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   Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 10:23 AM

April 25th, 2011 Grass Fed ?




The steak is represented as grass fed and was sold by Sonrise Beef, one of the largest producers of grass fed beef in southern California. Any person, knowledgeable about beef, will immediately recognize the probability is almost 99% that this is grain fed beef.

LINK



Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 10:36 AM

SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE

PART III --- THE FAMILY FARMER

Urban life can be stressful. Competition is intense. Large densities of people are crammed into small spaces and the interaction results in frequent conflict. Many of those residents have roots in rural America or rural whatever country you can name. Many of those roots are generations back but recollections of the past are buried in the folklore passed from generation to generation. Sometimes folklore turns into myth and myth into an idealized vision of how things ought to be. This nostalgia and longing for simpler times has given forth to the rebirth of the idea of OLD MACDONALD’S FARM where the cows in the meadow and the sheep are in the corn.



The real life extension of OLD MACDONALD’S FARM is today’s farmers market. No one would question the premise that fresher produce tastes better or that locally raised produce rushed to market is preferred mode as advocated by the Localvores. The urban consumer’s need for food with a story behind it, created such a marketing opportunity that it brought forth all the scams found in a local carnival. Middlemen moved into the fray and all of a sudden you had an onslaught of people representing themselves as family farmers and their products as locally grown and organic. Because the venue would change and the instant shops would come and go, regulation was difficult. Misrepresentation was rampant.



The tools of the trade are fairly simple and limited. The seller of food at the farmer’s market must:

1. Pretend to be a family farmer to the consumer whatever that means.

2. Subscribe to notion that the foods that are sold are natural or organic whatever that means. The bonafides are frequently displayed on the tables in front of the stall in the form of acceptable literature and billboards.

3. Charge at least twice as much as the food sells for at the local grocery.

A visit by this reporter to a farmer’s market in La Jolla, California illustrates the point in this photo.



Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 10:37 AM

So what is a family farmer? The answer is straightforward. The 200,000 families that produce 85% of the nation’s food are family farmers. Only 2% of our food is produced by corporations. Family farms come in all sizes. In the mind of urban writers, exactly when does a family farmer become a factory farmer? No one knows or can say, but chances are good that if your size is larger than a few acres, you are at risk of being called a factory farmer.



“Factory Farmer” as a descriptive term is meaningless. The processes used in production don’t vary a lot between sizes of farms. Certainly size does matter. Larger operations offer economies of scale and this is the feature of American agriculture that has pushed us to the forefront of efficiency in the world. Spreading the cost of overhead and management over 1000 acres of cropland is more efficient than over 100 acres. Looking after 1000 cows is more efficient that 100 cows. Both manpower and equipment are used more efficiently. Larger producers got to be larger because they are more efficient. A useful exercise for those who chose to label operations as factory farms would be to edit their articles or books to substitute “efficient” for “factory” in front of every farmer entry in the article or book.



The myth of the small family farm as the sole custodian of a caring, sensitive food provider is out of touch with reality. Many small farms are tended by owners with a primary job elsewhere. They are small tracts outside of town where the owner runs a few livestock or farms a few acres in their spare time. Other small farms are owned by rich people who have no understanding of production practices and often don’t really care. They are interested in a retreat and the tending to the crops whether plant or animal is never a priority.



At the core of production agriculture are the thousands of American farmers who make their living farming livestock and crops every day. They vary in size but share one common concern – the health and sustainability of the crops they produce –whether plant or animal. They fight the elements, the weather, the markets, and daily crisises of production agriculture every day of the year because it’s in their blood. They spend very little time and lose very little sleep worrying about whether they are a family farmer or a factory farmer.



HungLikeJesus  Monday Apr 25 11:04 AM

I'm at work so haven't followed the link. Is this something that you've written or is it from an article written by someone else?



Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 02:30 PM

I guess I could have written it but my family farming keeps me too busy. This is a page called the cattle report.



wolf  Monday Apr 25 03:11 PM

I am a meat-eater, but not terribly meat-knowledgeable. What makes it obvious that that chunk o' meat is grain fed? Has it to do with the amount of fat in the meat? Is that what indicates that this beef is from a cow that spent it's time just standing around a feedlot waiting for dinner rather than browsing?



lpe397  Monday Apr 25 04:52 PM

The extensive marbling of fat is a clear indicator that this is corn fed beef.



wolf  Monday Apr 25 04:56 PM

Then I know more about meat than I thought.



