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   xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Mar 22 12:50 AM

Mar 22, 2009: EDAR

EDAR stands for "Everyone Deserves a Roof"
It's a cross between a shopping cart and a pop-up camper.

Quote:
The EDAR is the brainchild of Peter Samuelson, a philanthropist and film producer whose credits include "Revenge of the Nerds" and "Arlington Road." His father, Sydney, founded Samuelson Film Service, a supplier of film and TV equipment, and in 1995 was knighted for his service to the British film industry.

Peter Samuelson went to Cambridge University on a full scholarship, earned a master's degree in English literature and became fluent in French. He started in the film business as an interpreter for U.S. companies operating in Africa and Europe. In 1975, after living off and on in Los Angeles, he settled here permanently, married an accountant and had four children.
Samuelson is an old hand at charity;
Quote:
In 1990, he brought together director Steven Spielberg and Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, among others, to create the Starbright Foundation, which develops software and other products to help children cope with the medical, emotional and social challenges of their illnesses. In 2004, Starlight and Starbright merged to become the Starlight Starbright Children's Foundation. Another Samuelson charity, First Star, advocates for abused and neglected children.
Here's Samuelson sitting on an EDAR, in a rather pristine setting.



He sponsored a design contest, had several sizes built, in variations that even have pockets for collected cans/bottles.
He had them tested for ruggedness, and critiqued by a bunch of experts and laymen, before settling on the final product.
He figures manufacturing them in large quantities will bring the cost under $500, so they could be used not only for street homeless, but around the world at refugee centers and for disaster relief.
A Los Angeles women's shelter is using them indoors for women with small children.

Here's an EDAR actually in use, in a more natural setting.



All is not sweetness and light, however... there are questions.
Quote:
Meanwhile, lawyers are sorting out legal issues. Will municipal codes allow users to park their units anywhere? What about constitutional questions and not-in-my-backyard complaints?

Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the UC Irvine School of Law, said police fear the units could constitute dwellings where inhabitants would have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In that scenario, police would need warrants to search EDARs, which could become havens for drug use or prostitution. Chemerinsky maintains that cities could allow the units in designated public places as long as users consented to be searched, much like travelers entering an airport.
LA Times


newtimer  Sunday Mar 22 01:10 AM

You know what would make good, easily-portable dwellings for homeless people? Big prams.



SPUCK  Sunday Mar 22 06:00 AM

$500!!!! That's absurd.

Just another government money drain.



TheMercenary  Sunday Mar 22 09:42 AM

They could just make them out of see through plastic to remove the fears of the police search and seziure laws. That would sort of defeat the purpose.



xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Mar 22 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPUCK View Post
$500!!!! That's absurd.

Just another government money drain.
Uh, not the government, charity.


capnhowdy  Sunday Mar 22 02:58 PM

Here lately, It looks like the government IS a charity.



Diaphone Jim  Sunday Mar 22 03:33 PM

While it might be more difficult to travel with, the culvert section in the background would provide much greater protection from various falling and projected objects. Remember Skylab.



Cloud  Sunday Mar 22 08:40 PM

loads better than a cardboard box



monster  Sunday Mar 22 09:20 PM

Right, but.... you can get a basic 2-person dome tent from Walmart for about 30 bucks. What in the hell makes it SO expensive to produce a one-person pop-up?

And the thing is..... much as I appreciate the sentiment..... the one thing I have learned since I've moved to the US is this: In the US, people don't appreciate stuff if it's free. Make them work for it or pay half or just something and they'll take good care of whatever they're getting. I understand this is harder with the homeless, they have less to give, but for an investement of this nature, I would suggest the charity involved doesn't just pass them out willy nilly.



TheMercenary  Sunday Mar 22 09:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Right, but.... you can get a basic 2-person dome tent from Walmart for about 30 bucks. What in the hell makes it SO expensive to produce a one-person pop-up?

And the thing is..... much as I appreciate the sentiment..... the one thing I have learned since I've moved to the US is this: In the US, people don't appreciate stuff if it's free. Make them work for it or pay half or just something and they'll take good care of whatever they're getting. I understand this is harder with the homeless, they have less to give, but for an investement of this nature, I would suggest the charity involved doesn't just pass them out willy nilly.
Goes along with the general attitude in this country of not caring how much it costs as long as someone else is paying for it.


jinx  Sunday Mar 22 09:57 PM

Yes, what monster said...



lumberjim  Sunday Mar 22 10:25 PM

the fucking cock smoker in the picture should have his kneecaps broken.

for shame! and they tout his charitable works.....i wonder how much he made off the charity of people sympathetic to 'the children' in his previous ventures.

here's a scumbag we can all hate

under $500 indeed



jinx  Sunday Mar 22 10:33 PM

IKEA could get this done for $50.



