Undertoad Thursday Aug 1 02:18 PM
8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
blowmeetheclown Thursday Aug 1 02:25 PM
Iranian Liberace fits the man, I think.
dasviper Thursday Aug 1 04:49 PM
Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
Big deal. Maybe he also likes jam on his toast, or getting it on doggy style. Who cares what he thinks of dancing? Do you have reason to believe that he wants the opportunity to force that belief on others? Like you say, tolerance should be valued, but you're not showing a lot of tolerance for his beliefs.
hairdog Thursday Aug 1 04:53 PM
Really! You should not criticize Mr. Ashcroft. Such criticism can be seen as anti-patriotic. We'll be sending a truth squad to your door to see if you are complying with the US Patriot Act.
Undertoad Thursday Aug 1 05:54 PM
No, it's fair; I should have better evidence before posting something like that, ortherwise it's hypocritical.
warch Thursday Aug 1 06:31 PM
dasviper Thursday Aug 1 06:48 PM
Bitman Thursday Aug 1 07:15 PM
Re: Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
And we do attempt it, too; at the very least by demonstration (simply getting up and dancing), in the middle (in the US at least) by voting, and at most by actual dictate (your boss, at work).
doc Friday Aug 2 02:20 AM
To get back on subject...
...what's with the cane? Does he think he's Little Joe Peep? Or, is there some significance to Iranian dance?
juju Friday Aug 2 07:57 AM
Re: Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
jaguar Friday Aug 2 09:04 AM
I do not like fundies in power, fundies use religion to jsutify the unjustifyable.
Tobiasly Friday Aug 2 10:51 AM
Re: Re: Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
To continue an earlier theme, you sound rather intolerant of religious wackos. Don't you think tolerance is a good thing?
Bigsarge Friday Aug 2 10:59 AM
Amazing, we start off talking about an Iranian dancer and end up talking about religion. (Have we forgotten what the Iranians did to us in 79) Who gives a rats hind end what happens to the guy. Let them hang him... their country, their rules. With what happened on 9-11 and us being at war (I am a soldier) I much prefer the current administration over the former bunch of hoodlums. IMHP, if Gore were president (God Forbid) we would not have 1 Al Queda captive in Cuba, and Afghanistani women would still be shrouded in burlap bags. Who cares what John Ashcroft believes in, as long as he is performing his duties to the country. Seems to me that no one cared what Clinton or his cronies did, or believed in. Get off Ashcroft and get behind your country.
Griff Friday Aug 2 11:26 AM
Whats the difference between a petty criminal and a great criminal? Opportunity. Bush is pulling shit since "everthing changed" that Clinton only dreamed (dreams) of. Get behind the Constitution you swore to protect.
Undertoad Friday Aug 2 11:31 AM
Dude, I'm behind the country 100%. The reason I personally watch Iran is because I would rather there not be another 1979 and I would far rather you not be put in harm's way.
Bigsarge Friday Aug 2 11:33 AM
President Bush (I never used that term for Clinton) is exactly the man I want in office. Can we help it if the low life, scum sucking, demagogs in congress, both Rep's and Dem's, can't get off their fat asses and do something right for once, he wouldn't have to push so hard for so many things. Makes you wonder doesn't it, what could be next. Could it be an invasion of Iraq (been there done that...hated it, too many diaper heads) or could it be a TAX CUT for all Americans. Now wouldnt that be special!
Bigsarge Friday Aug 2 11:40 AM
Very eloquently put. I keep an eye on Iran each time it pops up somewhere. It seems as if a radical shift may be in the making, but I give it a good 5 years before there is any REAL change. The current mullahs have to die before we see anything happening. Could we help the process along, undoubtadely, but it will cost us more money than I believe our pres is willing to commit. Have you ever noticed how we can't get a decent tax cut from congress, yet they throw money all over the world to "help" people?
juju Friday Aug 2 11:47 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
I live in the Bible Belt, so I get extra exposure to this. I'm fine with those religious people who leave me alone. By my definition, though, those people aren't wackos.
Ehh.. sorry to go off topic.
warch Friday Aug 2 01:59 PM
I'm fascinated by the more moderate Iran's young model of religious- quasi democratic government. The complete marriage of THE church and state. Its important to be aware of the struggles there- From our dancing friend to the recent clamp down on women seeking education abroad- we can learn.
Griff Sunday Aug 4 10:14 AM
If Bigsarge is still here, I'd like him to weigh in here. I think we need a conservatives view on the question there. What does it mean to you, to be free?
joquarky Saturday Aug 10 04:38 AM
Re: Re: 8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained
Bigsarge Monday Aug 12 11:56 AM
Tolerance and Freedom
Morning all, sorry, had to be gone for a few days. Purchasing managers jobs are never done. The great thing about tolerance is that I can choose when, where and what to be tolerant of. I thank my God that he has given me a wonderful mind, that I control and that I use to make decisions. Please don't even attempt to push tolerance down my throat, you will awaken a sleeping giant. I worked at a midwestern university where I refused to take "Multi-cultural Relationship Awareness" classes and was called some of the most in-tolerant names you can imagine. What a crock, multi-culturalism... I have lived, fought, played with, drank, laughed and cried with men from almost every race and ethnicity (what a nice word) that America has to offer. I learned how to be tolerant of others before tolerance was shoved down the throats of Americans. You know what tolerance is, it is being able to control your emotions through times of interacting with people you just want to throw into the dumpster. Freedom to me is having the ability to decide what is right, and best for MY family. It means allowing the government to have a bit of a deeper presence in my life, if it will protect my family, my neighbors and most importantly, my country. It is being able to call or write my representatives and tell them exactly how I feel without fear of reprisal. Most importantly, to me, it is being able to worship whenever, wherever and however I want, without fear of my door being busted down by the "religious police". We live in the greatest nation that has ever, since the beginning of humanity, been. I hear people say that we are not tolerant of those less fortunate than us. I feel for those who suffer needlessly, but if you truly look at the suffering in the world, it has been caused, primarily by governmental entities, to include our own. Our job as human beings is to love our brothers and sisters around the world. That does not mean that I have to like what they do, and especially like what they stand for but to be willing to stand up for the rights of every citizen of this world. See, I have tolerance for everyone, as long as they believe what I do. Freedom is being allowed to get onto the internet and being allowed to spout out, without worrying who is seeing it. That is why communism failed so miserably, everyone was equal in the eyes of everyone else. Thank God that we live in a country that has rich and poor, sick and healthy, Christian and Muslim, sane and insane. Be thankful for what has been given each of us, the ability to live in America, and all the freedom's that are associated with that pleasure. Not everything in this world is free, never will be, but at least I live in a place where I can decide for myself. (Lookout.... I just fell off my soap box.)