Spexxvet  Monday Apr 25 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf View Post
Then I know more about meat than I thought.
Except that you eat steers and not queers cows


Diaphone Jim  Monday Apr 25 06:38 PM

"Higher" grades of beef are still considered to be the most marbled with fat.
Commercial beef comes pretty much equally from males (steers and bulls) and females (heifers and cows).



wolf  Monday Apr 25 06:41 PM

I am from the suburbs. I don't look at the undercarriage before I eat it.



Aliantha  Monday Apr 25 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post



The steak is represented as grass fed and was sold by Sonrise Beef, one of the largest producers of grass fed beef in southern California. Any person, knowledgeable about beef, will immediately recognize the probability is almost 99% that this is grain fed beef.

LINK
It can also depend on the breed of the stock and the quality of the green feed. Maybe it was a lazy cow too. lol

Yeah I'd look at that and say grain fed, but there are some breeds that produce more marbling naturally, particularly in a nice rib fillet.

eta: of course, you know of all of this already Nirvana, so I'm not trying to refute what you're saying. I was just thinking about Wagyu or Kobe beef for instance, which is high in marbling even when grass fed.


Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
Except that you eat steers and not queers cows
If you are eating at fast food restaurants or buying frozen patties you are eating mostly cull dairy cows. If there is fat and marbling that is grain fed. Grass fed beef is tough and stringy. Very lean no fat.


footfootfoot  Monday Apr 25 08:54 PM

I know a few farmers here who grass feed and a couple who grass finish. I think the latter is a marketing gimmick, but I don't know. The quality of the grass fed beef up here is all over the map flavor and texture-wise, but yeah, generally lean.

Now the pigs, that's another matter...



monster  Monday Apr 25 09:24 PM




Nirvana  Monday Apr 25 09:56 PM

I like ground beef that will cook without having to drain fat but it needs some fat to taste good. Grass fed generally takes longer to finish so it more expensive for less product. I think its amusing that they can command higher prices for a mediocre product.



footfootfoot  Monday Apr 25 10:39 PM

Gullible isn't in the locavore dictionary



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Apr 26 03:18 AM

That steak looks more like they were smoking the grass, and eating fritos.



sandypossum  Tuesday Apr 26 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
Grass fed beef is tough and stringy. Very lean no fat.
We raise a few steers for our own beef here in South Gippsland (Australia) and they are entirely grass fed from the time they are weaned. I can assure you that the meat is not at all tough or stringy! Most supermarket beef in Australia is grain finished, and I was once told by a local beef farmer that it is to make the fat whiter, as this is what the market wants. Our home grown beef is certainly as tasty and tender as anything I have bought from a supermarket, or even from up-market butchers and restaurants, and our dinner guests agree.


Aliantha  Tuesday Apr 26 08:08 PM

Yeah, my dad has a hereford cow that he gets AI'd each year then slaughters the calf at about 12 months, just before the new calf is born. It's all grass fed and I swear it's as tender and tasty as you'll find in any shop and he doesn't grain feed either. He does feed the cow grain when she's pregnant and still has a calf on the teat, but he loves his 'rissole' (what he named her as a weaner before he decided to breed her instead), so she gets a bit sooked up.



Nirvana  Tuesday Apr 26 08:44 PM

I have had Australian grass fed beef my opinion stands... Have you had prime American beef?



HungLikeJesus  Tuesday Apr 26 08:52 PM

Sorry, I'm married.



Aliantha  Tuesday Apr 26 08:55 PM

lol...it's not a competition. I like red meat. I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't import US beef at the moment due to the mad cow scare a while back though.

I had a Wagyu steak last week and while it was very tender, it wasn't particularly flavoursome. I find a steak that just tastes like fat to be avoiding the issue of a good steak to be honest.

What do you think the difference between Australian grass fed and US grass fed would be?

My opinion is that there isn't much difference if that's the criteria you're looking at. I think it has a lot more to do with the breed than the feed. You could feed brahaman or santa on grain their whole life and they'd never be as tender as wagyu or kobe, but I personally love the flavour of hereford beef, and I find the texture of the rib and eye fillet to be quite tender regardless of how it's 'topped off'. eta: provided of course that it's cooked well. I think that also has a lot to do with how a cut of meat will taste. Some cuts simply can't take a lot of cooking, and some can.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 27 12:01 AM

Every single incidence of mad cow in the US [there were 2] was traced back to DAIRY cattle that came from Canada and Mexico.

