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   xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Dec 22 12:42 AM

Dec 22, 2010: Ramming Texas

This is the extreme, most photogenic, part of the reintroducing Bighorn Sheep in Texas.

Quote:
The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's capturing bighorn sheep with a helicopter and transporting them to the Big Bend State Park as part of a project ironically funded by hunting the sheep. Everything's bigger and better in Texas, even environmentalism.


Quote:
Hunting provides most of the money to restore bighorns and their habitat. Every year the Wild Sheep Foundation and Dallas Safari Club auction permits to hunt wild bighorn sheep in Texas, which sell for $70,000 to $115,000 per permit. Money raised goes to support research and habitat management for Texas bighorn restoration.
The last two years Texas has issued 16 sheep hunting permits annually. Permits depend on annual population surveys and are issued for state and private lands where harvestable rams are observed. A harvestable ram is an older, 7-to-12 year old male that has "done his thing" and is deemed surplus to the population.
A lot of people are unaware of the extra taxes tacked on to all hunting and fishing supplies, which are use for state and federal wildlife programs. Without those taxes from sportsmen, many environmental programs would disappear.

link
link


morethanpretty  Wednesday Dec 22 07:38 AM

As long as they don't get in the way of the ranchers...



Trilby  Wednesday Dec 22 09:00 AM

cover my eyes! I can't look!



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Dec 22 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanpretty View Post
As long as they don't get in the way of the ranchers...
Isn't that why they're moving them to the park?


Lamplighter  Wednesday Dec 22 10:21 AM

Quote:
Every year the Wild Sheep Foundation and Dallas Safari Club auction permits to hunt wild bighorn sheep in Texas, which sell for $70,000 to $115,000 per permit. Money raised goes to support research and habitat management for Texas bighorn restoration
This should be moved to the the "favorite oxymoron" thread


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Dec 22 10:29 AM

Why is that? 40 years ago the sheep had been decimated. Now, through this program, they are back to 2/3 of the original levels.



Coign  Wednesday Dec 22 10:37 AM

Hunters have traditionally been the biggest supporters of animal habitats. We know, if you don't take care of the cute little bambis in the woods, you will not get to go out and shoot them to make delicious, delicious venison sausage.

It is farmers that usually hate the wildlife messing up their lands. (If that farmer is not a hunter. But in Minnesota, most farmers are hunters and so understand animal conservation too.)



Lamplighter  Wednesday Dec 22 10:49 AM

I guess they didn't have permit auctions back then

But I do like the names of the two groups...
"The WILD Sheep Foundation" and the "Dallas SAFARI Club"
They conjure up such romantic images.

I can just see myself prowling through the skyscrapers of Dallas,
spotting the animals on ledges with my $1K Leupold scope,
and after the kill, mounting the beast on the wall of my den.
Oh, there's Mrs Palin and her caribou on TV

Ah, such sweet memories of "the hunt"



TheMercenary  Wednesday Dec 22 11:27 AM

So I get from your post Lamplighter that you are adverse to hunting rights and don't support the environmentalism that is conducted through hunting taxes, license plates, and other things. You have sufficiently demonized a right to hunt.

I think they are great programs. Our hunting programs in GA support tons of wildlife conservation programs, many that have little if anything to do with hunting, and I am glad to do it. I also support the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.

Here is an example of some of their work.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/NewsReleases/



morethanpretty  Wednesday Dec 22 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Isn't that why they're moving them to the park?
You expect that they'll stay in the park? Animals don't often understand our boundaries, and are usually given less room than they really need/want.

I think Lamp is saying the oxymoron is that the funding from hunting wouldn't even be needed if the animals hadn't been over-hunted in the first place.


Lamplighter  Wednesday Dec 22 12:45 PM

Come on Merc, lighten up.
Do you really think that living in Oregon and being married
to a girl from Montana, I would demonize the "right to hunt" ?

I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
If you follow the news about "trophy" hunts you already understand what I mean.

Public hunting of bighorn does occur in very limited numbers and the chance for a hunt is highly prized.
[Texas] Parks and Wildife issued a total of 15 permits in 2008-09,
11 of which went to private landowners near wildlife management areas.
Of the remaining four permits, one Elephant Mountain permit was donated to a
Wild Sheep Foundation auction and brought $70,000;
one was a part of the Texas Grand Slam drawing and two were public hunter drawings.

And the results are....

As the lucky winner of this year's Big Time Texas Hunts crown jewel, the Texas Grand Slam hunt package,
Garcia receives four separate guided hunts for Texas' most prized big game animals
- desert bighorn sheep, white-tailed deer, pronghorn antelope and mule deer.

All told, hunters bought 64,759 Big Time Texas Hunt entries during this year's sales period through the Oct. 15 deadline.
This generated about $620,000 in gross revenue to support wildlife research, habitat management and public hunting.



Sundae  Wednesday Dec 22 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
Come on Merc, lighten up.
Do you really think that living in Oregon and being married
to a girl from Montana, I would demonize the "right to hunt" ?
I'm gathering information on you, post by post...


morethanpretty  Wednesday Dec 22 12:56 PM

I'm against hunting unless you're going to eat/sell the meat.



morethanpretty  Wednesday Dec 22 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae Girl View Post
I'm gathering information on you, post by post...
keeping a "stalker diary"?


