If people are able to buy Dangerous books in SECRET, the terrorits have won.

serge · 01-13-2002, 07:24 AM

Saw this article on BBC News, and thought I should post it.

Basically as I see it, the notion that America is has become / rapidly becoming a Corporate / Fascist state, is no longer a /. troll.

I think a good point to bring up, about making small time transactions, is that you should pay in cash* and not keep the receipts. (Think books, pay tolls, etc).

*Of course paper money is trackable now and will only become more so in the future. Plus it will probably be abolished all together in favor for SS/Passport/CC (unified) card or such.

P.S. Speaking of books... try "Why Bother?: Getting a Life in a Locked-Down Land" by Sam Smith

Hubris Boy · 01-13-2002, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by serge

*Of course paper money is trackable now and will only become more so in the future. Plus it will probably be abolished all together in favor for SS/Passport/CC (unified) card or such.

Quite right... and a good thing, too. There's simply no need for cash in today's society. It's inconvenient to use, expensive to manufacture, and the anonymity it provides gives cover to criminals and terrorists. That sort of privacy has become a luxury we can no longer afford. So what if the government can track your purchases electronically? If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to fear.

Cash should be abolished as soon as possible.

verbatim · 01-13-2002, 01:30 PM

WHAT!?!?!?!??!?!?!

Are you guys kidding me? Eliminate cash? Are you insane?

Sure it provides almost unlimited anonymity, can be used anywhere, and buys you anything, but what about the people who cant get a credit card? What about the people who dont have enough money to keep a bank account active?

For some, its just a better way to do things. And although it is potentially dangerous, its benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

But back to books.

Quote:

[Michael Chabon] insisted: "One has the right to read what one wants and without interference from the government."

I think we came to the conclusion that "Big Brother" was a bad idea, and ill just stick with that. I dont want some bored FBI paper-pusher reading up on what books I bought because I "might be a criminal". Doesnt that also trod on innocent until proven guilty?

elSicomoro · 01-13-2002, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by verbatim
Are you guys kidding me? Eliminate cash? Are you insane?

I think it's a great idea. I very rarely carry it on me anyway. It's a pain in the ass.

Quote:

Sure it provides almost unlimited anonymity, can be used anywhere, and buys you anything, but what about the people who cant get a credit card? What about the people who dont have enough money to keep a bank account active?

Many banks offer no-cost or low-cost checking accounts. Commerce Bank (in IL, MO, and KS) is one that comes to mind on the free front. First Union charges $2 a month if you do not have direct deposit. Otherwise, it is free.

01-13-2002, 02:16 PM

I find cash-money to be smelly. I hate the smell. Credit cards, on the other hand, don't smell bad.

Seriously though. If you lose your credit card, 'sno big deal. Get it cancelled and re-issued, and it's all good. Cash though... that's gone.

At the very least, I think cash will evolve. Right now though, it's an old system. That's why we have credit cards and checks and whatnot - cash is a P.I.T.A.

As for low-cost banking... check out a credit union too. You might have to jump through hoops to get in one, but being a member is niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

elSicomoro · 01-13-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
As for low-cost banking... check out a credit union too. You might have to jump through hoops to get in one, but being a member is niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

I meant to mention that, but forgot. In many cases, they now have "community" credit unions. I'd join my neighborhood one, but I don't find it to be "convenient" enough.

Everything is a card now--credit card, debit card, even TANF benefits are on a card. It's ingenious.

jaguar · 01-13-2002, 05:16 PM

Hubris Boy - please tell me that was a joke, i htought it was when i first read it but noone seems to have got it.....

The idea that america is a corperate state hasen't been to a slashdot troll for anyone who hasen't made a concious effort to bury their head in the sand and shove a carrot in each ear for years.

Personally i use card allot, but some things i puchase with cash because i don't wnat them on my credit statements which my mum has a habit of reading

.

There are many things we wish to do in private for perfectly acceptable reasons, and this whole pile of terorism bullshit is a: not new, its just now that is happened to America, so suddenly america notices it exists. b: a good excuse to bully civil liberties under some bullshit guise of maintaing law and order. Organisied crime if well organised is above the law anyway, and the rest are not that hard to deal with.