Grass fed beef is a marketing ploy in the US. Grass fed beef cannot be graded choice or prime. It does not taste good.

Angus beef is the only beef proven to have a "tenderness gene" [ I don't raise purebreds.] I raise club calves, they are the standard for the beef industry they are composite cattle [ crossbreeds] so I don't agree with your breed theory from that stand point. You are however comparing bos tarsus to bos indicus and the cattle you speak of are a need to have in certain climates because of weather conditions and insects. The cattle raised in hotter climates are not the primary source of prime beef in the US unless they are crossbred.



Clodfobble  Wednesday Apr 27 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana
Grass fed beef is a marketing ploy in the US. Grass fed beef cannot be graded choice or prime. It does not taste good.
I don't know anyone who chooses to eat grass-fed beef because it tastes better (and I know a lot of them.) That's not the point of grass-fed beef. Personally, I've found that the steak cuts are indeed tougher, but I actually prefer the flavor. It's beefier, is the only way I can describe it. But still, that's not why we eat it.


glatt  Wednesday Apr 27 09:51 AM

So what's the deal with kobe beef? I know it's expensive and desirable to some people. Why isn't there more kobe beef raised in the US? Do they not do well here?



footfootfoot  Wednesday Apr 27 10:01 AM

I'm not sure if it is like champagne vs sparkling wine in terms of... I can't remember the word. I'm sure if it a Japanese invention it is probably loaded with terroir mystique and incredibly labor intensive. I read a Nat. Geo. article and they described the beefers as gettting massages daily and rations of beer. I've also read that it is nearly impossible to eat more than a few ounces of good Kobe beef in a sitting as it is so rich.

I doubt I'd turn it down, but I wouldn't go out of my way to try it.



glatt  Wednesday Apr 27 10:09 AM

So it's not just another breed of beef? It's about the method of raising them?



Clodfobble  Wednesday Apr 27 10:22 AM

My understanding is that it's all originally based on the fact that there's just not enough land space to realistically raise cattle in Japan. So the few cows they did have were a luxury, and the ranchers played that angle as best as they could.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 27 10:26 AM

I don't know any American women that would stand around all day massaging steers and spitting beer on them. [yah they really spit beer on them]



footfootfoot  Wednesday Apr 27 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
I don't know any American women that would stand around all day massaging steers and spitting beer on them. [yah they really spit beer on them]
So, you lost touch with former cow orkers from your earlier career?



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 27 11:45 AM

.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 27 12:54 PM

BTW we did not spit beer on the patrons we poured champagne off... well use your imagination



sullage  Tuesday May 3 08:39 AM

per wikipedia: "Cereals, grains, or cereal grains are grasses..."

all grains are grasses.



Coign  Tuesday Apr 17 10:39 AM

Interesting article a friend sent me reminded me of this IotD. Read how you have never, and most likely never will, eat Kobe beef even though people are telling you that you should give them lots of money for it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolm...kobe-beef-lie/



ZenGum  Thursday Apr 19 08:33 PM

A year or two back there was a foot-and-mouth outbreak, and once the culling stopped, there were exactly five Kobe bulls left.

In a few years time, you'll be able to recognise Kobe beef by the thick eyeglasses and funny teeth.



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Apr 21 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coign View Post
Interesting article a friend sent me reminded me of this IotD. Read how you have never, and most likely never will, eat Kobe beef even though people are telling you that you should give them lots of money for it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolm...kobe-beef-lie/
While interesting, I think he gets a little carried away with his indignation.
I see people trying to be pretentious by buying what other people say is good, and get snookered because they don't know shit. Anyone stupid enough to think a bottle labeled Champagne can only come from France, should be drinking Ripple.


Sundae  Saturday Apr 21 04:28 PM

Quote:
I don't know any American women that would stand around all day massaging steers and spitting beer on them. [yah they really spit beer on them]
Really?
American women don't scrub shit out of toilets for a minimum wage?
British women do.

Massaging cows and spitting beer would be a step up methinks.

ETA - didn't read the thread thoroughly.
Came very late to the beef party.

Also I suspect that the lack of reported BSE cases in America came from poor reporting.


Aliantha  Saturday Apr 21 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGum View Post
A year or two back there was a foot-and-mouth outbreak, and once the culling stopped, there were exactly five Kobe bulls left.