Xugumad Monday Aug 12 01:50 PM
As long you realize that it's just a belief, and not an actual fact, and as long as you don't try to base your actions on that belief ("Because America is the greatest nation ever, we can do this, and we shall do that, and that's our justification for it."), there won't be any trouble. If you do base actions affecting the citizens of other countries on that rationale ("In order to protect our great country and the American Way of Life.."), however, issues will arise.
On a purely personal note, I do agree that there are many things that are pretty good about the US.
Being only tolerant of things you believe in as well has another name. (since, by implication, you are intolerant of things you don't believe in)
(By the way, and slightly off-topic, this is also an important point relating to 'tolerance' and 'acceptance', which aren't the same thing: You tolerate things you disagree with, and which you find objectionable. You accept things that you give equal footing in your considerations. To give another example, that's the difference between tolerating homosexuals and accepting them. The majority of most rich first-world countries' populations nowadays tolerate homosexuality, and homosexual behaviour. They do not, however, accept it, i.e. giving it equal consideration as an accepted means of conduct, it's merely tolerated. Thus the abundance of anti-homosexual practices laws still on the books, the refusal to accept homosexual marriages in the US, etc.)
Has thought-crime been institutionalized yet?
PS: (As yet another tolerance/acceptance example, I tolerate racist fundamentalists; I don't believe that they are right, and I believe that with reasonable education racism and fundamentalism can be eliminated, but I tolerate them as an aspect of society, even though I could probably put burning crosses in their front yards, just to see what they'd feel like being harassed. I could never accept such bigotry, however.)
dave Monday Aug 12 01:59 PM
And on another personal note, this may be the first post you've ever written that I 100% agree with.
Bigsarge Monday Aug 12 06:34 PM
Let the Dead Horse lie.
Ladies and gentleman, the time has come to stop beating this dead horse. WE all have our personal views on this dancer and his own problems, just as we have our views on this glorious country we live in. One where we are free to choose as we wish those whom will serve as our mouthpieces in the hallowed halls of congress (as well as in alot of dark damp corners around town - lived in D.C 4-years, saw alot that you would not want to know). I love my country, not afraid to say it, and would die to protect my family first, then my country. Love my freedom and all the responsibilities it gives me. Love all of you for the absolutely fascinating posts I have read. Keep it up and keep it cool and always remember, don't sweat the small stuff, and everything is small stuff.
Xugumad Monday Aug 12 07:03 PM
Undertoad Monday Aug 12 08:11 PM
May be, but "Provocateur" is one of the auto-titles I made up. Anyone with 9 posts gets that title (I think it's 9).
Bigsarge Tuesday Aug 13 10:59 AM
How dare you acuse me of reading such trash as Us and/or TV Guide. I am deeply offended. I will have you know that all of my pertinant information comes directly from the only sanctioned source that our government allows each civil employee to read during their work day. I am referring, of course, to The National Enquirer. Where would this country be without the Enquirer. My God you would never have known that JFK has a nightly meeting with G.W. BTY - did you see GW on the news last night clearing brush off of his ranch in TX? This is a man's man, with perhaps the smallest chain saw I have ever seen. What I noticed most was all of the other people standing around while he did all the work. Must be government employees (or Democrats.... Ouch!!)
Xugumad Tuesday Aug 13 11:16 AM
Anyway, here's <a href="http://salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/07/01/tomo/story.jpg">something</a> for you to do, in case you ever feel doubts about your loyalty...
Tobiasly Tuesday Aug 13 11:22 AM
I tried to take your quiz, but the choices were too confusing. I think I voted for Pat Buchanan, but I'm not sure.
Bigsarge Tuesday Aug 13 11:46 AM
I find that cartoon quiz offensive, funny - yet offensive. No god fearing, truth loving American would ever answer no to one of those questions. My God man, these questions are the essence of our countr's moral fiber. Without these qualities where in the hell would we, as a country be? Caves are not good enough for some people. Of course I reserve the right to consider whom those people may be.
Undertoad Tuesday Aug 13 11:56 AM
It's funny if you believe in specific stereotypes though!
Bigsarge Tuesday Aug 13 12:32 PM
Tom Tomorrow, he OWES me money. Where do I find the rest of his work. Mind you, I am not a stereotypical kind of guy. In the famous words of that poet of poets, Popeye "I ams what I ams."
Xugumad Tuesday Aug 13 12:55 PM
His site and blog: http://www.thismodernworld.com/
His place on Salon: http://salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/07/01/tomo/
chrisinhouston Wednesday Aug 14 10:36 AM
We may live in a country in which we hope Mr. Ashcroft's desires may not become reality but I found this in today's LA Times: