Gay Marriage

11-18-2003, 03:23 PM

Many in the Right are calling marriage a "union between a man and a woman". I think it should be a "union between two adults". I support gay marriages and think they should be legal.

What do you think?

FileNotFound · 11-18-2003, 03:33 PM

Legal.

I see nothing wrong with the concept. Marriage is just a legal document saying that you have very deep feelings for somebody. If those feelings already exist, forbiding such a document won't make them go away, it'll just irritate the 'victims' of the law.

11-18-2003, 03:36 PM

Well, unfortunately, marriage has many legal benefits (as well as a few drawbacks) for those involved, and simply being "living partners" or whatever one chooses to call it do not afford a couple the same benefits. So marriage is technically more than just a document saying you have very deep feelings for somebody, because so many things are affected by having that document.

perth · 11-18-2003, 03:40 PM

So, if the Right want to play word games, why can't the Left?

Let them have the word "Marriage". Okay, only a man and a woman can marry. Let's have "Civil Unions", wherein two adults of either gender commit to one another in a legal sense, thereby gaining all the rights afforded to "married people". But we don't call it "marriage".

Then, when the Right starts screaming about it, the Left can say: "Look, we gave you 'Marriage', and we came up with a great compromise which should make everyone happy. You've protected the 'sanctity' of marriage and now you're pitching a fit over this. Admit it, you're doing this because you don't like gay people."

And then they look like complete assholes, because they weren't defending anything but their own bigoted ideas.

11-18-2003, 03:45 PM

I basically agree with you. However, I think part of the sticking point is that gay couples don't want to be seen as different or have their union looked upon as any different than a straight union, a.k.a. "marriage". I partially agree with them, but then I think, "Dude, just take what you can get."

I think "marriage" should be outlawed and everyone can have "civil unions". What we've got there is equality, and I think that's basically what the gay side wants.

FileNotFound · 11-18-2003, 03:55 PM

Why play word games to begin with?

Sorry if I'm confused, but whats wrong with using marriage for both cases?

Bible references? Who cares. Religion shouldn't be the basis of laws.

If a man loves a woman, then he should be able to marry her.
If a man loves a man, then he should be able to marry him.
etc..

It's that simple. Sorry for my obvious ignorance of the finer parts of the issue but I am somewhat confused.

11-18-2003, 03:58 PM

I agree, word games shouldn't be played. It's the Right doing it.

Griff · 11-18-2003, 05:46 PM

It should be legal. We've talked about this before but it seems really odd that so many right wingers apparently see a state recognized contract as sacred. Refresh my memory, wasn't Clinton the guy who signed the defense of marriage act?

tw · 11-18-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound
Bible references? Who cares. Religion shouldn't be the basis of laws.

And so you have defined the reasons for the contraversy. Not right wing - but extreme right wing religious are opposed to anything contrary to their interpretation of the bible. It is their right. However once they would imposed those beliefs on others, then we have a fundamental violation of the Constitution.

Underlying the demands from the religious right: they are obligated to save us from ourselves. Heavens forbid we should let gays and lesbians 'marry'. That would mean we all commit mortal sin. Something fundamentally new in the American public. There has been a massive change in the American political landscape. Something just under 50% of Americans say there is nothing wrong with religious beliefs being used to create laws. And so we have the religious extremists justifying hate.

Major factions of the Catholic Church would simply murder those who opposed their interpretation of church doctrine. I believe a whole Jesuit town in France was massacred in maybe the 1500s simply because the emotion called 'religion' was more important than even the purpose of religion.

Religion is simply a relationship between you and your god. Period. Once religion is imposed on others, then we have evil. A fundamental violation of American principles. However in their zeal to save us from ourselves, the religious right extremists would deny all this. And so they promote hate upon people they fear - gays and lesbians.

Once religion violates its fundamental roots - a relationship between a person and his god - the religion becomes the reasons for murder, death, massacres, and other social diseases.

elSicomoro · 11-18-2003, 07:07 PM

Griff, Clinton did sign it, but given that he was staring down a Republican Congress and all...

Gay marriages should be as legal as straight ones. Why not? I challenge anyone who opposes gay marriages to present non-religious amoral reasons as to why they should not be allowed.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-18-2003, 07:27 PM

If gays aren't allowed to marry, then all their natural children will be "bastards".

ThisOleMiss · 11-18-2003, 07:50 PM

I say let 'em get married. The reason: when a 'gay' relationship ends, unless one is older and wealthy and the the other young and greedy, there isn't a nasty court battle over who gets the silver or custody of the poodle. They've had it too damn easy for years. Let the have to put up with what us straights have been putting up with since forever, lawyers, judges, and property settlements. Let 'em get married, then let them get divorced, and see how well they like it!!

Damn, the lawyers would have a field day.

Personally, I don't care who does what with whom as long as I don't have to watch it.

Beestie · 11-18-2003, 08:30 PM

I couldn't care less what consenting adults do because they are able to take resonsibility for their actions. I don't really see why gay adults can't enjoy some of the legal protections provided by the legal institution of marriage.