In a few years time, you'll be able to recognise Kobe beef by the thick eyeglasses and funny teeth.
I lol'd.


xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Apr 21 06:53 PM

Hmmm...



Aliantha  Saturday Apr 21 07:01 PM

Wow that pic sure has evolved. lol



ZenGum  Sunday Apr 22 08:59 AM

Oops, I was joking about bovine inbreeding, not crossbreeding.



Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae View Post

Also I suspect that the lack of reported BSE cases in America came from poor reporting.
No No Beef in Europe is generally around 3-5 years old before its butchered because many are not grain fed so they take years to be table ready. Beef in the USA is 24months at the most with the exception of Holstein butcher cows and bulls and other breeding beef animals that are generally used for fast food, luncheon meats and hot dogs. Impossible for BSE to happen in an animal that is less than 3 years of age. So there was no under reporting. Also cattle in the USA are not fed the bone meal that was widely used in other European countries.


Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 10:39 AM

Just to add the only human cases of BSE in the USA or {Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease] were traced to meat products that originated in other countries.



Dagney  Sunday Apr 22 11:58 AM

We've taken to purchasing our meat products (beef, chicken, lamb, etc) from local farmers only. The farm we use most frequently is a grass fed operation - their beef animals recieve no corn 'enhancements' to their diet during their growing phase. It's all grass/grain feed. We've found that it's better tasting than corn fed cows, it doesn't have as much fat in it (which is a plus for us), and has more of a 'beefy' flavor - so we actually end up eating less of it.

I believe it was in one of Pollan's books that I read about how CAFO cows (confined agriculture feeding operations), which are fed corn to 'finish' them, or get them to optimum weight quickly before slaughter, actually were often sick - because the anatomy of a cow is not designed to process corn - which also explains why so many 'commercial' beef products come with the extra added antibiotics (which causes a whole other issue).

I don't think that grass fed is a 'marketing ploy'. I think it's the growth of a market for people who are starting to see exactly what 'industrial food' is doing, and how unhealthy it truly is.



Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 12:53 PM

Frankly I don't buy beef at the super market because it tastes awful. Our beef is not exclusively corn fed and we are a small herd, no hormones or antibiotics here. Grass fed has no where near the flavor of beef with proper (corn fed) marbling. Grass fed is a marketing ploy and you pay a premium for a cheaper way to raise cattle. They also have to be fed longer.

The real problem with beef is that its expensive, politicians think its better to use corn for making ethanol which makes the price of beef skyrocket because subsides are paid to ethanol producers which is stupid when one realizes that saw grass is a better CHEAPER alternative.

What kind of feed grains are they feeding if they don't use corn? Sorghum? Barley? Wheat?



Dagney  Sunday Apr 22 01:59 PM

There is a HUGE difference between cheap beef, and GOOD beef. Cheap beef = pink slime - good beef - you pay more, consume less, because it's more 'beefy'.

I can guarantee you that corn is not the biologically 'proper' way to feed cows - if it was, cows would not be ruminants, needing 4 stomachs to digest the grass that they would prefer to eat. Marbling is only considered the 'proper' way beef should be eaten because of marketing. Grass fed cows have to be fed longer because they don't put on huge quantities of weight quickly, as do corn fed cows - which results in the marbling in the meat - they can't use the extra caloric input, so it results in fatty marbling through the muscle tissue.

I've sent an email to my farmer to find out what they use to feed their cattle. One good thing about knowing the farmer, is that I have no problem asking them questions, or showing up at their farm. (Which we do frequently).



Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 02:50 PM

Dagney I am not disagreeing with what you do to eat beef. The person feeding out the beef you are eating is still using carbohydrates,[barley, sorghum, wheat, soy bean meal/protein} if your farmer is feeding any of these you will still have marbling. Corn in one form or another is eaten by every living thing on this planet.

A cow does not have 4 stomachs it has one with 4 compartments. As far as corn not being the proper way to feed cows all of the major feedlots feed, along with their corn,> silage , hay or other roughage including grass. A cow cannot survive on corn alone. But some AR activists take this bit of information and make it their mantra "Corn is bad" If you put corn in front of a cow and grass most will go for the corn first. I am sure there is an exception but that is not a rule.

To meet the demand of the consumer is why there are commercial feedlots. The smarter people like you know that beef tastes better when its a local farmer just like local grown veggies taste better.

Marbling is better/proper because it makes the meat tastier and more tender. Excessive marbling is undesirable. The hamburger I eat/raise can be cooked with no excess fat to drain. If some like their steak tough and stringy then pure grass fed is the way to go.



