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   Undertoad  Sunday Sep 15 01:08 PM

9/15/2002: Peugeot "fire car"



Here Peugeot announces a fire-fighting CAR called the "H20". It is all-electric, running on hydrogen fuel cells. The hydrogen is made by the car. That means it needs oxygen too, so it either gets it from the air or uses a spare tank if the air conditions are too smoky. I gather that's the point of the vehicle.

Its auxiliary power unit can run pumps and communications gear.



I'm not sure I get why you'd permanently mount a teeny ladder to the roof. If you want to have something permanently attached, you could make it taller because the car would provide the ballast.

But this is a concept car and there will be some time to work out the bugs if it goes into production.



MaggieL  Sunday Sep 15 06:45 PM

Re: 9/15/2002: Peugeot "fire car"

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad

The hydrogen is made by the car. That means it needs oxygen too, so it either gets it from the air or uses a spare tank if the air conditions are too smoky. I gather that's the point of the vehicle...
But this is a concept car...
Yeah, I'll say.

So...let me understand....the car makes hydrogen (from something)...for the hydrogen fuel cells. Then it needs oxygen to react with the hydrogen to make electricity. Unless the air is too smoky (yeah, sure...if the O2 level is too low to burn hydrogen powering your firecar is going to be the least of your problems. ). So reacting the O2 with the H2 makes....um....water. And electricity.

I suppose it make the hydrogen by electrolysing the water exhaust . :-) Ah, the French!

"So you see we feed the rats to the cats, and the cats to the rats, and get the furs for free!"

<blockquote>
The real humdinger among the concept vehicles, though, is the H2O. Let's check this one out carefully: a rather snazzy-looking fire engine - yes. Ladder on the roof - yes. Water the theme - yes, not just in the context of spraying it over a blaze, but also because the H2O has a fuel cell powertrain, with modest amounts of water being almost the only thing in the exhaust.

Actually, Peugeot uses the expression pile ŗ combustible, which is the (rather rude to Anglo-Saxon ears) French version of fuel cell. Hence the name of the Taxi PAC concept unveiled last year.

The H2O is a step forward in design, though, able to generate fuel in "real time". The point of installing the latest system in a fire engine is that if a vehicle of this kind is working in a smoke-filled environment where there's little or no oxygen, then the oxygen needed for operating the fuel cell can be taken from a tank on board. The H2O also has on-board breathing equipment for fire-fighters to use. </blockquote>

http://www.carkeys.co.uk/features/FE000445.htm

And here's another Peugot concept fire car:



NateXLH1000  Monday Sep 16 03:27 AM

Fuel cells

I think the second fire car is more feasible.

Perhaps when they refer to it producing its own fuel, they mean that it reuses the same water in a closed system. Perhaps you plug it in like a normal electric car to split it up into O and H?
Then it fills its tanks and is "charged".

Or this could be a silly imaginary thing.

Finally, I know that others said this before but I have to say it again:

What is the point of carrying around a 2 meter ladder?

Ever hear a peugeot diesel start on a cold winter morning? souds like it's going to throw a rod! (eventually they do.)



MaggieL  Monday Sep 16 01:00 PM

Re: Fuel cells

Quote:
Originally posted by NateXLH1000

What is the point of carrying around a 2 meter ladder?
Well, it's an extension ladder; I think they could probably get it to a length of 3.5 meters. Which might get them to a height of three meters, if they were lucky.

Obviously the purpose of the ladder is to make it look like a firetruck. Without the ladder it looks like a cop car...or perhaps a cryogenic ambulance. :-)

Reading the press on this gadget, I don't think there's any connection between the water tankage and the fuel cells, despite what's been said. I think it's just a fuel-cell car witha water tank on the back.

There's a lot of "concept cars" that can't even be driven. Most of them show up at car shows and are displayed on a turntable with Jane Jetson leaning on them. :-)


NateXLH1000  Monday Sep 16 02:44 PM

...Jane his wife!....

Now that I look at it again, I think it looks like an autoclave.

Your comment on conceprt cars being non-functional is true.

this is why I love the honda insight and the buell X9BR.
They make wacky things and then just sell them to us.



Bitman  Monday Sep 16 09:03 PM

If this is serious, then its real value is the ability to arrive quickly, and operate right up next to a burning building. Get the doors under control, and the people out. The short ladder and low-oxygen ability seem to confirm this. The rubber tires, on the other hand, don't.

I also wonder if a fuel-cell engine has the power needed to move this thing. Couple hundred gallons of water ain't light, and pumping water through a hose likely takes some HP. Though its up-close ability means it doesn't have to pump very far.



NateXLH1000  Tuesday Sep 17 04:04 AM

Nate

I bet under all of that silly exterior, you will find a standard golf cart chassis.

That is if it moves at all.



Chewbaccus  Wednesday Sep 18 09:34 AM

An interesting thread going here, but one question eludes.

Now, granted I don't know the specs of this car, I don't know what kind of materials and such are going into it. However, I have to ask:

Does anyone else sees a problem with driving a hydrogen-powered car to a fire-besought building? And if not...why?

~mike



perth  Wednesday Sep 18 09:36 AM

uh, i know nothing about hydrogen vs. gasoline, but to me it seems no worse than driving a gasoline powered vehicle to a fire-besought building.

oh, and peugeot kicks ass. i dont care what anyone says, i want one.

~james



Nic Name  Wednesday Sep 18 11:26 AM

Quote:
Does anyone else sees a problem with driving a hydrogen-powered car to a fire-besought building? And if not...why?
Hydrogen myths die hard.


NateXLH1000  Friday Sep 20 08:43 AM

Hydrogen: not just for breakfast anymore

You can't really compare the Hindenburg with the "rescue Le Car"

I would presume that it would not be storing its fuel in rubberized canvas bladders at one atmosphere.

I doubt that the car would release any of its oxygen or hydrogen unles it was crushed or shot.

Imagine the fireworks if someone were to "compromise" the tanks! The Hidenburg didn't carry around pure Oxygen. The Hindenburg just burned with the atmospheric oxygen which is about %23 I think.

If you had a balloon filled with a perfect mix of Oxygen and Hydrogen and that was ignighted, it would explode rather than just burn very quickly.



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