Cure found for cancer?

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I realize you're being sarcastic but you know that's silly. Attitude is very important but so is making logical, rational and reasonable choices of treatments.

The only part of my statement which was even close to sarcastic was the last one. I believe state of mind is the MOST important part of beating any disease whether it's physical, emotional or a mixture of both.

My point is, there's absolutely no point in being defeatist, or in trying to denegrate another person for their choices with regard to their health care.

Until you've personally faced cancer, you have no understanding of how it affects you mentally and physically. You have no concept of the uselessness of 'modern medicine', and obviously no understanding of the lengths you might go to in order to beat the disease - if in fact you are strong enough in will and spirit to fight it rather than submit.

Don't judge another person for their choices until you've had a chance to understand why they've made those choices.

[Undertoad]

If I'm sick, I hope there will be people around me who are smarter than me, to help me make the best decisions in my weakened state.

If people mock me for my decisions, it won't hurt me, or affect my ability to deal with the disease. It will be the same experience I've had my whole life.

Here are the results of the "useless" modern system.

5-Year Relative Survival Rates

You will notice that the survival rate has risen, over the last 20 years, from 50% to 65%. From 55% to 65% in the last ten years alone!!!

The increase is not the result of more compassion for people's choices and it is not the result of eating more B17.

It's nice to be nice to the sick. They can of course do whatever they like. As with the non-sick, they often make poor choices. If the choices are poor, and I think so, I will point that out. I believe that is being nice.


Joe Bloggs: "I have skin cancer on my hand... I'm going to cut it off with this table saw."

Aliantha: "Hugs! Good luck with that!"

Undertoad: "Wait!! There might be a better way!!"

[Iggy]

I just now noticed this thread. I thought it was another one of those spam threads about vitamin deficiency causing cancer... can you imagine that?

But I do have a question... What is your take on B12? I have heard that many believe that is another neccessary vitamin to take in order to "cure" cancer, along with the B17 you are talking about. What do you know about pernicious anemia, annoyed? Not that you are still here, but I was curious to hear what you had to say about it.

[disenchanted]

So I like to think of myself as a man of science, even if there are certain fields (chemistry, biology, countless others) that I can truthfully say I'm woefully ignorant of.

And being (as far as I know) cancer-free, and having a familial history of dodging that bullet, perhaps I don't understand the perspective of someone that is stricken.

I've heard the arguments that the pharmaceutical companies are only interested in putting out products that put off the symptoms rather than produce a cure, and my cynical nature finds those to be compelling. I could totally see blind capitalism driving a system that keeps people hooked on a treatment rather than offering the finality of really solving the problem.

So with those disclaimers aside, I have to say that the last and best defense against the snake-oil salesman is the scientific method. Whatever ulterior motives the modern medicine industry might have, no matter how tainted the FDA might have become through political lobbying, there's nothing more compelling than a stringently-controlled study that can survive the rigors of peer review.

So I'll keep my mind open to the wonderful possibility of B17 or apricot seeds or whatever, but until the extraordinary evidence can be produced to back up these extraordinary claims, I'm going to maintain my skepticism.

If the system really has become tainted through the siren's call of profit, perhaps all we've got left is the once-sacred halls of academia. The trick is to get enough people to care such that those institutions can gather enough funding to outweigh the potential bias that is a research grant from the same industries that would put profit over well-being.

It's not an easy path, but if you want to avoid the stigma of "Grasping at straws" or "Industry shill", getting the scientific evidence will go a long way to promoting positive change.

[Aliantha]

UT...if you think it's that simplistic from your perspective that's fine, but it's certainly not from mine.

Have another go at reading my mind and see if you can come any closer huh?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by disenchanted

So I'll keep my mind open to the wonderful possibility of B17 or apricot seeds or whatever, but until the extraordinary evidence can be produced to back up these extraordinary claims, I'm going to maintain my skepticism.

If the system really has become tainted through the siren's call of profit, perhaps all we've got left is the once-sacred halls of academia.

This is something I wish these "B17" subscribers would understand: the real drive behind medicine are research universities. It is an open system and no matter what individual produces the treatment, it can be up for peer review. If the statistics don't pan out and a medicine is found ineffective or harmful, then it isn't going to fly, no matter how hard the pharm companies push.

There is no corporate drive to keep "vitamin" B17 away from cancer victims. There is no conspiracy to hide the cure. It is as simple as this: the treatment doesn't stand up to peer review. There is no data to show that it works, no clinical trials have shown it to be effective. What you see in one person cannot be generalized to everyone -- a sugar pill has better results in cancer treatment. Until we see something stating otherwise here, here, or here, no one should be parading this method around as treatment or preventative medicine.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Until you've personally faced cancer, you have no understanding of how it affects you mentally and physically. ... obviously no understanding of the lengths you might go to in order to beat the disease ... Don't judge another person for their choices until you've had a chance to understand why they've made those choices. ... I don't think it matters what kind of cure the person is using or how fraudulent it is. If it helps the person beat cancer by believing in it, then good for that person.