Diaphone Jim  Wednesday Dec 22 01:01 PM

I'll bet those orange bags had lots of little brown things to empty out.
Do you suppose they gave them the choice of scanning or patting down before the flight?



TheMercenary  Wednesday Dec 22 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanpretty View Post
... if the animals hadn't been over-hunted in the first place.
Total bullshit. Back up your statements.


TheMercenary  Wednesday Dec 22 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
Come on Merc, lighten up.
Do you really think that living in Oregon and being married
to a girl from Montana, I would demonize the "right to hunt" ?
Yep. You just did it.

Quote:
I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
If you follow the news about "trophy" hunts you already understand what I mean.
Oh, I see, back to the liberal BS of class warfare. Those who have vs those who have not. Typical eh?


TheMercenary  Wednesday Dec 22 09:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
This generated about $620,000 in gross revenue to support wildlife research, habitat management and public hunting.
OMG How terrible!

You frigging bleeding hearts are all about the Gooberment supporting your pet projects. See I am more on the side of the Gooberment would never support the conservation projects we support. So you want to take my tax dollars to support your little wart worm in the desert of Oregon, and we want to save the Elk with private dollars.


kerosene  Wednesday Dec 22 10:06 PM

I don't think I have met anyone who hunts, but not for the meat and most of the time also the hide. I suppose those kinds of people probably exist, but I don't see the point.

I think the program in the OP sounds great.



Lamplighter  Wednesday Dec 22 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
Total bullshit. Back up your statements.
From the same link I posted above.
Quote:
Bighorn are native to the state but were extirpated in Texas by the early 1960s.
Texas Parks and Wildlife has dedicated decades toward their careful reintroduction to state lands.
About 1,500 now populate the Sierra Diablo, Elephant Mountain and Black Gap wildlife management areas.
Parks officials aim to place bighorn at Big Bend Ranch within the next several years, said Boruff.
But what is your point ?


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Dec 22 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanpretty View Post
You expect that they'll stay in the park? Animals don't often understand our boundaries, and are usually given less room than they really need/want.

I think Lamp is saying the oxymoron is that the funding from hunting wouldn't even be needed if the animals hadn't been over-hunted in the first place.
From what I've read, one big problem was diseases they caught from contact with livestock. Is that a euphemism for shot by ranchers? I can't see there ever being enough Bighorns to eat much, and they wouldn't threaten anything, other than maybe chickens.

Quote:
In the late 1800s there were perhaps up to 1,500 sheep in the rugged mountains of Trans-Pecos Texas. However, due mainly to unregulated hunting and diseases from domestic and exotic livestock, Texas bighorn numbers dwindled to about 500 in 1903 and by the 1960s they were gone.



ZenGum  Wednesday Dec 22 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post



Helicopter tea-bagging!


Griff  Thursday Dec 23 09:17 AM

PA has a similar situation when it comes to Elk hunting but has a lottery system where everyone pays a small fee to enter and a limited but growing number of permits are handed out. They have had great success rebuilding the elk herd with the money raised. The Game Commission has helped bring back a lot of wildlife, beyond game animals, in PA using hunting generated dollars. They also avoid the Texas scene where the richest guy in the room always gets the hunt. That seems like a recipe to build resentment and keep hunting a marginal activity.

Giving an economic value to wildlife may offend some sensibilities but in a place like PA with a lot of private land it helps to have a lot of stake-holders. It isn't much different from what the Costa Rican's have done with eco-tourism.



Phage0070  Thursday Dec 30 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
So we shouldn't have any extra taxes or fees for hunting licenses and hunting supplies so that everyone can afford it, right?


Lamplighter  Thursday Dec 30 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phage0070 View Post
So we shouldn't have any extra taxes or fees for hunting licenses and hunting supplies so that everyone can afford it, right?
Hi Phage,
Hunters and fishermen do pay taxes and fees, etc., and I have no problem with that. I pay my fair share too.
But hypocrisy comes in when you look at the tiny numbers of "common folk" who get the permits for rare or trophy game.
It's very similar here in Oregon, as in Texas, Montana, Idaho, etc.

Here is the rest of that same quote... I just added the bold type

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
<snip>

I do have a problem with hypocrisy when it's essentially only the landed-gentry
and the wealthy that can afford the "right".
If you follow the news about "trophy" hunts you already understand what I mean.

Public hunting of bighorn does occur in very limited numbers and the chance for a hunt is highly prized.
[Texas] Parks and Wildife issued a total of 15 permits in 2008-09,
11 of which went to private landowners near wildlife management areas.
Of the remaining four permits, one Elephant Mountain permit was donated to a
Wild Sheep Foundation auction and brought $70,000;

one was a part of the Texas Grand Slam drawing and two were public hunter drawings.

And the results are....

