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   Undertoad  Monday Aug 26 12:49 PM

8/26/2002: Jamie Lee Curtis, realist



(All gender confusion rumors aside - and yeah, I do think they were just rumors.)

Jamie Lee Curtis has generally been considered a fairly "hot" actress, amongst those who consider such things. In a magazine coming out soon, she does a photo shoot of what they now go through to give her that image. This is the "before". And yeah, it was considered entertainment news somewhere that a celebrity was going to let the world know what she really looks like.

Ms. Curtis does the world a service by being open about her relative average-ness. We need to get beyond this body image stuff -- that seems to be ever-worsening. I'm not talking about obesity, I'm talking about people feeling good about looking like Jamie Lee's "before".



Nic Name  Monday Aug 26 02:00 PM

American average-ness

Land of the free, home of the fat and unhappy

Quote:
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 61 percent of American adults are now classified as overweight; 26 percent of those are considered obese and an unlucky 3 percent have been branded "morbidly obese."

Our children, too, are bigger than ever. Between 1976 and 1980, 7 percent of American kids ages six to 11 were obese; by 1999, the number of obese kids in this age group had risen to 13 percent. The rate of obese adolescents ages 12 to 19 nearly tripled during the same periods, rising to 14 percent in 1999.
Ms. Curtis does the "world" a service ... really?

Don't worry ... be happy. It's not a problem if we're all over-weight. We're average.


MaggieL  Monday Aug 26 02:01 PM

Gotta admit she cleans up nice. :-)
And if she *is* intersexed or otherwise transgendered, I'm pleased to have her on our team. :-)



henry fitch  Monday Aug 26 10:52 PM

Nic. I believe the idea is that it's okay to have a normal, healthy, non-glamorous body, like the one in that photo. Are you telling us that photo looks obese to you?



Nic Name  Monday Aug 26 11:20 PM

Obese, no. Overweight, yes. Average, yes.

She's more ideal than, say, Calista Flockhart. But she is overweight and out of shape.

She's looked better. (So have I, but I'm not in a magazine in my underwear.)

I wasn't arguing with UT on this point, but just adding another perspective to the discussion.

The CDC stats came out this week. Their point is that more than half of the American population is overweight, and over one quarter is classified as obese.

UT described JLC's "average-ness" and I just wanted to get some perspective on the fact that the average is, as a matter of health, overweight.

In large part, it may be a function of the greater amounts of prepared foods eaten outside the home. Value-added supersized portions are the norm in American restaurants. All you can possibly eat for the price is the value proposition the consumer is being fed.

The linked article makes the point that the American perspective is changing to accept as normal a body condition that is by world standards, and medical health standards according to the CDC, actually overweight.

In growing numbers the condition is really unhealthy and that point was made in another thread discussion, when the schools sent letters to parents noting some children's unhealthy weight conditions.

I think UT was suggesting we should all just lighten up a bit about this weight ... and I'd have to agree.



juju  Monday Aug 26 11:52 PM

There are numerous articles on news sites critiquing the CDC study for having too small a sample. The CDC admits this themselves. Also, the body-mass index measurement that they're using doesn't differentiate between muscle and fat.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/D...es_020726.html



russotto  Monday Aug 26 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nic Name
[b]Obese, no. Overweight, yes. Average, yes.

She's more ideal than, say, Calista Flockhart. But she is overweight and out of shape.
Out of shape, maybe. Overweight, no. Sure, she's got a little flab around her belly, but she's 44 years old; what do you want? BTW, she's 5'9"; according to the CDC guidelines she'd have to be 162 pounds to be overweight.

Quote:
The linked article makes the point that the American perspective is changing to accept as normal a body condition that is by world standards, and medical health standards according to the CDC, actually overweight.
Or maybe the CDC is off. They hold that Shaquille O'Neill and Arnold Schwartznegger are obese, after all.

They claim that at 5'7" and 155 pounds, I'm overweight (though barely). I've BEEN overweight. I'm not now. I've been 145 pounds too, which is in their good range. That was before I did any sort of exercise. If I tried to get to 145 now, I'd just burn muscle. Are a lot of Americans overweight and obese? Sure. Is the CDCs method for determining this any good? I think not. And thus their numbers have to be treated with skepticism, IMO.


Undertoad  Tuesday Aug 27 12:14 AM

Moreover, I've heard about studies that show that 5-10 pounds overweight is healthy. It gives you a reserve if you get really sick, for example. It gives you more leeway before you get dehydrated. So what's "healthy" is style, what's "perfect" is pretty much genetic. And meanwhile we get dizzy, broke, and probably even fat, trying to follow the diet-of-the-day.

