree"; I believe we'll eventually understand the brain so well as to be able to really do some weird things with it. But I wouldn't call it a "cure" under any circumstances, even if both the patient and the physician call it such. So was the question evaluated on whether you believe homosexuality has a biological basis... or because you want it "cured"?

Gabriel · 03-12-2002, 12:44 AM

The people of PDSR, which left in 1996, returned in 2000.
Pretty decent administration and all. We could do better, but instead of brain-washing my compatriates, I spend my time here ;-)

jaguar · 03-12-2002, 02:31 AM

yea the homosexuality question is ambigious. I took it as "we can cure it - its a disease" i think that is who it is meant to be interpreted. Not "will science be able to do it".

Griff · 03-12-2002, 08:09 AM

I had to skip a few questions and maybe should have skipped more. An underlying assumption of the whole test was the primacy of the state. It was interesting that they dumped a bunch of loaded slogans in there, like "my country right or wrong" or "think globally act locally." Although the latter one is generally a copyrighted slogan of the left (somewhat ironic in the states where the left generally supports highly centralized government) a rightist could easily adhere to it as well. I guess my question is how much weight are they giving to what is basically a feeling about a particular style of rhetoric? It felt like they were trying to keep people in their normal political herd, in this case Labor or Socialist rather than Tory, by making the choice class or nation. I wonder if they'd have a better test (maybe not for their purposes) if they asked a lot of these questions in terms of legislation? Of course my brother had a similiar reaction to the copy of the worlds smallest political quiz, which I dropped on him in the middle of a drunk, with all roads leading to libertarianism. Interestingly, it did end up leading a social worker, at the party, out of the clutches of the Democratic Party.

Okay enough qualifiers, Economic Left / Right 4.00 and Authoritarian / Libertarian -4.77 Pretty much a paleo-libertarian score although, I don't know how legitimite the test is with such fuzzy questions.Looks like I'm not an off the chart nutter, but it sure is quiet over here.

Oh yah, I was gonna comment on Gabs view of the Republican Party. Its unfortunate that the Republicans learned from the Democrats the value of overseas adventurism in the polling booth. That said, the GOP is a lot more than the bunch of religious nuts portrayed in our overwhelmingly Democratic press. At its core, you'll find small business people who want the party to defend economic liberty, and support law and order. If they were to get a little more idealistic about reducing government, supporting individual rights, and becoming less militaristic, I could get on board, but they won't so I can't.

russotto · 03-12-2002, 12:18 PM

One net.wag took "Think Globally, Act Locally" one more step to "Think Universally, Act Selfishly". Changes the meaning a bit...

--MTR, radical libertarian loon.

Griff · 03-12-2002, 03:20 PM

Any comments on the book choices for each quadrant? They essentially equate Thatcher and Lenin while calling Galbraith a left libertarian, language is a funny thing.

jaguar · 03-12-2002, 10:24 PM

Yea the book choices are...interesting. The site, or the questions are far form perfect, but they are interesting, and i think the best political indicator i've come across.

BrianR · 04-20-2002, 05:09 PM

Where are we getting these numbers everyone's bandying about?

I want numbers too. And I want to know what they mean so I know who to put on my terminate
list come the revolution.

I call myself Republican even though I do not always agree with the powers that be.
I support the legalisation of prostitution, but not drugs (old argument).
I tend to shy away from religion but believe in a Greater Being anyway.

I am too relevant!

Brian

Undertoad · 04-20-2002, 06:03 PM

www.politicalcompass.org

Griff · 05-02-2002, 07:04 AM

I wonder if George Lucas ever took one of these quizzes? If you need a weatherman to show which way the wind blows, he might be the guy.

'Lucas explained, “All democracies turn into dictatorships – but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it’s Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolph Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea… what kinds of things push people and institutions into this direction.” '

http://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial...es&action=page

03-11-2002, 10:50 PM	#20
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The parties have their "party line"--what they stand for. You can consider yourself a member of that party, although you don't subscribe to all those beliefs. By the same token, you can subscribe to most of those beliefs while not a member of that party. I am registered as a Democrat, primarily b/c I generally vote for their candidates and support their views (and b/c I like to vote in primaries). However, I don't call myself a Democrat...I generally call myself a liberal. I tend to lean harder left on social issues than most Democrats. Hmmm...I lean left-center, more towards libertarian (-3.75 and -5.38). shrugs Last edited by elSicomoro; 03-11-2002 at 11:18 PM.

03-12-2002, 02:31 AM	#23
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	yea the homosexuality question is ambigious. I took it as "we can cure it - its a disease" i think that is who it is meant to be interpreted. Not "will science be able to do it". __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 03-12-2002 at 02:33 AM.

