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   xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Apr 11 02:13 AM

April 11, 2010: Toffs and Toughs

Most Brits will recognize this photograph, taken in 1937 outside the 133rd, Eton vs Harrow, Cricket match.
The photograph has been used repeatedly in the Media, and even on book jackets, to illustrate the Class divide in Britain.



What many Brits don't know is;
1~ The photograph was taken by Jimmy Sime, not Bert Hardy.
2~ The two boys on the left, were students at Harrow, not Eton.
3~ The other three boys were not street "toughs", but local boys working at that gate as porters, carrying wicker hampers from spectators' cars into the stands.

George Salmon, Jack Catlin and George Young, the three local boys, lived long happy lives.

Peter Wagner, on the left, died locked up in the East Sussex asylum at Hellingly.

Tim Dyson, leaning on the post, died of Diphtheria the following summer, while visiting his parents stationed in India.

link



SPUCK  Sunday Apr 11 06:34 AM

Fancy clothes will do that.



Cloud  Sunday Apr 11 10:01 AM

I find the walking sticks for these young boys curious. Surely they were quite an anachronism in 1937.



monster  Sunday Apr 11 10:02 AM

So the three on the right were tough after all.



monster  Sunday Apr 11 10:02 AM

They're canes, not walking sticks. For beating the poor with.



Cloud  Sunday Apr 11 10:04 AM

canes then (even tho to me they are synonymous). Were they a prescribed part of the dress uniform or something?



DanaC  Sunday Apr 11 10:51 AM

Most likely.

I was listening to a radio interview the other day and the chap being interviewed had attended a boarding school in the late 60s. They were required to follow a fairly strict dress code, including some totally anachronistic pieces, such as a straw boater.



Undertoad  Sunday Apr 11 10:59 AM

Richard Cory - Edwin Arlington Robinson

Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean-favoured and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good Morning!" and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich, yes, richer than a king,
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine -- we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked and waited for the light,
And went without the meat and cursed the bread,
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet in his head.



monster  Sunday Apr 11 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
canes then (even tho to me they are synonymous). Were they a prescribed part of the dress uniform or something?
A cane would generally not be strong enough to provide any walking support.

As Dana says, most likely the were part of the uniform. If you've read Harry Potter, remember Dudley's Smeltings stick? Whilst HP is fiction, very little in there outside of the magic comes purely from JKs imagination. Even the seven-sided muggle coins.


Cloud  Sunday Apr 11 11:08 AM

huh. OT, but I still remember that in my boarding school around 1970 (I was a day student) the girls had to "dress for dinner" every night in a really ugly uniform dress, hose, and pumps.

and what are canes for, then, if not to provide support? (confused)



xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Apr 11 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
canes then (even tho to me they are synonymous). Were they a prescribed part of the dress uniform or something?
Quote:
Male spectators wore toppers and tails, and women their summer hats and frocks. The Harrovians and Etonians themselves came in their most formal outfits "Sunday dress" as Harrow called it which only a very able student of the English social system could differentiate. The pupils at both schools wore, with minor variations in style, the clothes that at some point in the 19th century had become the uniform of the well-dressed English gentleman: a top hat, a tail coat, a silk waistcoat, a cane.



monster  Sunday Apr 11 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
huh. OT, but I still remember that in my boarding school around 1970 (I was a day student) the girls had to "dress for dinner" every night in a really ugly uniform dress, hose, and pumps.

and what are canes for, then, if not to provide support? (confused)
beating the poor.

I wasn't kidding.

They could certainly be used to keep the riff-raff at bay in the street, and proably were in days past. I'd suspect that at some point the streets were rough, weapons and sticks were prohibited and this was a way of disguising a weapon as a legitimate accessory. Obviously the poor wouldn't be able to afford this luxury. Mostly just for show in the era of the picture, though.


xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Apr 11 03:44 PM

Good for keeping Artful Dodger from getting too close.



Shawnee123  Sunday Apr 11 08:29 PM

Of course it's fashion. That shit can make even a completely mobile peanut look good. There is nothing wrong with that damn peanut's legs.



squirell nutkin  Sunday Apr 11 09:26 PM

Please, ALL of you are going to tell me you were absent the day they taught self defense with a cane?

Please, it strains credulity.



HungLikeJesus  Sunday Apr 11 11:44 PM

One of the schools still teaching this today is Cane Masters. There you can get your own custom-designed defensive cane (http://www.canemasters.com/).



Pie  Monday Apr 12 08:51 AM

Men in India often carry canes eve to this day. Usually to beat away the beggars or the stray dogs. They must have picked up the habit from their British overlords.



