psychology survey - Page 2

wolf · 11-28-2003, 01:26 PM

I'm about to bust the curve on your survey.

Since you are making gender a significant variable, I'm female. I am not a psych student. I have a BA in Geography and Planning, and an MA in Clinical Psychology. I work in the crisis/commitment office of an inpatient psychiatric hospital.

What makes my response different from most is this ... it's based on practical experience, not a review of the literature, or a layman's interpretation of your study question.

Here you go ...

First off, damn few people have "more than one personality disorder". Usually it's one per customer on Axis II. I rarely see "Mixed Personality Disorder" these days, occasionally "Personality Disorder, NOS" when a doc is being kind and doesn't want to hang the full "Borderline" tag on some 18 year old. Many antisocials are narcissistic, but that's more diagnostic of the antisocial personality disorder rather than qualifying the person for a second diagnosis.

You can't treat personality disorders. They are hard, fast, written in stone.

No amount of treatment is going to cause change to the ingrained personality characteristics of people who carry wallets with chains which attach them to their belts (this accessory is nearly mandatory for A-SPD), whether or not it's a requirement of their probation.

Probabtion requires that these same people not drink or use drugs. That doesn't work either. Getting these same folks in front of a shrink even once every other week ain't gonna happen. Most of them would prefer to do their time rather than sit in an office and have some fancyass prick say "ummm-hummm" and stroke his beard. (and yes, that's a real answer). Doing time is easy in comparison.

As far as your question regarding Oppositional Defiant Disorder, I don't read the literature so I don't know that such a link to Antisocial Personality has been clearly identified. I see a lot of Oppositional Defiant Disorder kids, most of them don't become antisocial adults. They all, however, do need a damn good spanking and major limit setting. (Yep. blaming the parents. Refrigerator mothers do NOT cause schizophrenia, but wishy-washy parents raise out of control kids.)

(as far as the ODD question, unless you're going for a PhD thesis, the question seems far too broad for just a class paper.)

wolf · 11-28-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slang

Ok. ( slang wonders why.....and senses another reading assignment in the works)

I can get you through the basics of Borderline Personality Disorder in like 15 minutes ...

Oh wait, I might be able to shorten that up ...

Angelina Jolie.

wolf · 11-28-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slang
Hey, while I'm in the nut thread here, I was wondering if this might be a real problem.

I see this little mouse zip out from under my couch and he sings La Cucaracha.

Problem or no?

Is he wearing lingerie?

slang · 11-28-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
(this accessory is nearly mandatory for A-SPD)

I'll be looking for this next work day.

slang · 11-28-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
Is he wearing lingerie?

No silly, mice dont wear lingerie. He's wearing a sombrero.

wolf · 11-28-2003, 01:34 PM

That's okay then. You're fine.

No wonder he likes the Doritos best.

slang · 11-28-2003, 01:37 PM

My ther...eh, I mean girlfriend is smarter than sycamore*. :p

* - Please dont be offended my attempt to be humorous and leave the forum.

parvati · 11-28-2003, 04:51 PM

Ed, do you think they are getting mentally healthier in prison?

Wolf, I agree with what you say. Here's the situation. This is not a 'serious' paper. I am trying to transfer into UT at Austin and I lacked 3 credit hours, so I am busting out a 9 month distance learning class in about 2 months. I am interested in this idea but not trying to give it a real, serious look at this point. I am aware that PD's are not treatable, and I know that comorbidity is not that common. I am not looking to solve the prison overcrowding issue or anything like that. But the people that do have them, like a mix of ASPD, NPD or BPD, tend to kill a lot more people. Comorbidity in serial killers, for example, is extremely high. Of course this is not a new idea, I am not trying to be groundbreaking or anything, just trying to get an A. And of course I have a personal interest, I know someone who has all 3 of those mentioned above.

parvati · 11-28-2003, 04:57 PM

Also, Wolf, since this would be part of probation, if they didn't follow therapeutic tx, that would be breaking probation and land them in jail for the sentence probation suspended. Frankly, these people are rare, but dangerous, and since they are unable to treat others as real people, I really think the less they operate in society the better for society. Not that I am saying lock sick people away, but if someone is already committing violent crimes and has these disorders, you said yourself they are not going to get better. I have plenty of thoughts and this is a rather hefty topic, but no one will read it but whoever is teaching this class and he's a TA or something.

