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   Undertoad  Wednesday Jun 14 12:22 PM

6/14/2006: Traditional Chinese medicine



Another xoB WaPo image has this woman in Jinan, China receiving what the caption calls "traditional Chinese medical treatment. That's a walnut on her eye and "dry moxa leaves" in her ear. Why? Seems to be part of acupuncture:

Quote:
Acupuncture is often conducted in combination with Moxibustion. Moxibustion is the process where moxa sticks, made of dry moxa leaves (Artemisia vulgaris) is ignited and held about an inch above the patients’s skin over specific acupuncture points. Moxa is available in a loose form that can be used for making moxa cones. Alternatively, moxa is packed and rolled in a long stick like a large cigar, about 15-20 cm long and about 1-2 cm in diameter. The purpose of this process is to warm the qi and blood in the channels. Moxibustion is most commonly used when there is the requirement to expel cold and damp or to tonify the qi and blood. A single treatment of moxibustion usually lasts 10-15 minutes.
Another source makes it sort of an herbal Bengai lotion, with real heating and vapor action:
Quote:
Moxa refers to leaves of Artemisia argyii, a type of mugwort, that is used in the classial Chinese medicine practice of moxibustion (burning of moxa). In the characteristic ancient style of moxibustion, the leaves would be molded into a cone shape and placed on the skin or on some herb material (such as a slice of fresh ginger) resting on the skin. Then, it would be burned to produce a strong local heating, with vapors from the burning moxa penetrating the skin and contributing to a stimulation of circulation.
Wimpy Westerners, not wanting their skin to be burned, have changed this treatment:
Quote:
In modern times, this type of "direct moxa" treatment, where the moxa cones are burned while resting on the skin, have largely been replaced by a variety of indirect moxa methods, especially for Western patients who don't want to risk burning their skin as part of the treatment (in China, forming a blister at the moxibustion site had been considered a good sign of effective application of moxibustion).
A nice cigar burn would certainly increase and stimulate the patient's circulation.


Ibby  Wednesday Jun 14 12:33 PM

Chinese medicine will never stop amusing and interesting me.

One traditional chinese procedure is to use extremely powerful suction cups / vacuums on your skin, leaving GIANT round bruises.



Happy Monkey  Wednesday Jun 14 12:34 PM

Acuhickey?



Trilby  Wednesday Jun 14 12:56 PM

Quick! TEll Annoydsas and KImberly!! Quick-quick! They will SOOOOO totally want to get in on this!



Griff  Wednesday Jun 14 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram
One traditional chinese procedure is to use extremely powerful suction cups / vacuums on your skin, leaving GIANT round bruises.
I've seen the results on the back of a child. I wonder how it would have played out if his teacher didn't know where they came from...?


Elspode  Wednesday Jun 14 01:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram
Chinese medicine will never stop amusing and interesting me.

One traditional chinese procedure is to use extremely powerful suction cups / vacuums on your skin, leaving GIANT round bruises.
Mrs Elspode owns a set of these, actually. I don't think she's used them on anyone yet, but give her time.


wolf  Wednesday Jun 14 02:16 PM

Mrs. Elspode is neither Chinese, nor traditional. I would be very, very concerned.



Owl  Wednesday Jun 14 02:45 PM

Cupping...it works...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram
Chinese medicine will never stop amusing and interesting me.

One traditional chinese procedure is to use extremely powerful suction cups / vacuums on your skin, leaving GIANT round bruises.
Hey there! Yep it's called cupping and it works--well for my gf's asthma, anyway (no, not by me--by (don't laugh) Dr. Kong...)

and yes bruises/marks that look much like the Salt-sucker monster from that one Star Trek


Ibby  Wednesday Jun 14 02:59 PM

I've seen a bunch of people around MY school with those bruises.



wolf  Wednesday Jun 14 03:01 PM

If you were in Cleveland, that would be a surprising statement, Ibram.



Ibby  Wednesday Jun 14 03:05 PM

Well I do go to the Taipei American School, though about 90% of the school is Asian...



seakdivers  Wednesday Jun 14 03:24 PM

Welcome to the Cellar Owl!



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jun 14 03:26 PM

The guy in the background looks like he has an ice bag on his head.....must have hemorrhoids.

Wecome to the Cellar Owl, are you in the Far East?



barefoot serpent  Wednesday Jun 14 03:41 PM

The ancient healing art of cupping may have multiple origins.




xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jun 14 03:54 PM

I have a cup in DoDads.



Happy Monkey  Wednesday Jun 14 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl
Hey there! Yep it's called cupping and it works--well for my gf's asthma, anyway
Hmm. Laying down and relaxing with suction cups attached helps her breathe better?

It might even work without the suction cups!


