NASA Disovers New Lifeform

freshnesschronic · 12-02-2010, 01:47 PM

http://gizmodo.com/5704158/nasa-finds-new-life

Quote:

NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe Simon and her team have found a bacteria whose DNA is completely alien to what we know today. Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks. All life on Earth is made of six components: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Every being, from the smallest amoeba to the largest whale, share the same life stream. Our DNA blocks are all the same.

Quote:

The implications of this discovery are enormous to our understanding of life itself and the possibility of finding beings in other planets that don't have to be like planet Earth. Like NASA's Ed Weiler says: "The definition of life has just expanded. As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it."

xoxoxoBruce · 12-02-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks.

Arsenic being poison, it sounds like the "life" forms are not food. Throw them back... next.

Quote:

As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it.

Yeah, if we don't find life forms, we'll expand the definition until we do.

Eureka, I've found it!
That's the rock I tripped over yesterday.
That was yesterday, today it's a lifeform.

I can see expanding the markers for initial searching so they don't overlook something, but don't they have a certain list of qualifications, that constitute a lifeform, a definition of a lifeform? Like it has to grow, or reproduce, or even eat, I mean it doesn't have to write sonatas, but something.

glatt · 12-02-2010, 03:39 PM

I don't have the biochemistry to completely understand this, but doesn't DNA stand for a big long word like dioxyribonucleic acid, or something like that? And isn't DNA made up of all these bases? The As and Cs and Ts and Gs? And isn't each "A" an actual specific chemical? (And so on.)

If we're switching chemicals here, so that the formula for each base pair is different, then how can they call it DNA? DNA has a specific chemical formula. wouldn't they have to make up a new name for it? Does the "DNA" in this bacteria have the same double helix shape?

xoxoxoBruce · 12-02-2010, 03:42 PM

Is that what they are saying, or are they saying a lifeform no longer needs DNA to qualify as such?

Lamplighter · 12-02-2010, 03:45 PM

Maybe it's like carbon-based oils vs silicon-based oils.

Silicone oil works better in SillyPutty.

Happy Monkey · 12-02-2010, 03:50 PM

More detail. It does have double helix "DNA" (I'm not sure if the phosphorus-arsenic switch is enough to rename it). The phosphorus is replaced by arsenic in the DNA and other parts of the cells. The two elements are similar, but arsenic is less stable in these molecules. These bacteria have apparently overcome that instability.

[Not sure whether this is exactly what the NASA announcement was about, but it certainly seems related]

Shawnee123 · 12-02-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Maybe it's like carbon-based oils vs silicon-based oils.

Silicone oil works better in SillyPutty.

I just had a billion dollar idea. Remember, you heard it here first. Just a novelty item, but a "putty" that you can stretch and press onto your computer screen to get an image...just like silly putty with newspaper. Then you can stretch it and make funny things. I want to silly grab that picture Flint has been posting. That would be great silly putty fodder!

Happy Monkey · 12-02-2010, 06:42 PM

Another good description.

kerosene · 12-02-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks.

Why is it I keep running into references to my husband's ex? It just never ends!

Lamplighter · 12-02-2010, 07:28 PM

Fantastic idea Shaw, I want 2nd-market rights for printing onto balloons.

Shawnee123 · 12-02-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Fantastic idea Shaw, I want 2nd-market rights for printing onto balloons.

Too bad we don't know any technical genius types.

I don't know what 2nd market rights are, but you got it.

Now, you technical genius types, this can probably be done fairly easily. Get crackin'!

Flint · 12-03-2010, 09:11 AM

Interesting information heard on NPR this morning:

This wasn't an accidental discovery, she was looking for it. Felisa Wolfe Simon was fascinated by animals that make chemical substitutions (such as crustaceans substituting copper for iron to carry the oxygen in their bloodstream) and so she went to an arsenic-rich environment hoping to find this.