be-bop · 11-28-2003, 06:03 PM

Reading your thread brings up the question just how many people out there with supposed/diagnosed personality disorders have really got them, or is it a case of there are now so many fuckwits in the world now who have no real idea on how to behave or act normally.
What about kids with Attention Deficit Disorder, kids know how to fool the doctors next thing the're selling the Ritalin in school to their friends" Kiddie Coke" they call it.
The bottom line is people have no perception or thought that actions have consequences and most don't give a fuck,why because they get away with it.kids don't get disciplined because its curtailing their self expression.Vandals, thieves yobs can't be jailed its against their human rights.
I would be very surprised if two out of every hundred people diagnosed are really sick, the rest well what to do with them..
I'll leave that idea for another thread.

wolf · 11-29-2003, 12:59 AM

Consider this also ...

While people who commit serial murders may have severe personality disorders, the majority of people with severe personality disorders do not kill people. It's a logical fallacy to assume that the personality disorder is a determining factor.

Some folks are just plain evil.

I often have to explain to families that sometimes people do things because they are mentally ill, and sometimes they do it because they are criminals. Not all persons with an Axis II disorder have a co-occuring Axis I disorder, or even are in need of inpatient treatment.

Be-Bop ... most of the people who are diagnosed with personality disorders really do have them, however a lot of these folks, as well as a lot of substance abusers, also have a "primary" diagnosis hung on them, just so the insurance company will pay to treat the "acute" disorder/symptoms.

(ADD/ADHD really does need it's own thread. That's the pharmaceutical companies' cash cow, that is)

EdZachary · 11-29-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by parvati
Ed, do you think they are getting mentally healthier in prison?

My issue was not really with your idea of trying to provide therapy, even though at the time I had no idea PDs were not treatable, but how it could ever be accomplished given the overwhelming number of violent offenders I assume have PDs.

parvati · 11-29-2003, 10:12 AM

Wolf, I think it is a pretty tenuous argument that someone whose diagnoses consist of lawlessness and lack of recognition of the rights of others and stealing/hurting others won't commit a crime.

Ed, no, there are not that many ppl with comorbid pd's.

11-28-2003, 01:26 PM	#16
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I'm about to bust the curve on your survey. Since you are making gender a significant variable, I'm female. I am not a psych student. I have a BA in Geography and Planning, and an MA in Clinical Psychology. I work in the crisis/commitment office of an inpatient psychiatric hospital. What makes my response different from most is this ... it's based on practical experience, not a review of the literature, or a layman's interpretation of your study question. Here you go ... First off, damn few people have "more than one personality disorder". Usually it's one per customer on Axis II. I rarely see "Mixed Personality Disorder" these days, occasionally "Personality Disorder, NOS" when a doc is being kind and doesn't want to hang the full "Borderline" tag on some 18 year old. Many antisocials are narcissistic, but that's more diagnostic of the antisocial personality disorder rather than qualifying the person for a second diagnosis. You can't treat personality disorders. They are hard, fast, written in stone. No amount of treatment is going to cause change to the ingrained personality characteristics of people who carry wallets with chains which attach them to their belts (this accessory is nearly mandatory for A-SPD), whether or not it's a requirement of their probation. Probabtion requires that these same people not drink or use drugs. That doesn't work either. Getting these same folks in front of a shrink even once every other week ain't gonna happen. Most of them would prefer to do their time rather than sit in an office and have some fancyass prick say "ummm-hummm" and stroke his beard. (and yes, that's a real answer). Doing time is easy in comparison. As far as your question regarding Oppositional Defiant Disorder, I don't read the literature so I don't know that such a link to Antisocial Personality has been clearly identified. I see a lot of Oppositional Defiant Disorder kids, most of them don't become antisocial adults. They all, however, do need a damn good spanking and major limit setting. (Yep. blaming the parents. Refrigerator mothers do NOT cause schizophrenia, but wishy-washy parents raise out of control kids.) (as far as the ODD question, unless you're going for a PhD thesis, the question seems far too broad for just a class paper.) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-28-2003, 01:34 PM	#21
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	That's okay then. You're fine. No wonder he likes the Doritos best. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-28-2003, 01:37 PM	#22
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	My ther...eh, I mean girlfriend is smarter than sycamore. :p - Please dont be offended my attempt to be humorous and leave the forum. Last edited by slang; 11-28-2003 at 01:40 PM.