03-12-2002, 08:09 AM	#24
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I had to skip a few questions and maybe should have skipped more. An underlying assumption of the whole test was the primacy of the state. It was interesting that they dumped a bunch of loaded slogans in there, like "my country right or wrong" or "think globally act locally." Although the latter one is generally a copyrighted slogan of the left (somewhat ironic in the states where the left generally supports highly centralized government) a rightist could easily adhere to it as well. I guess my question is how much weight are they giving to what is basically a feeling about a particular style of rhetoric? It felt like they were trying to keep people in their normal political herd, in this case Labor or Socialist rather than Tory, by making the choice class or nation. I wonder if they'd have a better test (maybe not for their purposes) if they asked a lot of these questions in terms of legislation? Of course my brother had a similiar reaction to the copy of the worlds smallest political quiz, which I dropped on him in the middle of a drunk, with all roads leading to libertarianism. Interestingly, it did end up leading a social worker, at the party, out of the clutches of the Democratic Party. Okay enough qualifiers, Economic Left / Right 4.00 and Authoritarian / Libertarian -4.77 Pretty much a paleo-libertarian score although, I don't know how legitimite the test is with such fuzzy questions.Looks like I'm not an off the chart nutter, but it sure is quiet over here. Oh yah, I was gonna comment on Gabs view of the Republican Party. Its unfortunate that the Republicans learned from the Democrats the value of overseas adventurism in the polling booth. That said, the GOP is a lot more than the bunch of religious nuts portrayed in our overwhelmingly Democratic press. At its core, you'll find small business people who want the party to defend economic liberty, and support law and order. If they were to get a little more idealistic about reducing government, supporting individual rights, and becoming less militaristic, I could get on board, but they won't so I can't. Last edited by Griff; 03-12-2002 at 08:12 AM.

03-12-2002, 03:20 PM	#26
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Any comments on the book choices for each quadrant? They essentially equate Thatcher and Lenin while calling Galbraith a left libertarian, language is a funny thing. Last edited by Griff; 03-12-2002 at 03:26 PM.

03-12-2002, 10:24 PM	#27
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Yea the book choices are...interesting. The site, or the questions are far form perfect, but they are interesting, and i think the best political indicator i've come across. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-11-2002, 01:08 PM	#16
Gabriel Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bucuresti, Romania Posts: 16	The collapse of the Eastern block is not relevant in this matter. I was talking about the post-communist era, the one in wich we are now. And now, republicans mean bad news to us, in my humble opinion. I DO remember communism. Totalitarian regimes have a "je ne sais qui" wich you won't soon forget Also... When I say "republican" I mean "republican administrations", NOT "republican party members". Anyway, if you are pro-drugs and pro-prostitution (go Amsterdam!), how can you call yourself a Republican. What's the point? What's a republican, if he doesn't stick to party policy?

03-11-2002, 01:23 PM	#17
dave Guest Posts: n/a	That's my point - there really isn't a "party policy". When I registered as a Republican, I didn't sign something that said "I will do this and that but not these things." You are a Republican if you call yourself one. George W Bush's presidency is too young to judge it. So is Clinton's. Let's wait 10 years after he's out of office before we start deciding if it worked or not.

03-11-2002, 11:15 PM	#21
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Mine comes up: Economic Left/Right: 2.75 Authoritarian/Libertarian: -5.74 A centrist libertarian, pretty much right on. But I saw a lot of weirdities in the test. For example, they ask you whether science will find a cure for homosexuality. I said "Agree"; I believe we'll eventually understand the brain so well as to be able to really do some weird things with it. But I wouldn't call it a "cure" under any circumstances, even if both the patient and the physician call it such. So was the question evaluated on whether you believe homosexuality has a biological basis... or because you want it "cured"?

03-12-2002, 12:44 AM	#22
Gabriel Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bucuresti, Romania Posts: 16	The people of PDSR, which left in 1996, returned in 2000. Pretty decent administration and all. We could do better, but instead of brain-washing my compatriates, I spend my time here ;-)

03-12-2002, 12:18 PM	#25
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	One net.wag took "Think Globally, Act Locally" one more step to "Think Universally, Act Selfishly". Changes the meaning a bit... --MTR, radical libertarian loon.

04-20-2002, 05:09 PM	#28
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	waitaminnit Where are we getting these numbers everyone's bandying about? I want numbers too. And I want to know what they mean so I know who to put on my terminate list come the revolution. I call myself Republican even though I do not always agree with the powers that be. I support the legalisation of prostitution, but not drugs (old argument). I tend to shy away from religion but believe in a Greater Being anyway. I am too relevant! Brian __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

04-20-2002, 06:03 PM	#29
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	www.politicalcompass.org

05-02-2002, 07:04 AM	#30
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I wonder if George Lucas ever took one of these quizzes? If you need a weatherman to show which way the wind blows, he might be the guy. 'Lucas explained, “All democracies turn into dictatorships – but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it’s Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolph Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea… what kinds of things push people and institutions into this direction.” ' http://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial...es&action=page __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis Last edited by Griff; 05-02-2002 at 07:06 AM.

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