12/2: College freshman learns about dissent

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

Sorry, Man. I know I hit a sore spot there.

It's not a sore spot with me. For example, we discussed Identity Theft. Two necessary objectives of Identity protection means 1) so that you can prove who you are and 2) so that you can confirm no one else is using your identity. Not possible without government action. Does that mean government is imposed on our lives? If my attitude had so changed, then I would now have to oppose those identity theft recommendations. ID protection requires a government bureacracy that works for us. I have not changed. That ID protection system is still necessary.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. George Jr is now advocating a required ID program for all Americans. What is different? His program is for the benefit of government. That is 100% different from what I advocated: a program to service only citizens and intentionally created to not serve government. Attitude toward government did not change. What changed: we elected a scumbag and his Army of theives (Abramoff, Haliburton, Delay, Trent Lott, et al), child molesters, and even people to protect those child molesters (Hasbert). People that MaggieL approved of in 2002.

Remember what MaggieL posted repeatedly - 'foaming and ranting':
First strike and your out!:

Ironic that one who would all but encourage world war - who proposes exactly what Tojo and Curtis LeMay promoted - would accuse others of ranting and foaming.

As a result, international kidnapping, wiretapping without judicial review, torture, unilateral and unjustified war, proliferation of nuclear weapons, and even blocking the Supreme Court from enforcing the Geneva Convention and Universal Declaration of Human Rights .... all these things MaggieL approved of as demonstrated in July 2002. Back then I was warming about this 'big dic' agenda that MaggieL still advocates today - including the arming of every citizen so that deaths are ....

So what has changed? The world is slowly learning what was obvious back in 2002; what MaggieL still advocates. Same idea that assumes a gun in everyone's pocket reduces crime also assumes 'might makes right' and justified 'Pearl Harboring' Iraq.

Not a sore point. Reality that should have been obvious to every Cellar dweller in July 2002. 30 years from today, younger Cellar Dwellers will do what I am doing now: challenge those youngsters to use a head on their shoulders and not one between their legs. 2800+ dead Americans directly traceable to 'big dic' thinking - such as from PA's Senator Rick Santorum, religious extremist - and advocated by MaggieL back in
July 2002 .

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by OwenKL

The Swiss did that? Oh, wait, look at that dateline, less than three months past 9/11.

That's right, this is an old thread being revisited.
Welcome to the Cellar, by the way.

[OwenKL]

Good grief! Is it possible to resurrect a thread that old?

I guess it is!

This is so apropos to current events, with the "Military Commissions Act" allowing the gov to suspend all sorts of rights, that I didn't even suspect it was that old, and so didn't think to check the dates on the messages, just the articles. Sorry.

[BigV]

--snip--a seditious and un-American criticism of the personification of the US Government {PBUI}.

Wow, that's funny! A slam dunk of a inaugural post. Welcome, welcome to the cellar, OwenKL.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Owen, no need to apologize. Old threads don't get drug up for nostalgia (usually), they surface because they are still or have become again, relevant.
In this case, just checking the progress down the slippery slope.

[John]

Speaking of progress down that slippery slope, go here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/

Search for HR 5122 under "bill number".
Click on the last one, the one passed by both House and Senate.
Read section 1076, "USE OF THE ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES."

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sec. 1075. Patent term extensions for the badges of the American Legion, the American Legion Women's Auxiliary, and the Sons of the American Legion.

Sec. 1076. Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies.

Sec. 1077. Increased hunting and fishing opportunities for members of the Armed Forces, retired members, and disabled veterans.

Sec 1076 is a link but doesn't go into any further explanation. I'd assume this is in response to Katrina but it does hold much more ominous implications.

Sec. 521. Recognition of former Representative G. V. `Sonny' Montgomery for his 30 years of service in the House of Representatives.

So if anyone thinks 'Sonny" was an asshat, they vote against the Military Appropriations Bill?

[John]

If you click the link, it takes you to a place where there's just a stub. Searching for the *second* instance of 1076 using your browser's find function finds this:

SEC. 1076. USE OF THE ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES.

(a) Use of the Armed Forces Authorized-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 333 of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`Sec. 333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law

`(a) Use of Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies- (1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--

`(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--

`(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and

`(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or

`(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).

`(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--

`(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

`(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

`(3) In any situation covered by paragraph (1)(B), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

`(b) Notice to Congress- The President shall notify Congress of the determination to exercise the authority in subsection (a)(1)(A) as soon as practicable after the determination and every 14 days thereafter during the duration of the exercise of that authority.'.

(2) PROCLAMATION TO DISPERSE- Section 334 of such title is amended by inserting `or those obstructing the enforcement of the laws' after `insurgents'.

(3) HEADING AMENDMENT- The heading of chapter 15 of such title is amended to read as follows:

`CHAPTER 15--ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS TO RESTORE PUBLIC ORDER'.

(4) CLERICAL AMENDMENTS- (A) The tables of chapters at the beginning of subtitle A of title 10, United States Code, and at the beginning of part I of such subtitle, are each amended by striking the item relating to chapter 15 and inserting the following new item:

331'.

(B) The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 15 of such title is amended by striking the item relating to sections 333 and inserting the following new item:

`333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law.'.

(b) Provision of Supplies, Services, and Equipment-

(1) IN GENERAL- Chapter 152 of such title is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`Sec. 2567. Supplies, services, and equipment: provision in major public emergencies

`(a) Provision Authorized- In any situation in which the President determines to exercise the authority in section 333(a)(1)(A) of this title, the President may direct the Secretary of Defense to provide supplies, services, and equipment to persons affected by the situation.

`(b) Covered Supplies, Services, and Equipment- The supplies, services, and equipment provided under this section may include food, water, utilities, bedding, transportation, tentage, search and rescue, medical care, minor repairs, the removal of debris, and other assistance necessary for the immediate preservation of life and property.

`(c) Limitations- (1) Supplies, services, and equipment may be provided under this section--

`(A) only to the extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession concerned are unable to provide such supplies, services, and equipment, as the case may be; and

`(B) only until such authorities, or other departments or agencies of the United States charged with the provision of such supplies, services, and equipment, are able to provide such supplies, services, and equipment.

`(2) The Secretary may provide supplies, services, and equipment under this section only to the extent that the Secretary determines that doing so will not interfere with military preparedness or ongoing military operations or functions.

`(d) Inapplicability of Certain Authorities- The provision of supplies, services, or equipment under this section shall not be subject to the provisions of section 403(c) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5170b(c)).'.

(2) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`2567. Supplies, services, and equipment: provision in major public emergencies'.

(c) Conforming Amendment- Section 12304(c)(1) of such title is amended by striking `No unit' and all that follows through `subsection (b),' and inserting `Except to perform any of the functions authorized by chapter 15 or section 12406 of this title or by subsection (b), no unit or member of a reserve component may be ordered to active duty under this section'.

At the Shrub's insistence, martial law can be declared, allowing the use of military force and transferring the National Guard away from the state Governors. As well, the military units involved can be hand-chosen from anywhere, and don't have to have any relation to the area.

This can happen in situations like Hurricane Katrina, but also in cases of insufficient support for the government - like, as it's worded there, *wanting to elect non-Republicans*.

The government should never be trusted, under any circumstances. Especially now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well that makes sense....how else can the give you the mandatory flu shots, you don't want, can't sue the maker if they hurt you and can't even find out how many were injured by the vaccine under the freedom of information act.

[Ibby]

rkzenrage, seriously man, where are you getting all these fuckin' rad posters?

I have them in photobucket... I'll have to look-up the site.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't let him kid you, Ibram. He's got an in on the official posters for the campaign after the election, so he must be an agent of HS.