Beestie  Sunday Mar 22 11:02 PM

And who is going to assemble the thing? Can you see the average bag lady reading the translated Chinese instructions in four point font with all the pipes, hooks, screws and bungees next to her with a flashlight in her mouth.

"...insert for to pipe B1a to slot G37 then to hook grommet to for bungee attach pipe C1b to ground. For to enjoy"



classicman  Sunday Mar 22 11:13 PM

mmmm - "for to enjoy"



monster  Sunday Mar 22 11:32 PM

pop-up requires no assembly other than "undo velcrose"



classicman  Sunday Mar 22 11:57 PM

I do like that it keeps the base of the unit about 6" off the ground that is different than your typical tent - $500 worth



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Mar 23 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim View Post
the fucking cock smoker in the picture should have his kneecaps broken.

for shame! and they tout his charitable works.....i wonder how much he made off the charity of people sympathetic to 'the children' in his previous ventures.

here's a scumbag we can all hate

under $500 indeed
Whoa, where did that come from? What makes you think he made anything off those charities? Fill us in.


SPUCK  Monday Mar 23 05:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beestie View Post
"...insert for to pipe B1a to slot G37 then to hook grommet to for bungee attach pipe C1b to ground. For to enjoy"



glatt  Monday Mar 23 09:42 AM

The best analogy for one of these things is a shopping cart. This is basically a shopping cart that unfolds into a tent. The cost isn't just in the canvas tent, it's in the convertible cart.

Just by way of example, the smallest folding Magliner hand truck costs $299 in my 2002 Grainger catalog. The cheapest non folding wire mail room cart costs $268 in the same catalog. They go up to $400 when you get them with the good wheels. If you are just buying the individual medium duty swivel locking caster wheels, you'll pay about $20 each. So it's about $80 just for the wheels. Remember that this thing is intended to be pushed all over the city by homeless dudes. It's got to be durable. It's intended to hold lots of empty bottles and cans for scroungers. Not to mention personal belongings. It's got to be durable, otherwise there is no point. A cheap Walmart tent will break its zipper after a season or two of light use. This thing will be used every day for months, at a minimum.

$500 seems like a lot of money, but the Army would design this same tent for $50,000.

Look at that frame.



Shawnee123  Monday Mar 23 09:44 AM

I think one of the big differences between the EDAR and a Walmart tent is that the EDAR is elevated off the ground. There must be some advantage to not having your ass lying directly on the, in many cases, freezing cold hard ground.



glatt  Monday Mar 23 10:06 AM

It's nice to be off the ground when it is wet and/or cold. Plus, creepy crawly things are less likely to come inside when you are off the ground.



Shawnee123  Monday Mar 23 10:07 AM

See, I couldn't be homeless because of creepy crawlies. Fearless except for creepy crawlies. :shudder:



Sundae  Monday Mar 23 10:10 AM

WOW. Some very harsh Merkin opinions here.
Two countries divided by a gulf of immense proportions.

Yes, $500 is a LOT.
But for goodness sake, these are PEOPLE we are talking about. Sentient cratures? You know? Dogs & whales & cows & all that shite... No, people. Your States don't like them killed by abortion, but is happy for them to die of hypothermia?

Sheesh.
Get a school to sponsor a hobo.
Buy them a $500 shelter. Keep them in the drug of their choice. After all, humans are so important. Oh, I forgot, some of your States like to kill them too.

PS - we're rubbish re the homeless too, so I'm not trying to take the moral highground. But at least we have the Big Issue



classicman  Monday Mar 23 10:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnee123 View Post
the EDAR is elevated off the ground.
eh hem - see post #17

great minds think alike


lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae Girl View Post
WOW. Some very harsh Merkin opinions here.
Two countries divided by a gulf of immense proportions.

Yes, $500 is a LOT.
But for goodness sake, these are PEOPLE we are talking about. Sentient cratures? You know? Dogs & whales & cows & all that shite... No, people. Your States don't like them killed by abortion, but is happy for them to die of hypothermia?

Sheesh.
Get a school to sponsor a hobo.
Buy them a $500 shelter. Keep them in the drug of their choice. After all, humans are so important. Oh, I forgot, some of your States like to kill them too.

