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   Undertoad  Tuesday Apr 2 03:49 PM

4/2: Ramallah haul



According to the Israeli Defense Force's own site at www.idf.il this is a picture of some of the haul from Arafat's headquarters, including mortars and some heavy-duty stuff. All of it weaponry that, according to them, he is not supposed to have, according to previous negotiations.

I know, I know... here I am single-sourcing information from what is probably the most biased source anywhere. I can't help it! Someone pointed to www.idf.il and I thought the images there were pretty amazing. The problem is, whomever manages the site doesn't understand that 1 MB GIF images are inappropriate for web viewing. I've converted that one to JPG and it's now about 35k. Any crappiness of the image is their fault.

They're also saying they've found a cache of counterfeit Israeli money, and documents that show some of the connections that paid for this loot.

If this is not fake, it's amazing. If this IS fake, it's amazing too.



verbatim  Tuesday Apr 2 05:30 PM

They spelled Arafat wrong at the bottom of the picture.

Just thought id point that out



Torrere  Tuesday Apr 2 06:23 PM

I'd guess it's spelled differently in different regions. The Israelis are probably the people least likely to misspell his name.

Although it could also be that all of this loot was taken from Araft's Headquarters. Yasser Arafat has no relation to all of this weaponry.



Lost Viking  Tuesday Apr 2 06:39 PM

Sorry, but this isn't impressive at all... it looks like a lot of stuff but if you look at the close up shots:

http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pic...02/april/1.stm

One can easily make the conclusion that:

That is not a mortar. It's a single russian RPG launcher (with a shitload of ammunition, although all looks like anti-personel fragmentation. I'm not certain but i think the anti-tank HEAT version has a longer nose cone)

Three machine guns (Two Russian and a FN-SAW used by most NATO forces)

Two Assault rifles (One M-16 and a FNC or some kind of Isreali AK-clone) One of Arafats (failed) jobs was to crack down on militants, he needs this kind of weapons for his SWAT teams.

A buch of standard issue police weapons such as pistols, revolvers, shotguns and two sub-machine guns. Not surprising considering that Arafats compound is a prison rebuilt as headquarters and police station with one active prison block.

The rest is just ammo mags and single shells. Not even in any kind of quantity.

With the exception of the two machine guns and the RPG you'll find more weapons than this in your average European/American police station in a 50000-population town.

Mortars, Quassam-rocket parts and anti-tank mines would be something to show for.

This is nothing.

(And i'm not even against Israels current strategey, just trying be objective)



Nic Name  Tuesday Apr 2 07:28 PM

Now, this is an Arafat image of the day ...

WYSIWYG



mulgorod  Wednesday Apr 3 05:54 AM

I don't know a lot about guns, but I'm going to note that Lost Viking isn't far off the mark on this one. This isn't a lot of weaponry.

I have a friend who's quite zealous about arms, and his personal collection looks nearly as voluminous as what is presented in this graphic. That's one Canadian citizen vs. a supposedly impressive collection of an entire nation.

I'm not impressed. Then again, I'm also drunk. Refute me in the morning, I usually wake up at noon, PST.

Cheers,
Ben



jaguar  Wednesday Apr 3 07:26 AM

I have to agree, not much there, not exactly waht i'd be showing off, its not liek there was a frigging nuke in there. SOme of the stuff on the far side looks like webbing not even arms for crying out loud.
The IDF link jsut makes it worse, my god, he had SHOTGUN ammo and RIFLE SCOPES. THe only thing of any importance was one RPG that looks like a WW2 relic.



CharlieG  Wednesday Apr 3 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lost Viking
Sorry, but this isn't impressive at all... it looks like a lot of stuff but if you look at the close up shots:
I agree, not all that impressive, heck I know guys with that much shotgun ammo. A good day of skeet shooting will take you though 500 or so rounds

...snip

Quote:
That is not a mortar. It's a single russian RPG launcher (with a shitload of ammunition, although all looks like anti-personel fragmentation. I'm not certain but i think the anti-tank HEAT version has a longer nose cone)
I _THINK_ I saw ONE mortar round there - 6th picture, slightly to the right of the RPG rounds (It's pale green)

Quote:
Three machine guns (Two Russian and a FN-SAW used by most NATO forces)
Yeah, and a heck of a lot of linked .50 cal

Quote:
The rest is just ammo mags and single shells. Not even in any kind of quantity.

With the exception of the two machine guns and the RPG you'll find more weapons than this in your average European/American police station in a 50000-population town.
Agreed - not very impressive except for the RPGs and LMGs - plus I saw a few grenades

I won't say that Arafat is clean, but...


tw  Wednesday Apr 3 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mulgorod
I don't know a lot about guns, but I'm going to note that Lost Viking isn't far off the mark on this one. This isn't a lot of weaponry.
The point was to make Arafat appear to be a terrorist. But even the White House stocks more arms than are displayed here. Perspective. The White House is not even in a war zone but stocks far more weapons. Arafat's people are suppose to protect him in a war zone. Pathetic how few arms the Palestinians had to protect themselves from the army of an officially declared racist nation.

So what is a terrorist? People whose protection forces stock arms to protect their citizens? Then most police departments in America would qualify as terrorist organizations. In a meeting of 57 Islamic nations in SE Aisa, all but two even refuse to declare suicide bombers as terrorists. The only two to agree with George Jr are Bosnia and Malaysia.

So what is a terrorist? The one point acknowledged to be wrong, even by America's closest allies, is that George Jr's definition of terrorist is flawed if not just naive. What is a terrorist? Someone who stocks these weapons?


Slight  Wednesday Apr 3 11:11 PM

Quote:
...What is a terrorist?...
Terrorism is another word for asymetrical attack. It is used to make the enemy look (more) evil and to take away your rights. Terrorism is just another type of warfare like guerilla warfare. The problem is: the only thing these warriors/terrorists achieve is terror. No land is taken, no power is hoarded, people simply fear you.

It only gets interesting when there is a political group attached to terrorist group like the IRA and possibly Arafat's group.


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