Dagney  Sunday Apr 22 03:31 PM

We'll just have to agree to disagree - just because most major feedlots feed their cows corn, doesn't mean they should.

I believe corn IS bad - it's a monolithic monoculture that is slowly destroying farms and farmers in this country.

Cows prefer grass. CAFO cows eat corn, because they're standing knee deep in mud and manure, with no access to green grass. And my grass fed steaks, do not get tough and stringy. Guaranteed - you're invited to join us for dinner if you'd like to put that to the test. Like anything else - you need to know how to cook what you're cooking.



Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 06:48 PM

Your "grass fed steaks" are not tough and stringy because you admitted that they are not really all grass fed. They get grains as well just not corn.

If you are implying I don't know how to cook, you don't know me. I do however know the beef industry and I do agree with you on certain points. Eliminating corn entirely from a cow's diet is not necessary or practical for most small producers. The "Organic beef grass fed only" is a way to make beef taste so bad that the AR activists win the war on anyone owning or raising animals for food. You obviously do not own cows, know anything about feed management or you would know cows prefer corn and would if left to their own devices founder themselves to death eating it above anything else.

BTW I would be known as a "free range organic beef producer." My cows spend their days roaming 50 acres of wooded pasture. I still have to supplement their feed with shucklage/silage or they would starve to death and then I would be one of those animal abusers.

Fabulous reading

The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals

http://www.american.com/archive/2009...-intellectuals



Dagney  Sunday Apr 22 10:49 PM

Like I said, we're going to agree to disagree.



Nirvana  Sunday Apr 22 11:23 PM

I was not disagreeing with you. I was providing facts to offset your fiction.



classicman  Monday Apr 23 01:25 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing.



ZenGum  Monday Apr 23 01:36 AM

Look, so long as you don't feed your cows on the diseased brains of other cows, I'm cool with it, okay?



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Apr 23 03:44 AM

Cows are like kids, left to their own devices they'll eat everything they shouldn't. Thank god they don't have credit cards.



SPUCK  Monday Apr 23 07:18 AM

Braaaaaaaaaainssss




Actually I'd never eat any brains. Yuk!



BigV  Monday Apr 23 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
snip--
politicians think its better to use corn for making ethanol which makes the price of beef skyrocket because subsides are paid to ethanol producers which is stupid when one realizes that saw grass is a better CHEAPER alternative.

--snip
those two sources of ethanol have other differences besides your "CHEAPER" claim that are substantial. getting ethanol from corn (sugar) is vastly easier than getting ethanol from sawgrass (cellulose). sawgrass might be cheaper to raise (not might--IS), but turning it into fuel is way, way more complicated.


glatt  Wednesday Apr 25 09:55 AM

And they just found another case of BSE in a cow in the USA. But really, everything is fine. Don't worry.

They are randomly testing only something like one out of every 12,000 bovines, the last I was able to confirm. And yet they keep turning up every couple of years.

It will be very interesting to see how old this dairy cow was. If it was born in the US after 1997, when it became illegal to grind up one cow and feed it to another cow, then that's going to be very bad news for the US beef industry. It would mean that the 1997 rules aren't working.

I think the only way to be sure that US beef is safe is to test more. When you only test 1 in 12,000 animals, you don't know jack.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 25 12:42 PM

And here again we are talking about a dairy cow with BSE not a beef cow. It does not follow the food chain in the same way as what you typically have on your plate. I am waiting to see the origin of this cow. The type of BSE it had was NOT transmissible from animal to animal and not to humans. {atypical] It was a cow taken to a rendering plant where typically that is made into fertilizer and dog food.

This is the first line of your article: {Health officials say the diseased cow never entered the human food chain and U.S. dairy and beef products are safe. It is the first confirmed case in the U.S. since 2006.}

I always find it annoying that those that sit behind a desk with no college education in agriculture or practical experience in agriculture can say the sky is falling. This article CLEARLY explains that the system in place is working.

Officials believe it is a rare spontaneous case and not linked to contaminated food. So no it was not fed other cows.

It seems like all it takes is one or two pencil pushers to create mass delusion. You are more likely to die of a heart attack eating too much beef than you are to get mad cow disease....