Owl  Wednesday Jun 14 04:22 PM

Nice Welcome

Thanks for the nice welcome.
Heh.
Not far-east, i'm in Midwest, heh. :-)



Kitsune  Wednesday Jun 14 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram
One traditional chinese procedure is to use extremely powerful suction cups / vacuums on your skin, leaving GIANT round bruises.
So, they're not just for lifting floor tiles, anymore?

"Hand me the Parton Extender, please..."


Flint  Wednesday Jun 14 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
So, they're not just for lifting floor tiles, anymore?
No, dude, that's the doorstop for the IT machine room.


srom  Wednesday Jun 14 09:47 PM

when i first saw the picture, i thought the walnut was just a seriously swollen eye.

holistic medicine is cool.



Pancake Man  Wednesday Jun 14 11:31 PM

I'm sorry, but I must say it. Why does that old lady have a super-sized marijuana cig?



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Jun 15 04:54 AM

She would have to be stoned to let them stick a burning cigar in each ear and a walnut in her eye.



Shawnee123  Thursday Jun 15 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Hmm. Laying down and relaxing with suction cups attached helps her breathe better?

It might even work without the suction cups!
Good point. In fact, I think that is the basis of much of those types of "medicine." Kind of a mind over matter thing. If you are concentrating on the sucking of your skin, or a walnut in your eye, or needles sticking out of various body parts, you may be relaxing and not thinking of whatever ails you, therefore aiding the process of healing.

But I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV.


magilla  Thursday Jun 15 09:52 AM

My father-in-law was trained in both traditional Chinese and western medicine. I asked him once if he knew any acupressure that would help me quit smoking (he was retired when he came here, so never got licensed for acupuncture). He said yes, grabbed my arm and squeezed. I figured if someone did that to me every time I started to light up, I'd quit in no time. (Zyban for a week finally did the trick, thank you.)



magilla  Thursday Jun 15 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnee123
Good point. In fact, I think that is the basis of much of those types of "medicine." Kind of a mind over matter thing. If you are concentrating on the sucking of your skin, or a walnut in your eye, or needles sticking out of various body parts, you may be relaxing and not thinking of whatever ails you, therefore aiding the process of healing.

But I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV.
It's called the placebo effect.

Chris


footfootfoot  Thursday Jun 15 10:44 AM

Yes, but can chinese medicine cure Ed Zachary disease?



Karenv  Thursday Jun 15 11:57 AM

Okay, here is where I reveal myself as a Doctor of Traditional Oriental Medicine, US and China trained, and a purveyor of moxabustion, cupping, needling and similar practices that may seem quite bizarre but which generally work.

Now, it isn't just placebo, but ALL medicine, including magilla's Zyban works better if it engages the placebo response. And placebo, for those of you who think it means "fake" really means engaging your body's own defenses to fight disease. (Magilla, btw, ear needling using the NADA protocal works better than grabbing pressure points on the arm. I have even used it effectively with crack addicts, along with counselling.)

Cupping, which is used extensively in a number of cultures- Russians, Italians, Egyptians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, other Africans- works by
stimulating circulation and the immune response expressed through the blood, with some nerve stimulation thrown in for good measure. I have used it to lower blood pressure and once to stop hiccouping of several days duration. It may be acompanied by pricking the skin first, which yes does draw blood and sets off an immune cascade.

Now I have never seen the opthamologic moxa eyeglasses, or a moxa stick in the ear. The techniques taught in US schools are somewhat limited. Although they told us that an acupuncture student should always have a blister from direct moxa on Stomach 36, I never met anyone here who followed that advice. If you make a tiny cone of moxa and light it on a watermelon it will make a laser-like hole through the middle of the melon. Mugwort has some very cool properties.



Karenv  Thursday Jun 15 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff
I've seen the results on the back of a child. I wonder how it would have played out if his teacher didn't know where they came from...?
In NYC where I am located, the population is international enough that teachers tend to know about cupping*. But most acupuncturists have heard enough horror stories that they provide a printed notice about the treatment for the child to bring to school or to carry around.

Although no one has actually been found liable for anything, some acupuncturists have had to cancel appointments and give depositions or go to court.

*But not enough- when my son went on a tour of the Tenement Museum on the Lower East Side, they didn't believe him when he correctly identified the cups.


Kitsune  Thursday Jun 15 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenv
And placebo, for those of you who think it means "fake" really means engaging your body's own defenses to fight disease.
Care to explain this theory? I've never heard of anything suggesting placebos trigger an immune/defense response other than those that are conditioned responses. The other prominent theory, the exectancy theory, certainly doesn't follow your idea, either.


barefoot serpent  Thursday Jun 15 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenv
Cupping, ... I have used it to stop hiccouping of several days duration.
cupping to stop hiccupping...

or did the thought of the process just scare them enough?


rkzenrage  Thursday Jun 15 02:58 PM

I just thought the big doob was helping, until I realized it was in her ear. That is just WRONG!!!!



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Jun 15 05:02 PM

Both ears.



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