Why Do People Hate the USA

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by spinningfetus

Sorry, you have it backwards. The arms you were thinking about were the ones we tried to trade for hostiges, but the reigm (sp?) that deposed the Shah was most definitely NOT our ally.

Actually, much of what was up for trade in the Iran-Contra deal was spare parts for stuff we originally gave/sold to the Shah....notably F-4 and C-130s, which were slowly falling out of servicable status as parts-on-hand dried up after the Shah was deposed. After the Shah was gone, the Iranians got a lot of stuff from the Israelis.

A google yeilded this site in which the GAO found that we were in fact supplying Saddam.

While Iraq may have gotten some parts and helos from US sources (and computers, of course; who would be dumb enough to try to use Russian computers?), the LOC Iraqi "Country Study"reports:
<blockquote>
"Since 1959 the Soviet Union has been Iraq's chief arms supplier and its most essential foreign military tie. In April 1972, the two states signed a fifteen-year Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation in which Iraq and the Soviet Union agreed to 'continue to develop cooperation in the strengthening of the defense capabilities of each.'".
</blockquote>
see: http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/iqtoc.html

One serious factor in the dissolution of the Soviet Blok was that the Iraqis, equipped with the flower of Soviet Military technology, got their butts so thoughly whipped by a numerically inferior force equipped with technically superior Western equipment. After that, the perceived value of Soviet equipment and training dropped precipitously.

The Iraqis did still have some leftover Brit gear (of 1950s vintage) in small quantities, and did manage to get some small quantities of stuff past a US embargo, as your GAO report shows.

But the idea that *we* gave/sold Saddam any significant part of his military equipment is just plain wrong...the stuff cited in the GAO report is chump change next to what they bought from the Soviets. Just take a look at the tables in the appendix to that LOC country report and you'll see what I mean.

[mhaw]

for anyone really interested on this topic, Benjamin Barber a world reknowned politcal scientist and now at the University of Marlyand wrote a book a couple of years back called "Jihad vs. McWorld"

[jaguar]

Man, 6 pages in less than 2 odd days, this shoudl be my thread and i missed it

Just to start off with i don't 'hate' america, hell, i don't hate anything, there are jsut aspects, often understandable aspects i dislike. I may as well list.

a: Abuse of power
i: Military: its either belated bullshit (rawanda), pointless (Iraq 1 and deffinately 2), ego boosting (grenada)
ii: Economic: Trade protectionism from someone who preaches free trade to everyone else, everyone's response: Fuck Off.

b: Backward and destructive attitudes, exported
Culture of litigation, economic rationalisation, commercialisation and commuerisation of just about everything.

c: arrogance

2 words, closed mind, closed fist.

[Undertoad]

The only empire in all of recorded history not hell-bent on imperialistic conquest.

[jaguar]

an empire of influence, not control, which is why pax americana will never work.

[Undertoad]

You think control would work better...?

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jaguar
2 words, closed mind, closed fist.

Three words: "Learn to count". :-)

If it wasn't for the *last* big arrogant, militaristic "Pax Americana", Jag would be counting like this: "Ichi, ni, san..."

[Xugumad]

As you may or may not know, some 'prominent' US-Americans have issued the following statement regarding the 'war on terror'. Try to look at the situation through their eyes, as they see it, and you may understand why others hate America.

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,737060,00.html">Not in our name</a>

Thought-provoking, even if you happen to disagree.

X.

[BrianR]

What a bunch of whiny bleeding hearts.

At least we have a list of names to look into.

Brian

[jaguar]

If it wasn't for the *last* big arrogant, militaristic "Pax Americana", Jag would be counting like this: "Ichi, ni, san..."

Things have changed in the last 50 years, hate to break it to you.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jaguar
Things have changed in the last 50 years, hate to break it to you.

Not as much as you might think; there's *always* been people happy to sneer at the very things whose benefits they enjoy. :-) Even given how much things have changed, if AU had become part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere fifty years ago, I think it likely you'd still be there today.

[spinningfetus]

Originally posted by Xugumad
As you may or may not know, some 'prominent' US-Americans have issued the following statement regarding the 'war on terror'. Try to look at the situation through their eyes, as they see it, and you may understand why others hate America.

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,737060,00.html">Not in our name</a>

Thought-provoking, even if you happen to disagree.

X.

I'm glad people are getting the courage to speak up. And while I agree with the message, the signers are pretty much who I would expect to see on such a letter. Is nobody right of Ralph Nader even alittle concern over our country's actions? The amout of ire poured down on dissent right now is a little frightening. Oh well, I guess nothing is new... Anybody know where the signups are for the Committee to Re-Elect Joe Mc Carthy???

[Nic Name]

Anybody know where the signups are for the Committee to Re-Elect Joe Mc Carthy???

@ freerepublic.com

they're makin' an updated hollywood blacklist.

[jaguar]

Not as much as you might think; there's *always* been people happy to sneer at the very things whose benefits they enjoy. :-) Even given how much things have changed, if AU had become part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere fifty years ago, I think it likely you'd still be there today.

Its 50 years ago, the fundamentals of international relations ahve changed twice since then, and are changing again, what the heck is your point? That we are somehow indebted to you for the rest of history, that europe is? That germany shoudl never critizise jews becase of the holocost? That kind of mentality? Its *history* now, move on.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by jaguar
That we are somehow indebted to you for the rest of history, that europe is?

Every good Australian and European should have a shrine built to the US. Failure to have one should amount to treason in any country.

It should include busts of FDR, Truman, Patton, and MacArthur. The backdrop should be a 48-star flag, although a 50-star flag is acceptable. Red, white, and blue candles should adorn it...at least 10 of each. While lighting the candles, all should recite,

"The United States is the rock upon which I build my life. There is no greater god than the United States. I am insignificant in comparison to the United States...ommmm..."