The arsenic doesn't completely replace all the phosphorus in the DNA of these bacteria. But I guess you could call it a proof of concept.

footfootfoot · 12-03-2010, 09:46 AM

Humans do that with lead (not in our DNA AFAIK) if our diets are lacking in Iron or Calcium and Lead is available the body will take up lead in place of Iron or Calcium. Though with potentially serious negative consequences.

Lamplighter · 12-03-2010, 09:52 AM

The bacteria were isolated from Mono Lake, CA.,
The lake is large and spectacular...
and well worth Googling via Web, Map(satellite) and Images.

Here is one image of the tufa:

richlevy · 12-04-2010, 09:06 PM

They went looking for this stuff? Hmmm. Sounds familiar.....

Quote:

Dr. Jeremy Stone: According to this, there'll be a super-colony of Andromeda over the entire southwest in...
Dr. Charles Dutton: Jeremy! These are biological *warfare* maps!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: Why, yes... so they are... uh... but... simulations, Charlie. Defensive... it's just a scenario.
Dr. Ruth Leavitt: That's not the POINT, for God's sake! Wildfire was built for germ warfare! Wildfire AND Scoop! And you knew, Stone! YOU KNEW IT!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: That's not true, Ruth! I learned about Scoop the same time you did!
Dr. Charles Dutton: They already have Andromeda programmed! The purpose of Scoop was to find new biological weapons in outer space, and then use Wildfire to develop them!
Dr. Ruth Leavitt: It STINKS, Stone!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: You're blowing your tops! We have no proof...
Dr. Charles Dutton: The MAP!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: DON'T BE AN ASS! That map only shows what Andromeda *could* do in the hands of an enemy!
Dr. Charles Dutton: Enemy? We did it to OURSELVES!

Kidding.

12-02-2010, 03:42 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Is that what they are saying, or are they saying a lifeform no longer needs DNA to qualify as such? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-02-2010, 03:50 PM	#6
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	More detail. It does have double helix "DNA" (I'm not sure if the phosphorus-arsenic switch is enough to rename it). The phosphorus is replaced by arsenic in the DNA and other parts of the cells. The two elements are similar, but arsenic is less stable in these molecules. These bacteria have apparently overcome that instability. [Not sure whether this is exactly what the NASA announcement was about, but it certainly seems related] __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

12-02-2010, 06:42 PM	#8
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Another good description. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

12-03-2010, 09:11 AM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Interesting information heard on NPR this morning: This wasn't an accidental discovery, she was looking for it. Felisa Wolfe Simon was fascinated by animals that make chemical substitutions (such as crustaceans substituting copper for iron to carry the oxygen in their bloodstream) and so she went to an arsenic-rich environment hoping to find this. The arsenic doesn't completely replace all the phosphorus in the DNA of these bacteria. But I guess you could call it a proof of concept. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-03-2010, 09:46 AM	#13
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Humans do that with lead (not in our DNA AFAIK) if our diets are lacking in Iron or Calcium and Lead is available the body will take up lead in place of Iron or Calcium. Though with potentially serious negative consequences. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

12-02-2010, 03:39 PM	#3
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I don't have the biochemistry to completely understand this, but doesn't DNA stand for a big long word like dioxyribonucleic acid, or something like that? And isn't DNA made up of all these bases? The As and Cs and Ts and Gs? And isn't each "A" an actual specific chemical? (And so on.) If we're switching chemicals here, so that the formula for each base pair is different, then how can they call it DNA? DNA has a specific chemical formula. wouldn't they have to make up a new name for it? Does the "DNA" in this bacteria have the same double helix shape?

12-02-2010, 03:45 PM	#5
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	Maybe it's like carbon-based oils vs silicon-based oils. Silicone oil works better in SillyPutty.

12-02-2010, 07:28 PM	#10
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	Fantastic idea Shaw, I want 2nd-market rights for printing onto balloons.

12-03-2010, 09:52 AM	#14
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	The bacteria were isolated from Mono Lake, CA., The lake is large and spectacular... and well worth Googling via Web, Map(satellite) and Images. Here is one image of the tufa: Attached Images

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