11-28-2003, 04:51 PM	#23
parvati Mistress of all She Surveys Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Austin TX Posts: 10	Ed, do you think they are getting mentally healthier in prison? Wolf, I agree with what you say. Here's the situation. This is not a 'serious' paper. I am trying to transfer into UT at Austin and I lacked 3 credit hours, so I am busting out a 9 month distance learning class in about 2 months. I am interested in this idea but not trying to give it a real, serious look at this point. I am aware that PD's are not treatable, and I know that comorbidity is not that common. I am not looking to solve the prison overcrowding issue or anything like that. But the people that do have them, like a mix of ASPD, NPD or BPD, tend to kill a lot more people. Comorbidity in serial killers, for example, is extremely high. Of course this is not a new idea, I am not trying to be groundbreaking or anything, just trying to get an A. And of course I have a personal interest, I know someone who has all 3 of those mentioned above. __________________ It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye - St. Exupery

11-28-2003, 04:57 PM	#24
parvati Mistress of all She Surveys Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Austin TX Posts: 10	Also, Wolf, since this would be part of probation, if they didn't follow therapeutic tx, that would be breaking probation and land them in jail for the sentence probation suspended. Frankly, these people are rare, but dangerous, and since they are unable to treat others as real people, I really think the less they operate in society the better for society. Not that I am saying lock sick people away, but if someone is already committing violent crimes and has these disorders, you said yourself they are not going to get better. I have plenty of thoughts and this is a rather hefty topic, but no one will read it but whoever is teaching this class and he's a TA or something. __________________ It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye - St. Exupery

11-28-2003, 06:03 PM	#25
be-bop Operations Operative Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland/uk Posts: 664	Psychology Survey Reading your thread brings up the question just how many people out there with supposed/diagnosed personality disorders have really got them, or is it a case of there are now so many fuckwits in the world now who have no real idea on how to behave or act normally. What about kids with Attention Deficit Disorder, kids know how to fool the doctors next thing the're selling the Ritalin in school to their friends" Kiddie Coke" they call it. The bottom line is people have no perception or thought that actions have consequences and most don't give a fuck,why because they get away with it.kids don't get disciplined because its curtailing their self expression.Vandals, thieves yobs can't be jailed its against their human rights. I would be very surprised if two out of every hundred people diagnosed are really sick, the rest well what to do with them.. I'll leave that idea for another thread. Last edited by be-bop; 11-28-2003 at 07:03 PM.

11-29-2003, 12:59 AM	#26
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Consider this also ... While people who commit serial murders may have severe personality disorders, the majority of people with severe personality disorders do not kill people. It's a logical fallacy to assume that the personality disorder is a determining factor. Some folks are just plain evil. I often have to explain to families that sometimes people do things because they are mentally ill, and sometimes they do it because they are criminals. Not all persons with an Axis II disorder have a co-occuring Axis I disorder, or even are in need of inpatient treatment. Be-Bop ... most of the people who are diagnosed with personality disorders really do have them, however a lot of these folks, as well as a lot of substance abusers, also have a "primary" diagnosis hung on them, just so the insurance company will pay to treat the "acute" disorder/symptoms. (ADD/ADHD really does need it's own thread. That's the pharmaceutical companies' cash cow, that is) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-29-2003, 10:12 AM	#28
parvati Mistress of all She Surveys Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Austin TX Posts: 10	Wolf, I think it is a pretty tenuous argument that someone whose diagnoses consist of lawlessness and lack of recognition of the rights of others and stealing/hurting others won't commit a crime. Ed, no, there are not that many ppl with comorbid pd's. __________________ It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye - St. Exupery

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