The adult question is easy. It gets really tough for me when children get involved.

As soon as the gay marriage question gets resolved, the children question will be next.

Can/should gay male couples be allowed to adopt? Call me a neanderthal but I am not ready for that.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-18-2003, 10:01 PM

OK Beestie you're a neanderthal. Me too.
The adults making there own decisions I can take a rational tact. The adoption on the other hand doesn't feel right in my gut and no amount of rationalization will make it go away.

juju · 11-19-2003, 12:31 AM

What's wrong with them having children? Any specific points?

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11-18-2003, 03:23 PM	#1
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Gay Marriage Many in the Right are calling marriage a "union between a man and a woman". I think it should be a "union between two adults". I support gay marriages and think they should be legal. What do you think?

11-18-2003, 03:33 PM	#2
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	Legal. I see nothing wrong with the concept. Marriage is just a legal document saying that you have very deep feelings for somebody. If those feelings already exist, forbiding such a document won't make them go away, it'll just irritate the 'victims' of the law. __________________ This is a rat. \|This is a hamster.\| This is a chipmunk.\| This is a Sheep Rider.

11-18-2003, 03:55 PM	#6
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	Why play word games to begin with? Sorry if I'm confused, but whats wrong with using marriage for both cases? Bible references? Who cares. Religion shouldn't be the basis of laws. If a man loves a woman, then he should be able to marry her. If a man loves a man, then he should be able to marry him. etc.. It's that simple. Sorry for my obvious ignorance of the finer parts of the issue but I am somewhat confused. __________________ This is a rat. \|This is a hamster.\| This is a chipmunk.\| This is a Sheep Rider.

11-18-2003, 05:46 PM	#8
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	It should be legal. We've talked about this before but it seems really odd that so many right wingers apparently see a state recognized contract as sacred. Refresh my memory, wasn't Clinton the guy who signed the defense of marriage act? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-18-2003, 03:36 PM	#3
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Well, unfortunately, marriage has many legal benefits (as well as a few drawbacks) for those involved, and simply being "living partners" or whatever one chooses to call it do not afford a couple the same benefits. So marriage is technically more than just a document saying you have very deep feelings for somebody, because so many things are affected by having that document.

11-18-2003, 03:40 PM	#4
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	So, if the Right want to play word games, why can't the Left? Let them have the word "Marriage". Okay, only a man and a woman can marry. Let's have "Civil Unions", wherein two adults of either gender commit to one another in a legal sense, thereby gaining all the rights afforded to "married people". But we don't call it "marriage". Then, when the Right starts screaming about it, the Left can say: "Look, we gave you 'Marriage', and we came up with a great compromise which should make everyone happy. You've protected the 'sanctity' of marriage and now you're pitching a fit over this. Admit it, you're doing this because you don't like gay people." And then they look like complete assholes, because they weren't defending anything but their own bigoted ideas.

11-18-2003, 03:45 PM	#5
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I basically agree with you. However, I think part of the sticking point is that gay couples don't want to be seen as different or have their union looked upon as any different than a straight union, a.k.a. "marriage". I partially agree with them, but then I think, "Dude, just take what you can get." I think "marriage" should be outlawed and everyone can have "civil unions". What we've got there is equality, and I think that's basically what the gay side wants.

11-18-2003, 03:58 PM	#7
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I agree, word games shouldn't be played. It's the Right doing it.

11-18-2003, 07:07 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Griff, Clinton did sign it, but given that he was staring down a Republican Congress and all... Gay marriages should be as legal as straight ones. Why not? I challenge anyone who opposes gay marriages to present non-religious amoral reasons as to why they should not be allowed.

11-18-2003, 07:27 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If gays aren't allowed to marry, then all their natural children will be "bastards". __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-18-2003, 07:50 PM	#12
ThisOleMiss Resident President Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Very, very, rural Mississippi Posts: 83	I say let 'em get married. The reason: when a 'gay' relationship ends, unless one is older and wealthy and the the other young and greedy, there isn't a nasty court battle over who gets the silver or custody of the poodle. They've had it too damn easy for years. Let the have to put up with what us straights have been putting up with since forever, lawyers, judges, and property settlements. Let 'em get married, then let them get divorced, and see how well they like it!! Damn, the lawyers would have a field day. Personally, I don't care who does what with whom as long as I don't have to watch it. __________________ Why kill them when you can make them live and suffer?

11-18-2003, 08:30 PM	#13
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I couldn't care less what consenting adults do because they are able to take resonsibility for their actions. I don't really see why gay adults can't enjoy some of the legal protections provided by the legal institution of marriage. The adult question is easy. It gets really tough for me when children get involved. As soon as the gay marriage question gets resolved, the children question will be next. Can/should gay male couples be allowed to adopt? Call me a neanderthal but I am not ready for that. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

11-18-2003, 10:01 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	OK Beestie you're a neanderthal. Me too. The adults making there own decisions I can take a rational tact. The adoption on the other hand doesn't feel right in my gut and no amount of rationalization will make it go away. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-19-2003, 12:31 AM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	What's wrong with them having children? Any specific points?

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