Scare yourself

[Undertoad]

It might be useful.

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/...&articleid=711

On June 29, 2004, at 12:28 p.m., I flew on Northwest Airlines flight #327 from Detroit to Los Angeles with my husband and our young son. Also on our flight were 14 Middle Eastern men between the ages of approximately 20 and 50 years old. What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.

[wolf]

I don't know what's scarier ... the story of the flight itself, the apparent media blackout of such events, or the lack of action ...

[jaguar]

Interesting. I doubt it was a media blackout per se, more of a noone asked and we didn't tell situation. They may also have been hoping to monitor each dry run to get the technique down pat so they knew what to look for and ID as many potentials as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there was hidden camera in the toilets on the next flight they took. My guess is there are levels of intel going on here we don't know about.

[DanaC]

Of course theres always the possibility that the story was less than honest. A story about scary arabic men gathering on a plane to do harm. We are supposed to take at face value the woman's assertion that she is not racist and has travelled with muslims before. Interestingly she has a Jewish surname and as far as I am aware there is little love lost between the two faiths and plenty of reason for one to add to fuel to the fires which are currently burning. Much as there are articles aplenty in the Arabic world which focus on Jews as the villain of the piece.

[Skunks]

Or they're all just too busy rehearsing Christmas songs to catch any subversives.

Incidentally, I'll be catching a flight in a few hours. The last time I went to Phoenix, I lost two or three really great wrenches because we were running a little late and I forgot to take my bike tools out of my backpack.

Really, that's what worries me about traveling. A more fundamentally American (conservative capitalist) fear: that the regulations designed to protect me will instead tear from my grasp some of my Precious Stuff.

I realize she claims she's not a racist by citing some other trip she took, but that doesn't change the fact that she, well, is; the centerpiece of her argument seems to be race. It would be excusable if she were discussing a fundamentally race-based issue (yarmulkes), but it's just unnecessary here. <i>Any</i> 14 men who boarded an airplane separately but interacted as a group would have been cause for alarm. 14 <a href="http://imdb.com/title/tt0208092/">Jewish</a> men, even. But by calling them "men of middle-eastern decent" every time they sneeze she suggests that their race is important. She cites the language they speak along side how they act, as if it were just as damning; if racism isn't fear brought on by someone's place of origin and spoken language, what is?

[DanaC]

Well said Skunks

[Undertoad]

One hopes the Washington Post reporter who talked to her came away with the same conclusion and did do the followup with the FAA.

To my mind, militant Islamism is more of an offense to humanity than racism; and to offend people from other societies in the name of safety less of an offense than having thousands of people rudely killed in the name of a religious power grab.

Racism, in the USA, is yesterday's problem; militant Islam is what made race irrelevant in America on 9/12/01 and a few months after. Did you know that not one Arab was killed in retaliatory anger in the USA?

[jaguar]

Racism, in the USA, is yesterday's problem; militant Islam is what made race irrelevant in America on 9/12/01 and a few months after. Did you know that not one Arab was killed in retaliatory anger in the USA?

I seem to remember some mosque bombings and the like.

To my mind, militant Islamism is more of an offense to humanity than racism; and to offend people from other societies in the name of safety less of an offense than having thousands of people rudely killed in the name of a religious power grab.

So that justifies racism?

To expand on skunks point a little - I doubt there would be many more terorism-safe ways to travel by plane than on arabian airline full of muslims, not exactly a tempting target for islamic extremeists.

Bit of a side question but I know in that situation the first thing I'd do is go to the toilet and search it, throughly, for anything odd. How would others react?

[DanaC]

"Racism, in the USA, is yesterday's problem; militant Islam is what made race irrelevant in America on 9/12/01 and a few months after"

What about racism against Arabic men ( in particular) who are swept up in fishing expeditions by the police, or dragged in off the streets to be whisked off to Syria for "questioning" ? I dont mean "moslem" men though many are, I mean men who look to be of Arabic descent.

Personally I think Islamaphobia is an equal and equivalent threat to world peace as Islamic fundamentalism. Islamaphobia leads us westerners into some very dubious practices, all in the name of freedom and safety and each one driving a further wedge between the East and West. In the West bigotry towards those who follow Islam ( or even look as if they might ) is routine and extreme.

And......you seriously suggesting to me that racism is no longer a problem in America? I find that difficult, nay impossible to believe.



Hmmm. what would I do in that situation? Whoo. Toughy. Maybe I would be really resourceful and calm......or maybe I would just curl into the feotal position and cry......no way to know

[Undertoad]

Not one Arab killed.

Astonishing isn't it?

[jaguar]

I find that difficult, nay impossible to believe.

Easy enough if you're white and live in the suburbs.

[DanaC]

"Not one Arab killed."

Are we now measuring levels of racism on the number of deaths?

[Clodfobble]

Here's what I don't get: dozens of flights have been grounded or canceled entirely because of vague intelligence that there might be a terrorist act on the plane. Nowadays just a one-way ticket is a HUGE red flag. 14 Arabic men with one-way tickets, and the flight left the ground? And the flight attendant told her they were "surrounded" by air marshals? I thought usually there was one, maybe two. This seems very much like a sting operation, they knew these guys were up to something and let it continue in the hopes of catching them in something big.

[jaguar]

Here's what I don't get: dozens of flights have been grounded or canceled entirely because of vague intelligence that there might be a terrorist act on the plane. Nowadays just a one-way ticket is a HUGE red flag. 14 Arabic men with one-way tickets, and the flight left the ground? And the flight attendant told her they were "surrounded" by air marshals? I thought usually there was one, maybe two. This seems very much like a sting operation, they knew these guys were up to something and let it continue in the hopes of catching them in something big.

See this is what I was saying, it was a canned operation.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by DanaC

And......you seriously suggesting to me that racism is no longer a problem in America? I find that difficult, nay impossible to believe.

Look at the evidence: the most racist thing on this thread was said by a Brit:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Interestingly she has a Jewish surname

Better check yourself.