PS - we're rubbish re the homeless too, so I'm not trying to take the moral highground. But at least we have the Big Issue
the issue i have with it is not the idea of providing tents....my issue is that there is clearly $450 of profit margin in each tent for the jerkoff in the suit and the people he has to bribe to get this through.


Shawnee123  Monday Mar 23 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
eh hem - see post #17

great minds think alike
Ooops, pardon my tail, um, ,post.


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Mar 23 10:52 AM

Wait a minute, he's not making $450, he's not making anything. He's paying the $500 and giving them away. Why do you have a problem with Peter Samuelson, Jim???



lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 11:00 AM

he's paying the $500?

personally?



Trilby  Monday Mar 23 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae Girl View Post
...But for goodness sake, these are PEOPLE we are talking about. Sentient cratures? You know? Dogs & whales & cows & all that shite... No, people. Your States don't like them killed by abortion, but is happy for them to die of hypothermia?
Now you're on the trolley


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Mar 23 11:09 AM

So far he's paid a hell of a lot more than that to get this designed and built. He said made in quantity, they could be made for less than $500. I don't think he intends to keep buying them, that's what the charity will do, he just got it off the ground.

I don't see where he's making any money on this deal, or any of the other charities he's started, which is why I wanted to know why you wanted to break his kneecaps? If you actually know he's been screwing somebody, fill us in.



Sundae  Monday Mar 23 11:11 AM

I'm off my trolley.
(may be a Brit phrase)



rotary65  Monday Mar 23 11:18 AM

It is unfortunate that we would judge someone and question their motives so quickly on the basis of a $500 pricetag and comparison shopping pricing from Walmart (the benchmark importer of cheaply made Chinese products - an organization associated with negative social impacts and questionable ethics itself).

Surely further investigation and fact finding is warranted before coming to any conclusion, especially one so harsh.

In the absence of such information, perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt and not question Mr. Samuelson's motives so harshly and publicly.

I did follow a few links and check out some pages (for example, Wikipedia has an entry for Mr. Samuelson) and found nothing so far that would decribe him as an opportunist or exploiter; quite the contrary.

Judge no man without first trying to walk in his shoes.



Trilby  Monday Mar 23 11:19 AM

I was chanelling a Simpson's episode there, sundae. It's an old-timey way of saying "you're right about that" -

Spud, a young carnie, was teaching Bart the art of attracting customers to a rigged carnival game. He called the targets 'pigeons' and 'rubes' - all that stuff...had to be there...

my mind is just a big simpson-y recepticle...sigh.



Trilby  Monday Mar 23 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotary65 View Post
Surely further investigation and fact finding is warranted before coming to any conclusion, especially one so harsh.

In the absence of such information, perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt and not question Mr. Samuelson's motives so harshly and publicly.

Say, friend. You're new around these parts, ain't you?


lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
So far he's paid a hell of a lot more than that to get this designed and built. He said made in quantity, they could be made for less than $500. I don't think he intends to keep buying them, that's what the charity will do, he just got it off the ground.

I don't see where he's making any money on this deal, or any of the other charities he's started, which is why I wanted to know why you wanted to break his kneecaps? If you actually know he's been screwing somebody, fill us in.
i don't

i'm just jaded and assume that there is something in it for him. something big and green.

i might be out of line entirely. and of course, i would never actually cause physical harm to another human being.....I was just being dramatic.....and I may have been a bit tipsy when i posted that......

but usually.....when a person is doing a 'charitable' work....they are giving something more than the minimum required to that charity in order to qualify......and while the organization may be 'non profit'.....dude is pulling a paycheck that makes it well worth his time......


rotary65  Monday Mar 23 11:25 AM

Quote:
You're new around these parts, ain't you?
Lurking for a long time and read something that moved me enough to reply. A bit of an appeal for respect and compassion really.

Please forgive my intrusion if I am out of touch with spirit of the larger Cellar community. If so, I will withdraw back into the shadows.

For reference, Wikipedia defines Mr. Samuelson as a Social Entrepreneur. Their defintion of that term may help provide a context.


lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotary65 View Post
It is unfortunate that we would judge someone and question their motives so quickly on the basis of a $500 pricetag and comparison shopping pricing from Walmart (the benchmark importer of cheaply made Chinese products - an organization associated with negative social impacts and questionable ethics itself).

Surely further investigation and fact finding is warranted before coming to any conclusion, especially one so harsh.