And that hotty Julia Child just turned 90, and celebrated with a week's worth of indulgent meals.



juju  Tuesday Aug 27 12:15 AM

Heh.. cool, we posted at the same time! Get out of my head!!



Griff  Tuesday Aug 27 08:56 AM

I just spent a weekend among a large group of recreational and professional cyclists. One friend really was too lean, she was sick recently and had no reserves to get her through the period where she couldn't eat. The bulk of the group was fit and active, as I intend to be as long as I can. A fifty year old woman won the womens cat 3-4 race on Saturday, on the bike she could have passed for late twenties. Americans are generally fat eating a lot of crap and getting little or no exercise. As a choice, thats fine people should be able to choose to be however they want to be. Unfortunately, (oh oh here he goes again) we don't have a free market in health care so the "public" has a vested interest in controlling other peoples lifestyle choices from tobacco to sexual activity to the Big Mac. Our Puritan streak gets justified by cost analyses. So if you smoke or are 30+ pounds overweight and wish to remain so, don't let me catch you voting for Teddy Kennedy. Take responsibility for yourself. [starts looking for a bomb shelter]



Sniper 1  Tuesday Aug 27 11:06 AM

I think she is one hot babe. She absolutely does it for me.

Regardless of the rumors.



lawman  Tuesday Aug 27 12:35 PM

Body Mass index

This still doesn't take into consideration if the individual is a mesomorph, ectomorph, or endomorph, but it does give percentiles of where you would be in the bell curve of the general population.

http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm

There is no one way to measure healthiness.....



Nic Name  Tuesday Aug 27 12:57 PM

Nice link, lawman.

The following quote from that page gets us back to JLC ... and UT's point in the original post in this thread:

Quote:
Above all, Don't Worry, Be Happy. If you are troubled with anxiety over a less-than-perfect body image, that's just not healthy either. A healthy mental attitude is just as important as physical fitness.
I agree with that!


warch  Tuesday Aug 27 04:38 PM

As to whether this is a service to the world...
hmm...the fact that this realistic, and I would argue, very-healthy-looking-44-year-old-child-bearer image (produced to be all about the creation of "the" image), is going to appear in a celebrity mag spread, serves to raise important discussion not just about health and fat, but of the distortion of the public gaze, media intimacy, the power of sexual display, and the slippery-ness of identity.

This is maybe just me, but has anyone else noticed that the closer you are to someone, the harder it is to imagine what they look like in your head? I can conjur a mental image of some co-worker very easily, maybe even draw a decent likeness, but try to sketch out my mom or spouse, its really hard for me. I know them in too many ways other than visual. And then to see them age...Its like they change, but don't, but do,...



goethean  Tuesday Aug 27 05:00 PM

?

> Regardless of the rumors.

Or because of the rumors...?



Slight  Friday Aug 30 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MaggieL
Gotta admit she cleans up nice. :-)
And if she *is* intersexed or otherwise transgendered, I'm pleased to have her on our team. :-)
My sister told me this rumor when I was watching True Lies to fuck with my head. She has only adopted and never given birth and will not comment on the rumor. While it is possible that she is intersexed, she is attractive so it does not matter and should not matter.

I would argue to Nic that the Jamie Lee pictured here is by no means a model athlete or beauty queen she supasses those obese americans with "back ends" that defy the laws of physics. Like I said I would argue but Nic seems pretty level headed and made up for it in his last post.


MaggieL  Saturday Aug 31 12:07 AM

There certainly are other possibilities beyond the frank intersexuality suggested by the Snopes page.

Another is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, a abnormality in the hormone receptors. These receptor normally cause the default feminine sex to masculinize. The result of AIS is a an otherwise fairly feminine body with an XY genotype....with some possible skeletal characteristics that tend to the masculine.

Certainly there are some skeletal markers that folks like me watch for pretty closely (since it takes one to know one); they're stuff those of us who have done a countergender transition simply can't do anything about, absent the future nanotechnology that John Varley wrote about in his <i>Steel Beach</i>.

I do agree with the author of the Snopes page when she says: "As only someone who has seen <b>True Lies</b> can say, if that's not all woman, then maybe we need to rethink what is."



Slight  Saturday Aug 31 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MaggieL
I do agree with the author of the Snopes page when she says: "As only someone who has seen <b>True Lies</b> can say, if that's not all woman, then maybe we need to rethink what is."
Exactly.


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