Most cattle slaughtered are 24 months old and under it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to have BSE. The disease has at least a 5-7 year incubation. That's why more are not tested. They only test OLD and sick appearing animals and most OLD and sick animals are in fertilizer.



infinite monkey  Wednesday Apr 25 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
~snip~ I am waiting to see the origin of this cow. ~snip~
When a mommy cow and a daddy cow love each other verrrry much...

(Couldn't resist.)

Quote:
~snip~You are more likely to die of a heart attack eating too much beef than you are to get mad cow disease....~snip~
Ain't that the truth!

http://www.13wham.com/guides/health/...Pr32YwSIg.cspx


glatt  Wednesday Apr 25 01:01 PM

Yes. And those officials aren't saying that to protect the US beef industry.

When you only test less than a hundredth of one percent of the animals, you can't credibly say anything about the safety of the US bovine population.

How crazy is it that they are finding any infected cows? I mean, when you test as little as they do, you would expect them to find nothing. But they keep popping up! How many more cases are out there that they never find?



classicman  Wednesday Apr 25 01:06 PM

I understand the justation period in humans is 10 - 15 YEARS.
I guess we'll know more then. Then again if the Mayans are right there is nothing to worry about.



infinite monkey  Wednesday Apr 25 01:22 PM

I'm sorry. Really. I am.

Justation? Is that like when someone has a baby with Justin Bieber?




infinite monkey  Wednesday Apr 25 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
I understand the justation period in humans is 10 - 15 YEARS.
I guess we'll know more then. Then again if the Mayans are right there is nothing to worry about.
I'm sorry. Really. I am.

Justation? Is that like when someone has a baby with Justin Bieber?


glatt  Wednesday Apr 25 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
Most cattle slaughtered are 24 months old and under it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to have BSE. The disease has at least a 5-7 year incubation. That's why more are not tested. They only test OLD and sick appearing animals and most OLD and sick animals are in fertilizer.
You edited your post, so I'll respond to it. I believe every word of this. Can't argue with it at all. It's true. But notice that you said "most" and not "all." Dairy cows are typically slaughtered at much older ages, and they are often turned into hamburger and fed to people. And while it's true that the animals that they test are mostly old and sick, just because an animal is old or sick doesn't mean it gets tested. They don't do enough testing for that to happen. And while sick downer cows don't enter the human food supply, old dairy cows that can still stand up often enter the human food supply.

Nirvana, I'm what you would call a customer. I love beef. And I'm telling you that I don't eat beef any more because there are too many loopholes for BSE to make it into the human food supply. I was pleased that the rules changed in 1997 to make things safer, and odds are that any beef I eat will be just fine. But there is no guarantee. This newly discovered cow is proof that a BSE contaminated cow can still make it into the human food supply. If this dairy cow wasn't quite so far gone that it was a downer cow, it would have been slaughtered and ground into hamburger. Fortunately that didn't happen. The farmer didn't decide to send it off to the rendering facility until after it got sick. But if he decided just a month earlier, when symptoms hadn't shown up yet, then that cow would be in somebody's stomach.

It's been 15 years since the laws changed, and BSE shouldn't be showing up any more. I really want to know how old that most recent cow was. If it was 16 years old, then everything is cool. But if it was 3 years old, then we have a problem, and we need to identify how it got infected so it won't happen again.


Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 25 01:50 PM

Glatt you really should read the articles you post. The cow was affected with ATYPICAL BSE a form that occurs spontaneously in cows and human beings but is not the type that can be infectious to animals or humans. It is not a zoonose.

"The USDA tests about 40,000 cows a year."

This cow was not a downer cow it was DEAD.
On any given day a dairy has three or four carcasses of cows that may have died from old age. Rendering companies, commonly known as "fat and bone collection," pick them up for processing into commercial products such as makeup, chicken feed and pet food.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 25 02:00 PM

If you are wanting to test every food animal that goes to slaughter be prepared to pay $500lb for meat. Maybe that is worth it to feel safe from a disease that occurs in about one out of every one million people world wide every year. In the USA fewer than five deaths per billion per year. Autism deserves more consideration.


the sky is not falling ...



glatt  Wednesday Apr 25 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
Glatt you really should read the articles you post. The cow was affected with ATYPICAL BSE a form that occurs spontaneously in cows and human beings but is not the type that can be infectious to animals or humans. It is not a zoonose.
Huh. There it is, in paragraph 12. I admit I didn't see that. I'm not familiar with spontaneously occurring BSE. I'd like to know more about that. If BSE can just appear out of nowhere, then that is a risk that can't be minimized.