That is exactly why this whole thing screams snakeoil. The way it is described, the way it is advertised. The desperation, the supposed conspiracy, the dark curtain being pulled over everyone's eyes. You'd swear it might be about taking advantage of people in need. But, hey, maybe I'm the only one that thinks the "research" on B17 sounds like a bad Art Bell show or looks like an ad for magnetic bracelets/crystal pendants that heal arthritis.

[Aliantha]

Well, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't subscribe to any of these alternative so called 'cures' for cancer. One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.

Again, I'd also note that I think it's fair enough for people to disagree on the subject, but if someone believes in a therapy and for whatever reason, it appears to be working for them, I don't think there is anything to be gained by belittling that person.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.

That's not all it is. If you look at the B17 sites, they aren't saying, "If you've tried everything else and doctors say there's no hope, why don't you try this?" They're saying, "medical solutions are poison and only designed to get your money and apricot pits are to cancer what limes are to scurvy". They want people to try this first.

[Aliantha]

That's true HM. Again, I'm not refuting anyone's opinion on this matter. I'm questioning the way the poster was questioned and I'd even go so far as to say attacked because of his/her thoughts or feelings on the subject.

Anyway, I don't really think there's any point in posting anymore on this thread.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not the poster being attacked, the dissemination of questionable information.
Right now this thread has less than a hundred posts and almost 1500 views.
People are reading and maybe believing bad information if we don't question it.
I'm sure there are people with cancer, and their loved ones, scouring the web for any glimmer of hope there might be a magic cure, they just haven't found yet. The web is full of bad information, we shouldn't add any more.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't subscribe to any of these alternative so called 'cures' for cancer. One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.

Again, I'd also note that I think it's fair enough for people to disagree on the subject, but if someone believes in a therapy and for whatever reason, it appears to be working for them, I don't think there is anything to be gained by belittling that person.

There is no harm in that, the harm is in telling others that it is a cure and having them ignore methods that work.
As for your statement about feelings vs facts... one has nothing to do with the other.
If someone posts something as a fact and it is disputed and shown to be wrong, feelings don't enter into it & it is not an attack, it is information, pure and simple.
I have several things wrong with me & am constantly barraged with well intentioned people who actually tell me to stop my meds and just get acupuncture or drink grapefruit juice or some similar insanity... it is harmful to spread such crap to those who may take them seriously just to feel empowered. That is all it is.

[annoyedsas]

I think it is very sad that you have all brought this subject to such a low, cockfight of a discussion. If someone has anything positive to say about alternative therapies, I will keep an eye out. Meanwhile, UT, Pie, Brianna, xoxoxoBruce, rkzenrage, Aliantha (sorry to tag you in, but you too have some negativity), Happy Monkey - I truely pray none of you get what I have - cancer - and am fiercly fighting and winning I might add.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Good for you. I hope you continue to beat it and eventually winning....my Mom did.
I heard recently, something like 1.4 million Americans are diagnosed with cancer every year and 0.5 million of them will lose that battle, but that means nearly 2 out of 3 beat it.

For the last three years I've worked in a department with about 30 people and fully half of them have cancer. That's because the employees that come down with serious illnesses are moved to that department.

I've shared their ups and downs, triumphs and defeats, and listened to their stories, many of which are searches for information.

I've seen the sparkle in their eyes when they find some new treatment and seen the sparkle fade when they talk to others that have researched and in many cases tried these treatments. They are disappointed but they want the truth above all else.

[Aliantha]

annoyedsas...As I posted earlier, I think most of the winning of the battle against so many illnesses is because of the patients strong will and positive mental outlook. So I also believe that if someone doesn't believe something will work, chances are it wont, but if they do believe it will work, then they've already won half the battle.

My point is, I believe it's the mind that does the healing, no matter what medications you take; traditional or alternative.

So, in your defense here, I have tried to suggest that the negativity displayed by some posters could have been harmful to your recovery because you might start to doubt why you're getting better.

Of course, in their defense, they have a right to say what they like, so I suppose the lesson to be learned here is, find what's working for you and then just do it. Some treatments aren't acceptable to many people for many reasons, but if what you're doing works for you, then just go ahead and have the last laugh.

That's what I think.

The reason you may sense negativity from me is because my mother was ripped off by a quack. I'm sure if she'd survived cancer I'd be shouting the benefits of B17 from the rooftops. She tried traditional methods first and had no result, so she turned to alternatives because the doctors only had palliative medications to offer her. I guess her number was up no matter what. I don't believe there's a 'cure' for cancer either way. I believe there are only treatments, some of which work and some of which don't.

The way the human race lives is cancerous. It's no wonder we're all getting it.

Originally Posted by annoyedsas

I think it is very sad that you have all brought this subject to such a low, cockfight of a discussion. If someone has anything positive to say about alternative therapies, I will keep an eye out. Meanwhile, UT, Pie, Brianna, xoxoxoBruce, rkzenrage, Aliantha (sorry to tag you in, but you too have some negativity), Happy Monkey - I truely pray none of you get what I have - cancer - and am fiercly fighting and winning I might add.

You have no idea what my situation is and why I feel the way I do. Speak of what you know.