Elspode  Tuesday Apr 13 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirell nutkin View Post
Please, ALL of you are going to tell me you were absent the day they taught self defense with a cane?

Please, it strains credulity.
Fine, but what do you do when someone attacks you with a banana?




chrisinhouston  Sunday Apr 18 11:57 AM

This is my grandfather's cane or walking stick. He was British and went out to China in 1901 to work in the Chinese Postal Service (one for the spoils for the European's after the Opium Wars as they forced their influence upon the Emperor and later the Emperess).

The cane is probably from when he first went there and wanted to look his best within the British society that he was a part of, so it is most likely over 100 years old. It is finished in black lacquer, has a silver tip on the bottom and his initials are monogrammed into the top in sterling silver. He only put the M and S but his full name was quite upper class, it was Melton Edwin Arthur Lionel Summers.

I think he used it rarely as it is in almost unused condition. It is something I treasure!

In later life he used a more everyday walking stick but it did have a silver top knob and I have memories of him walking with it in the 1960's before his health failed. One could tell he knew how to use it as he had a certain rhythm as he walked with the tip kicking up in the air in between every other step. Close to 50 years ago and I can still picture him in my mind as he walked.



HungLikeJesus  Sunday Apr 18 12:17 PM

That's excellent Chris. If I owned that I'd change my name to match the initials.



Cloud  Sunday Apr 18 12:34 PM

extremely cool, but I gotta say . . . a cane with the initials S and M? the mind conjures



Trilby  Sunday Apr 18 01:13 PM

I think those three regular boys are laughing at teh fancy boys. Who can play in a top hat?



Carruthers  Sunday Apr 18 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisinhouston View Post
This is my grandfather's cane or walking stick. He was British and went out to China in 1901......

....... his full name was quite upper class, it was Melton Edwin Arthur Lionel Summers.
I suspect I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know, but just in case................

As I have done some family history research of my own, I thought it would be worth Googling "Melton Edwin Arthur Lionel Summers" and came up with a couple of hits on Rootsweb. LINK

You are probably about to tell me that you made the above postings


chrisinhouston  Sunday Apr 18 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carruthers View Post
I suspect I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know, but just in case................

You are probably about to tell me that you made the above postings
No but I supplied some of the data to my distant cousin, Sam McMutry who lives in Australia where one branch of the Shaws of Ireland went to and he is the one who has posted the tree at the Rootsweb website. Much of the Shaw data can also be found a fairly rare book, "A History of the Clan Shaw".

By the way, my 3rd cousin twice removed was noted author and playwright George Bernard Shaw! The Internet has done wonders for homespun genealogists.


Carruthers  Sunday Apr 18 03:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisinhouston View Post

By the way, my 3rd cousin twice removed was noted author and playwright George Bernard Shaw! The Internet has done wonders for homespun genealogists.
When I looked at Rootsweb and saw 'An Irish Shaw Family' it crossed my mind that there might be GBS connection.
I, on the other hand, seem to be descended from long lines of horny handed sons of toil. Not the remotest claim to fame anywhere

Carruthers


chrisinhouston  Sunday Apr 18 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carruthers View Post
When I looked at Rootsweb and saw 'An Irish Shaw Family' it crossed my mind that there might be GBS connection.
Carruthers
Funny thing is, the main Shaw ancestor that my line descends from was Captain William Shaw who was given a grant of land in Ireland for saving General Ponsoby at the Battle of the Boyne. In reality, my ancestors who owned stately homes in Ireland were Protestant transplants from England or Scotland and were squatters on Irish land.


spudcon  Sunday Apr 18 06:38 PM

This is the hidden conversation.



xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Apr 18 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisinhouston View Post
Funny thing is, the main Shaw ancestor that my line descends from was Captain William Shaw who was given a grant of land in Ireland for saving General Ponsoby at the Battle of the Boyne. In reality, my ancestors who owned stately homes in Ireland were Protestant transplants from England or Scotland and were squatters on Irish land.
My Grandmother was a Shaw, so we're related... sorta... distantly.


Guess you'd rather I kept that quit, huh?


The Real Deal Neil  Saturday Nov 26 08:58 AM

Really surprised to see that this "Infamous" photo is not by Bert Hardy. Just reg with this Site, after coming across what I thought was a Bert Hardy photo.



Spexxvet  Saturday Nov 26 09:08 AM

Welcome, Neil



Sundae  Saturday Nov 26 10:03 AM

Hey Neil.
Stick around. We're not all about faux Hardy photos.



CaliforniaMama  Sunday Nov 27 09:46 AM

Undertoad:

Loved the poem!!



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