In the absence of such information, perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt and not question Mr. Samuelson's motives so harshly and publicly.

I did follow a few links and check out some pages (for example, Wikipedia has an entry for Mr. Samuelson) and found nothing so far that would decribe him as an opportunist or exploiter; quite the contrary.

Judge no man without first trying to walk in his shoes.
YES YES

sure sure

all that is quite right. It just doesn't fit well with my own particular idiom.


rotary65  Monday Mar 23 11:35 AM

Ok, ok, sorry for being so serious!

Now, where's the hot sauce and how would one go about barbequing an EDAR and what would it taste like anyway?

Back to the fun!



Sundae  Monday Mar 23 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna View Post
I was chanelling a Simpson's episode there, sundae. It's an old-timey way of saying "you're right about that"
Soz, chick. It wasn't aimed at anyone specific.

But I was riled.

People in this country have problems with the homeless (read the Hate Mail or my 'rents fave The Express) but "Sometimes our best intentions do not go
amiss; sometimes we do as we meant to" (Sometimes, Sheenagh Pugh). What she writes is true for me - I'd like to think that most of us DO make an effort.

It hurts me when people I care about, people I revere, make statements that I can't countenance. Statements that dismiss other people as just nothing. I am an atheist. I don't believe in a soul. But oddly, I seem to place more value in a human life than some Dwellars who think they will live forever. I certainly seem to place more immportance in human life then many Christians I know. And I'm happy to debate this (in a different thread).

Sorry, I am being a witch here. But I do believe it.


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Mar 23 11:42 AM

You're right rotary65, I did a lot of Googling on Mr Samuelson and couldn't find anything negative. He's on the boards of a number of charities which are accredited by the BBB Wise Giving Alliance. In order to be accredited the board members can not be compensated, as I understand it.
Mr Samuelson could be the Devil himself, but I haven't found anything. Maybe Sheldon could shed some light on it?

btw, I tried to post another IOtD last night but fucking Comcast was fucking down fucking again, but now I'll let this one play awhile.



Trilby  Monday Mar 23 01:35 PM

#1) rotary65 -- I did call you 'friend'

#2) sundae -- you're right. especially when it comes to the Every Sperm is Sacred crowd not really giving a good gawddamn about that Sperm once it's all grown up and needing a pot to piss in.

I'm in total agreement with you there.



hulk  Monday Mar 23 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
loads better than a cardboard box
"Luxury. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt."

"Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah."


Cicero  Monday Mar 23 04:11 PM

Yes!!! I think I can fit my dog, and books in there; and still sleep comfortably. Nice! I might even be able to install a 2 stroke and headlights. Go mobile!



Undertoad  Monday Mar 23 04:17 PM

Which bring up a good point... $500 will get you a car, on Craigslist.

Getting it official costs a little more, and it may not actually run for very long, but it's a car and even provides an emergency, though pricey, source of heat.

Plus it may lock and prevent vandals from stealing your stuff.



Clodfobble  Monday Mar 23 04:45 PM

And then, if they got into a "who has the worst drivers' license picture" conversation, they would totally win.



capnhowdy  Monday Mar 23 04:49 PM

I slept in a car behind my bro's house for a week or so when I was a teenager. Not too bad. But I was a teenager. Prolly be rough now.



capnhowdy  Monday Mar 23 04:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
And then, if they got into a "who has the worst drivers' license picture" conversation, they would totally win.
For example:
Attachment 22584


Pie  Monday Mar 23 04:59 PM

Thank you for the nightmares, Capn.



Cicero  Monday Mar 23 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Which bring up a good point... $500 will get you a car, on Craigslist.

Getting it official costs a little more, and it may not actually run for very long, but it's a car and even provides an emergency, though pricey, source of heat.

Plus it may lock and prevent vandals from stealing your stuff.
Well, why don't you just put a hole right through my dreams then? What if I can get it in a baby-blue color though?


Shawnee123  Monday Mar 23 06:20 PM

capn, dammit.



monster  Monday Mar 23 08:37 PM

I think it's a great idea and I think it looks like a great design, and I don't doubt that $500 is remarkably cheap for what is involved..... but I seriously doubt that they are going to last as long as they are built for. Many homeless people are so because they're incapable of taking care of themselves, never mind their possessions. A lot of them need so much more than just a roof. I admire the sentiment, I'm concerned about it's practicality. I feel that at that cost, the charity needs to find some way to encourage them to take good care of it. many homeless are addicts to various different substances. When their need got bad enough, what would prevent them from trading it for a hit, or abandoning in search of a hit and it not being there when they come back? Will the charity also be providing locks? With loseable keys or forgettable combinations? they are so many people who prey on the homeless (including other homeless who are just higher up the pecking order and natural bullies/psychos....) this could just become another thing to beat them with unless there are so many they all get one..... maybe they could add thumbprint ID machines to unlock the wheels. But then what of the homeless lepers?



capnhowdy  Monday Mar 23 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pie View Post
Thank you for the nightmares, Capn.
's my job.


