Stupid White Men

[Joth]

I've just read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men, and a lot of it has scared and worried me. Is it really all that bad over there?
How much of it is true/do you believe?
And has any of it inspired any of you who've read it to go out there and do some of the things it suggests?
Finally, is Michael Moore actually on here?

Michael Moore is just like any other extremist. No, it's not that bad over here. Would you pay any attention to Pat Buchanan or Jerry Falwell?

[vsp]

Michael Moore has one significant thing in his favor that most of his ultra-right/ultra-religious counterparts do not -- a sense of humor, often one that's self-deprecating. (Buchanan, for all his xenophobic tendencies and hateful rhetoric, can be surprisingly self-aware at times; dig up his conversations with Hunter S. Thompson, for example, or his frank admission that the "liberal media" charges are mostly a bunch of hooey.)

Most of Moore's rants have at least a kernel of truth to them, often more than that, and they make for great reading and TV.

As for "is it that bad," depends on the context you're referring to, but the answer is often "yes, it is." Not that America was peaches and sunshine and love and peace while Clinton was President, either, but things have been getting verrrrrrrrry ugly since he left.

Things have been getting verrrrrrrrrrry bad since September 11. It's not all roses, but it's hardly the bleak picture the extreme leftists paint it out to be.

[juju]

You can go to his website, michaelmoore.com, and read the messages he sends out to his mailing list, if you want more info.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I consider Moore more an entertainer than an investigative reporter. Since 9/11 I've seen a tremendous increase in potential for ugliness than actual ugliness. But, the power is there.

[SteveDallas]

I dunno... over the past period of years I have really gotten this impression that there is only one acceptable opinion.. manufactured by the politicians and the media in chahoots. Any differing opinion that you might hold is unacceptable and dangerous. Actual attempts to report facts seem fewer and farther between.

I didn't start to have this feeling after 9/11. But it sure got a lot worse.

[Undertoad]

Well don't hold back... let us know what that ONE opinion is so that we can hold it and avoid trouble!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sometimes you come on contact with certain people that just "light up" in the middle of a conversation when they think of some funny or sick-assed quip. So you find yourself waiting for it because you just know it's coming. After 9/11 I'd see people "light up" but the quip never comes. You could almost see them swallowing it. Self censorship extreme. I still haven't heard a lot of jokes or sick remarks about 9/11 and that's very unusual.
I'm thinking the same thing is carrying over to political thought in mainstream America. The Gumint is like a spouse. Don't let them even think you're not onboard.
Cellarites excepted.

[elSicomoro]

Joth, yes...I think Undertoad is really Michael Moore. He just changes his views on here to throw people off. UT looks like him, and kinda sounds like him too. (Proof)

I saw Michael Moore on Donahue last summer, and really liked what he was saying for the most part. However, since the release of his movie, and the whole Oscar speech, he's starting to sound as whiny as Ann Coulter.

But in the end, the left needs a few more nuts. Prior to him, the only really obvious ones to me were Al Franken and Larry Kuby.

As scary as it is, sometimes, Pat Buchanan comes across to me as incredibly reasonable.

Now, are things "that bad" on this side of the pond? Well, Moore's book came out 5 months after 9/11, and I have yet to read it. Having said that, and putting 9/11 aside, the United States is still a great country. Yeah, we have our problems: the manufacturing sector is dying, our poverty rate isn't great, and we have quite a few people out of work right now. And of course, we could talk about racism, 9/11 aftereffects, blah blah blah.

But the good greatly overshadows the bad, IMO.* After all, the Cellar is Philadelphia-born and bred. Need I say more?

*--For the record, Sycamore is not a flag-waving patriotic yahoo.

[tw]

Something just doesn't sound right when to exercise Philadelphia Freedom, one must go into the cellar.

[vsp]

As far as 9/11 goes, every time you hear a politician, pundit, coworker or columnist spout the "Everything changed after 9/11" line, and PARTICULARLY if they use it as a justification for some military action or reduction of personal freedom, feel free to club that person repeatedly with a large, blunt object until they admit that they're being ridiculous.

[xoxoxoBruce]

"Everything changed after 9/11" line

But it's true. Attitudes therefore strategies and priorities changed. Not necessarily justified, but sadly true.

[vsp]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
But it's true. Attitudes therefore strategies and priorities changed. Not necessarily justified, but sadly true.

SOME attitudes changed.

SOME strategies and priorities changed.

They changed for people who wanted them to change, or allowed them to change.

They changed, primarily, for those who allowed the actions of a small group to alter their attitudes towards a region, a nation or a religion as a whole.

They changed for those who previously held an "Everything the US does is good, and the rest of the world respects and admires us" attitude -- and in that case, change is good.

They changed for those in the government that used 9/11 as a pretext to do things (here and abroad) that they'd wanted to do all along, and cranked up their aggression several notches in the name of the "war on terra."

And, in changing, they annoyed the heck out of the rest of us.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by vsp
And, in changing, they annoyed the heck out of the rest of us.

The rest of you, huh? Are you saying nothing changed for you on 9/11? You don't think maybe our security was a little lacking?

Maybe you disagree about how it's being fixed, but surely you don't think everything should have just continued as normal?