(-1 Offtopic)

Secondly, using card is fuckign expensive and makes you ENTIRELY the banks bitch, if they take your card, you have nothing, and every time you spend your money, they tale a share for giving you the privlige of spending your own money. Here the backs are fucking whores and it runs at about US$.50 which adds up fast to an average(across the country) of close to a grand a year in bank fees, may thier withered souls rot in a thousand hells, i could have spent that on a $700 leather jacket i want =~(

elSicomoro · 01-13-2002, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Personally i use card allot, but some things i puchase with cash because i don't wnat them on my credit statements which my mum has a habit of reading.

When you turn 18, get your own card.

Quote:

using card is fuckign expensive and makes you ENTIRELY the banks bitch, if they take your card, you have nothing, and every time you spend your money, they tale a share for giving you the privlige of spending your own money. Here the backs are fucking whores and it runs at about US$.50 which adds up fast to an average(across the country) of close to a grand a year in bank fees, may thier withered souls rot in a thousand hells, i could have spent that on a $700 leather jacket i want =~(

I don't know of many banks that do that here now. When I got my first ATM card, there were only a few places where you could use it for purchases--this was in '93. My bank would charge me 25 cents whenever I used my ATM card for purchases. I believe they scrapped that charge in early '94. Then, MasterCard and Visa check cards came out...and many merchants started accepting debit cards for purchases. My old bank charged me $1.50 if I didn't use my Visa debit card for 7 or more purchases in a statement cycle. First Union charges me nothing. No more cash for me.

jaguar · 01-13-2002, 06:10 PM

I have my own cards/accounts (general use account, saving account(swiss) and busienss account) but i keep the statements in my room.

If the charges come down, fine, i'd rather one use credit card number for online though, and in some ways fo offline, i want a way to be anon.

01-14-2002, 06:14 AM

Just curious, 'cause I'm ignorant of most Australian law -

Is your mom <b>allowed</b> to look through your statements and whatnot? Here, that would be illegal. Of course, most kids don't bother going to the trouble of reporting their parents for mail tampering, but they <b>could</b>. What's the deal with that in Australia? Just curious.

jaguar · 01-14-2002, 07:06 AM

Good question.....No idea personally. Its not mail, its just they're in folders on my desk. If i could be stuffed i'd hide/lock them, but i can't. Its only the occasional thing i don't use it for on purpose, either big ticket stuff i shouldn't buy ($300 jewelry for birthday for example) or things i'd rather mum had no knowledge of, like condoms.

01-14-2002, 07:09 AM

Yah. That's when you buy a safe to put that shit in. Either that, or think of the most obvious spot in the world and put them there. Above ceiling tiles is a tried-and-true method. Be creative! Heh. I'm glad I don't really have anything to hide. But if I did, I'd just stick it in my dresser or something. No one goes in our room without us - one of the cool things about being 20 and a major breadwinner in the house - people tend to not want to piss you off.

jaguar · 01-14-2002, 07:23 AM

3 bricks in teh spare room move, every now and then, couple of hundred in there for emergencies but arapt from that everything i want to keep private is iether a: in a wallet hidden behind a drawer in a japanese cabinet in the lounge room, b: carried on me or on the computer hidden/encrypted. From an ease of use perspective its just not worth hiding them.

lisa · 01-14-2002, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Hubris Boy - please tell me that was a joke, i htought it was when i first read it but noone seems to have got it.....

I couldn't tell. I've heard so many people use that line "So what if the government can track your purchases electronically? If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to fear. " And most people who say it are serious about it.

It just amazes me that many people out there seem to feel that no one has a reason to hide anything from others unless they're a criminal.

I suppose that none of the people who say these things have ever done or said anything that they would MIND the world knowing about.

This reminds me of an old Outer Limits episode that was just on the other day: "O.B.I.T." in which the government has a machine that can "tune in" on anyone at any time and watch them. Turns out that it was a way for invading aliens to demoralize the people so that they would be fighting amongst themselves when the invasion began.

Now, I know that's fiction, but the demoralizing factor would be, for me at least, a reality.

<sigh> some get it and some don't.

01-14-2002, 08:55 AM

Well, I do believe he was joking. Hubris Boy, it seems, it not without a sense of sarcasm.