Stormieweather  Monday Mar 23 08:56 PM

Sounds just like a ad hoc committee on the issue of the homeless. There is something wrong with every suggestion, so nothing at all gets done.



monster  Monday Mar 23 11:15 PM

fair point....



lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 11:22 PM

why fuck around? why not just hook them up with these?



monster  Monday Mar 23 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim View Post
why fuck around? why not just hook them up with these?
or this


lumberjim  Monday Mar 23 11:34 PM

well. yes......i should have thought of that



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Mar 24 01:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim View Post
why fuck around? why not just hook them up with these?
Too regressive;
Quote:
Does the EDAR enable homelessness by making it more bearable? No, he insists. "Why is the EDAR not regressive?" he said. "Because it is not nearly as good as a shelter bed. There's no pretense it's as good as permanent or temporary brick-and-mortar housing." But it is, he says, "infinitely better than a damp cardboard box."



JuancoRocks  Tuesday Mar 24 02:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnee123 View Post
I think one of the big differences between the EDAR and a Walmart tent is that the EDAR is elevated off the ground. There must be some advantage to not having your ass lying directly on the, in many cases, freezing cold hard ground.
Actually in cold weather lying on the ground is warmer than being elevated above the ground as you can never warm the airspace and cold continues to penetrate above. (experience)

Now lying on wet ground is another story entirely.


SPUCK  Tuesday Mar 24 05:55 AM

Now at night we can sneak up and unlock the wheels. Find a hill... hmmm



Shawnee123  Tuesday Mar 24 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPUCK View Post
Now at night we can sneak up and unlock the wheels. Find a hill... hmmm
Urban cow tipping!


glatt  Tuesday Mar 24 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
maybe they could add thumbprint ID machines to unlock the wheels. But then what of the homeless lepers?
great mental image.


Coign  Tuesday Mar 24 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuancoRocks View Post
Actually in cold weather lying on the ground is warmer than being elevated above the ground as you can never warm the airspace and cold continues to penetrate above. (experience)

Now lying on wet ground is another story entirely.
Actually the first thing you learn in boy scouts is to never sleep on the ground. The ground will rob you of heat faster than air will.

http://wildvistasadventures.com/arti...al-skills.html

Quote:
Never sleep directly on the ground. Lay down some pine boughs, grass, or other insulating material to keep the ground from absorbing your body heat.



glatt  Tuesday Mar 24 10:50 AM

A thin foam pad like the Ridge Rest, is great at keeping you warm when sleeping on the ice cold ground.



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Mar 24 10:54 AM

Quote:
Never sleep directly on the ground. Lay down some pine boughs, grass, or a fresh killed hobo to keep the ground from absorbing your body heat.



classicman  Tuesday Mar 24 12:43 PM

bruce



Shawnee123  Tuesday Mar 24 12:45 PM

"I slaughtered this hobo last week. I think it's startin' to turn."



Gravdigr  Tuesday Mar 24 04:47 PM

@ Shawnee: HAAAAAAAAHA. O brother...

@ this shopping cart/tent concept in general: BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTT!

$500 my big ole white hairy ass!



dar512  Tuesday Mar 24 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
$500 my big ole white hairy ass!
Gravdigr offers his hairy ass for $500.

Will any of the cellar ladies take him up on it?


Shawnee123  Tuesday Mar 24 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dar512 View Post
Gravdigr offers his big ole white hairy ass for $500.

Will any of the cellar ladies take him up on it?
You missed some very important adjectives, there.


Gravdigr  Sunday Mar 29 06:18 PM

Pasty even.



classicman  Monday Jul 18 11:39 AM

Bump -

This thread has been getting hammered by the bots over the last couple days. Whats up with that? Anyone?



Pete Zicato  Monday Jul 18 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
Bump -

This thread has been getting hammered by the bots over the last couple days. Whats up with that? Anyone?
Surge in the market for digr's ass?


Gravdigr  Monday Jul 25 08:12 AM

HeeHee




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