Cutting off funding is not a plan

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't lie to us Bush, don't lie to us.

You have faith he knows the difference?

[deadbeater]

No I don't; he's just way too stubborn. He thinks he is the next Abe Lincoln that way.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by deadbeater

Nonsense? I tell you what is nonsense: not only starting a war based on a pack of lies, then having your cheerleaders calling those who dissent, those who say that the invasion will cause more problems than it is worth, 'Traitors'. Well, I guess that the truth is traitorous, isn't it, urbane?

Constitution, Art. III, Section 3.1.:
"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." [emph. mine]

Section 3.2 goes on to limit the punishment awarded for acts of treason.

While the difference between hard-blown words and overt actions needs no mention, the adjective "treasonable" can certainly be applied not only to the kind of thing you've said, but likewise to the utterances of the bulk of the leadership of the Democratic Party, and this is exacerbated by their utter lack of any strategy put forward to win the war better than the Republicans can. You Democrat dullards can't even get that much right, but you're going to have to if you want ever to grow a moral leg to stand on. You haven't. You don't even have it on the same horizon you occupy. As being too much an American for it to make any difference to our foes whether they sever your American head or mine, you're under an obligation to do that. You have signally failed at this.

Now the "you" goes back from the antiwar people in general to deadbeater in particular: you can search every single post I've ever written. You won't find one solitary syllable of "giving them aid and comfort." Nothing I've said adheres to our nation's enemies, which Republicans simply are not -- and note the Republicans utter no outraged shrieks about having their patriotism impugned -- nary a shriek nor a scream, but listen to the Democrats on the same topic! It's guilt, son, that utters outraged shrieks of innocence.

The only one of your posts that isn't displaying this adherence is number 30 in this thread, which instead shows you being pretty smart and doing some thinking. The difference between thee and me is I know who the good guys are, while you are being purblind. I'd caution you that Bush-hatred is the refuge of the stupid. I don't need a refuge.

What you will find in my posts (aside from some tasty recipes and some pretty fair quips) is some notion of why I think it is worth the problems to have invaded Iraq -- chiefly moral, but from the moral comes the economic also, for the best economics are the moral. No one here has cogently disputed these points -- mostly I just get yelled at for making them and upsetting their comfy little shortsighted assumptions. The eagle sees a lot more than the cow.

Abe Lincoln also caught an awful lot of intemperate shit, mainly for trying to do things that would win the Civil War. Some of it was letters, much of it was editorials.

Sounds like flying BinLadins out of the country & not investigating and following-up in Saudi Arabia like we should have to me.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Rkzen, ask the rest of the bin Laden family if they can stand Osama. He's their remittance man, remember? Does anyone even know if he's recently cashed any of his checks?

And face it, the last people the House of Saud is willing to piss off -- is us. The same House of Saud has taken five thousand or so al-Q symps and operatives right off the table, and pretty permanently, I gather. We are, I think, duly grateful. Moving against these enemies within their own border seems to have worked fairly well, too; they've not taken many hits since, partly from taking enemies down by arrest or killing, partly from choking off the financial conduits these people were maintaining. Terrorism only looks easy and cheap; it's actually difficult and quite expensive to do. It would seem that terrorists, in common with conventional military forces, have ruled out the option of passing out bribes to defeat a foe...

Enemies like a nation that was no threat just to steal oil?
The entirety of BushCo. are traitors and should be treated as such.

[deadbeater]

Let's see: Osama wanted as one of his goals the US to pull troops out of Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, Iran wanted to get rid of their enemy for power Saddam Hussein. So what did Iran do? Plant evidence via Chalabi to convince Americans that Saddam had WMD on the ready.

So the coalition invaded Saddam on that pretense, and establish permanent bases in Iraq, enabling the US to pull out of...Saudi Arabia. Iran got rid of Saddam, without firing a single shot, and al-Qaida get to practice on Americans (troops and mercenaries) without blowing their budget on travel expenses. Doesn't it occur to you, urbane, that the policy of US troops attacking terrorists 'on their own turf' was exactly what the terrorists wanted? Martyrdom on the cheap.

No wonder Osama and Iran are more than pleased. Bush is essentially doing what they wished. Talking about aiding and comforting the enemy. Bush realized too late that he and his advisers have been majorly played by Iran. That is why he is posturing now, and feebly at that.

Bush is trying to act like Abe Lincoln. Unlike Abe, Bush went with what doesn't work for too long.

And I wouldn't go 'Hooray for Captain Spaulding' on the House of Saud just yet, the most repressive regime on Earth after the Taliban. To many, this is another example of the US propping up dictatorships in the name of 'national interest'.

It is not about giving Osama what he, & all the other terrorists say they want, wants, it is about getting out because we should.

[Happy Monkey]

Agreed, but you might as well put the lie to "but if we leave then the terrorists win" on the way.

[deadbeater]

The plan is to cut off funding, and make the first, second, third and fourth priority to get Osama bin Laden and his deputies. That's the only way to salvage this mess of a presidency.

[Torrere]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Funny considering how much criticism we've heard from the left of the planning for post-invasion how little seems to be required for post-withdrawal. I guess it depends who's driving. :-)

Ahhhhh, but wouldn't it have been great if someone in the White House had considered planning what to do post-invasion?

They have, and they are doing it... secure the oil and get out.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Agreed, but you might as well put the lie to "but if we leave then the terrorists win" on the way.

We left Somalia. Notice those Somali terrorists now running rampant throughout the world. We did not even try to stop terrorism in Yemen - where bin Laden's Al Qaeda became active. Clearly Yemenis are now all over America hiding bombs in Turner Broadcasting advertisements.

If we leave, insurgents (that liars called terrorists) will fight among themselves in a civil war to eventually create a government of their choice. BTW, that is the only way a democracy will exist in Iraq. Liars also tell us that democracy can be imposed on a nation. Another classic lie. In each case, the same lies are directly traceable to the same extremists.

Only hope for peace in Iraq is the Iraq Study Group. By the end of 2007, that is it. Nothing more can be done. Even 500,000 American troops can no longer create peace because too many American even in the Cellar were lying to themselves in 2004 - promoting those lies about stopping terrorism. By now, anything from the anus of George Jr is automatically wrong until proven right. He lies that much.

Massive civil war in Iraq is inevitable. Do we prolong that civil war? Yes if stay after 2007.

Meanwhile a shitbag president is now lying about Iran. He did not get his 2006 invasion. Amazing how many Americans also believe Nixon long after it was obvious he was only a liar. America still has many brown shirts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

America still has many brown shirts.

See, I told you BigV's boy scouts were dangerous. Those UPS guys in the shorts, too.