01-13-2002, 07:24 AM	#1
serge * Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 85	If people are able to buy Dangerous books in SECRET, the terrorits have won. Saw this article on BBC News, and thought I should post it. Basically as I see it, the notion that America is has become / rapidly becoming a Corporate / Fascist state, is no longer a /. troll. I think a good point to bring up, about making small time transactions, is that you should pay in cash* and not keep the receipts. (Think books, pay tolls, etc). Of course paper money is trackable now and will only become more so in the future. Plus it will probably be abolished all together in favor for SS/Passport/CC (unified) card or such. P.S. Speaking of books... try "Why Bother?: Getting a Life in a Locked-Down Land" by Sam Smith __________________ Patriotism is for Losers Last edited by serge; 01-13-2002 at 07:28 AM.*

01-13-2002, 05:16 PM	#7
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Hubris Boy - please tell me that was a joke, i htought it was when i first read it but noone seems to have got it..... The idea that america is a corperate state hasen't been to a slashdot troll for anyone who hasen't made a concious effort to bury their head in the sand and shove a carrot in each ear for years. Personally i use card allot, but some things i puchase with cash because i don't wnat them on my credit statements which my mum has a habit of reading . There are many things we wish to do in private for perfectly acceptable reasons, and this whole pile of terorism bullshit is a: not new, its just now that is happened to America, so suddenly america notices it exists. b: a good excuse to bully civil liberties under some bullshit guise of maintaing law and order. Organisied crime if well organised is above the law anyway, and the rest are not that hard to deal with. (-1 Offtopic) Secondly, using card is fuckign expensive and makes you ENTIRELY the banks bitch, if they take your card, you have nothing, and every time you spend your money, they tale a share for giving you the privlige of spending your own money. Here the backs are fucking whores and it runs at about US$.50 which adds up fast to an average(across the country) of close to a grand a year in bank fees, may thier withered souls rot in a thousand hells, i could have spent that on a $700 leather jacket i want =~( __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-13-2002, 06:10 PM	#9
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I have my own cards/accounts (general use account, saving account(swiss) and busienss account) but i keep the statements in my room. If the charges come down, fine, i'd rather one use credit card number for online though, and in some ways fo offline, i want a way to be anon. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-14-2002, 07:06 AM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Good question.....No idea personally. Its not mail, its just they're in folders on my desk. If i could be stuffed i'd hide/lock them, but i can't. Its only the occasional thing i don't use it for on purpose, either big ticket stuff i shouldn't buy ($300 jewelry for birthday for example) or things i'd rather mum had no knowledge of, like condoms. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-14-2002, 07:23 AM	#13
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	3 bricks in teh spare room move, every now and then, couple of hundred in there for emergencies but arapt from that everything i want to keep private is iether a: in a wallet hidden behind a drawer in a japanese cabinet in the lounge room, b: carried on me or on the computer hidden/encrypted. From an ease of use perspective its just not worth hiding them. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-13-2002, 02:16 PM	#5
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I find cash-money to be smelly. I hate the smell. Credit cards, on the other hand, don't smell bad. Seriously though. If you lose your credit card, 'sno big deal. Get it cancelled and re-issued, and it's all good. Cash though... that's gone. At the very least, I think cash will evolve. Right now though, it's an old system. That's why we have credit cards and checks and whatnot - cash is a P.I.T.A. As for low-cost banking... check out a credit union too. You might have to jump through hoops to get in one, but being a member is niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

01-14-2002, 06:14 AM	#10
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Just curious, 'cause I'm ignorant of most Australian law - Is your mom <b>allowed</b> to look through your statements and whatnot? Here, that would be illegal. Of course, most kids don't bother going to the trouble of reporting their parents for mail tampering, but they <b>could</b>. What's the deal with that in Australia? Just curious.

01-14-2002, 07:09 AM	#12
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Yah. That's when you buy a safe to put that shit in. Either that, or think of the most obvious spot in the world and put them there. Above ceiling tiles is a tried-and-true method. Be creative! Heh. I'm glad I don't really have anything to hide. But if I did, I'd just stick it in my dresser or something. No one goes in our room without us - one of the cool things about being 20 and a major breadwinner in the house - people tend to not want to piss you off.

01-14-2002, 08:55 AM	#15
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I do believe he was joking. Hubris Boy, it seems, it not without a sense of sarcasm.

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