As the lucky winner of this year's Big Time Texas Hunts crown jewel, the Texas Grand Slam hunt package,
Garcia receives four separate guided hunts for Texas' most prized big game animals
- desert bighorn sheep, white-tailed deer, pronghorn antelope and mule deer.

All told, hunters bought 64,759 Big Time Texas Hunt entries during this year's sales period through the Oct. 15 deadline.
This generated about $620,000 in gross revenue to support wildlife research, habitat management and public hunting.



TheMercenary  Thursday Dec 30 06:55 PM

None of that reflects the amount of money donated to conservation asshole.....



morethanpretty  Thursday Dec 30 07:43 PM

@bruce and merc:

Quote:
While herds were probably never extremely large, unregulated hunting and exposure to disease from contact with domestic sheep drastically reduced their numbers soon after white man began settling in West Texas.
Over-hunting played its part too.

There are many reasons for ranchers to hunt them, sure they're not a real danger to their livestock, but they do eat the grass/ect that they want to use for their own animals. I've never tried sheep, but it might taste good, and then you get the added bonus of those trophy horns. They could like destroy fences the ranchers put up, ect.

Link


Elspode  Thursday Dec 30 09:36 PM

They could sell the rights to shoot at them as they were dropped from the slings for an extra $50k. I mean, hey...when do you get a chance to shoot a flying bighorn?



Clodfobble  Thursday Dec 30 11:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by morethanpretty
I've never tried sheep, but it might taste good,
Lamb is fantastic. Coincidentally, we just had some tonight. Do you still call it lamb if the animal is full-grown when you slaughter it? Or is that what mutton is?


morethanpretty  Friday Dec 31 08:20 AM

from wiki:
The meat of an animal in its first year is lamb; that of an older sheep is hogget and later mutton.



Sundae  Friday Dec 31 09:30 AM

Interesting - never heard of hogget.
Over here we almost always eat lamb, unless you are eating in an Indian restaurant; the longer cooking times used in marinated recipes mean mutton can be used. It comes under the term gosht, which can mean lamb, mutton or even beef.



xoxoxoBruce  Friday Dec 31 11:28 AM

I've never heard of hogget either.
But then we don't cotton to them stinkin' sheep punchers and their root pullin' sheep, 'round these parts anyway.



Sundae  Friday Dec 31 03:17 PM

We get most of our sheeps from Wales or from New Zealand.
They come with a nice salty basting, if you know what I mean...



Lamplighter  Tuesday Apr 3 10:03 PM

Seattlepi.com
ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press
Tuesday, April 3, 2012

Rule restricts hunting of rare exotic antelopes

Quote:
FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — For years, hundreds of Texas ranchers have made big money on exotic antelopes,
with hunters paying up to $10,000 to bag just one dama gazelle, a rare animal with short horns curving outward.

Attachment 38184

Starting Wednesday, however, the U.S. government will stop allowing anyone to hunt the dama gazelle
or two other exotic antelopes native to Africa, the addax and the scimitar-horned oryx
— unless ranchers obtain a permit.

The move to give the animals full protection under the federal Endangered Species Act
is being praised by animal-rights groups that abhor such hunts
and has upset the ranchers whose efforts have led to a rise in the numbers of those exotic animals.
The ranchers say they won't be able to afford the upkeep for their antelopes
— but they also can't legally kill the entire herds or release them.
<snip>
.


Coign  Wednesday Apr 4 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
The ranchers say they won't be able to afford the upkeep for their antelopes
— but they also can't legally kill the entire herds or release them.
So is the answer then that since the Ranchers can't afford to do upkeep, they just let them starve? Then the animals "die off on their own"?

I hate when hippies go after hunters. Being originally from Minnesota I can tell you with certainty two facts. Minnesota hunters are the BEST animal conservationists. And from knowing loggers that went to school with me, if you love trees, buy paper and use wood. Loggers in Minnesota plant more trees then they cut down.


Aliantha  Wednesday Apr 4 05:34 PM

I don't understand why a country foreign to an animal would think it should give the animal protection. It seems a bit odd.

Over here, most introduced species are hunted all year round in an effort (failing) to eradicate introduced animals. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any introduced species which are protected under Australian law.



Aliantha  Wednesday Apr 4 05:35 PM

Oh, and I'm still dumbfounded that mtp has never tried lamb or mutton! That was two years ago though. I wonder if things have changed...



xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Apr 8 11:46 AM

It's fucking stupid, brought to you by asshole vegans.



Aliantha  Sunday Apr 8 07:41 PM

We do have deer here which are protected from hunting in that there is a bag limit of two, but they're still classed as a Class 3 pest which means you can't feed them or encourage them, but as a land holder you're not required to eliminate them by law.



Sundae  Monday Apr 9 03:24 AM

I understand there was another large volunteer cane toad cull just this week.
Although from what I gather that's another species whose eradication is pretty much year round.



Aliantha  Monday Apr 9 04:52 AM

They're worst in the summer, and you can go out and kill 20 or 30 in an hour or so without too much trouble if you live in the northern states. They tend to hibernate a bit in the winter when you get a bit south, but they're still around if you look a bit harder. They're easy to find all year round right up north though. They're a menace and should be eliminated.



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