Quote:
"The USDA tests about 40,000 cows a year."
I saw that and ignored it. It's a meaningless number without also providing the total number of animals slaughtered each year, especially older animals. It's worse than a meaningless number. It's cheesy marketing. It sounds like a big number and is there simply to try to sway the unthinking reader into assuming the testing is rigorous and that most beef is tested. It is not. it was probably provided by the beef industry.

Quote:
This cow was not a downer cow it was DEAD.
same difference. The point being that both downer cows and dead cows don't go into the human food supply. But before they reach that state, they do.


glatt  Wednesday Apr 25 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
If you are wanting to test every food animal that goes to slaughter be prepared to pay $500lb for meat.
You lose credibility when you make shit up. A two minute Google search shows a BSE test is going to cost $30-$50 per animal. When you divide that by the few hundred pounds of meat you get from each animal, you wind up with an increased cost of 10 cents to 50 cents per pound, depending on the size of the animal.


Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 25 02:29 PM

It was hyperbole I was not making shit up.

I did not make up the number of people in this country affected with BSE every year. Fewer than five deaths per billion per year You might as well be afraid of the boogey man.



Nirvana  Wednesday Apr 25 02:35 PM

BTW the test does not administer itself> with the government being involved they will probably have to pay 10 people for each test.You know one to hold the cow while one cuts off the head while one collects the blood etc...



Sundae  Wednesday Apr 25 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
It was hyperbole I was not making shit up.
Snicker. I'ma gonna save that one.


infinite monkey  Wednesday Apr 25 02:38 PM

This thread makes me want MOAR BEEF. Not.

:cowsmilie:



classicman  Wednesday Apr 25 10:08 PM

I gotta admit, I'm really jonesin for a nice juicy grilled steak.



classicman  Wednesday Apr 25 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite monkey View Post
Justation? Is that like when someone has a baby with Justin Bieber?
Bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa
FTR - gestation period


xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Apr 26 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
BTW the test does not administer itself> with the government being involved they will probably have to pay 10 people for each test.You know one to hold the cow while one cuts off the head while one collects the blood etc...
And going to take time, which would throttle the supply. It would be wonderful, like the war on drugs.


kerosene  Friday Apr 27 06:04 PM

I'm with ya, Nirvana. Also in the beef "industry." And I will not stop eating beef over this media frenzy, if I can help it...hormone free beef, that is. Yes, the marbling is better in corn fed beef. Speaking of corn, do you use distiller tubs?



Clodfobble  Sunday Apr 29 08:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosene
Yes, the marbling is better in corn fed beef.
I've always found this argument to be pretty irrelevant. I mean, sure, cake tastes better than broccoli too.


sandypossum  Tuesday May 1 06:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
Corn in one form or another is eaten by every living thing on this planet.
No, it's not. We have a small farm and our steers have never had any corn, in any form. They had milk from their mother, and then grass. (And before you ask, their mothers had the same.) Sometimes we give them hay or sileage, but mostly they just eat grass and the other stuff growing in our paddocks. They don't get food supplements. They are very healthy, and at around 2 years, a mobile butcher comes to our farm to kill them. They're not fully grown, but we don't have our own coolroom, and the mobile coolroom that he brings with him can only just fit in a 2 year old steer. Also, the front end loader we borrow from a neighbour would struggle to lift more than that, hence that age. We'd love to leave one to get bigger, but it's not an option for us. The one 2 year old steer we had killed was 350kg dressed.

Our beef is not marbled, but we don't want it or like it marbled. That doesn't mean it's tough. Our beef is neither tough, nor stringy, and the taste and texture is commented on by our friends from the city.

You said much earlier in this thread "Grass fed beef cannot be graded choice or prime. It does not taste good." But surely taste is subjective? By definition? Some prefer veal to beef, some beef to veal, some prefer mutton to lamb, blablabla. Doesn't make one better than the other. Grain fed beef was common in the USA long before it was common here in Australia. My guess is that this is why you think of it as good tasting beef - it's what you were raised on. I prefer ours. What's so hard to accept about that? You can't make a blanket statement about taste. Or are American tastes the standard now? Our local grass fed beef (sold by our prize winning local butcher) is certainly graded prime, and it does taste good.

You also stated "I have had Australian grass fed beef my opinion stands... Have you had prime American beef?" I've had SOME American beef, just as you have had SOME Australian grass fed beef. Maybe neither of us got truly quality beef when we did. The prime American beef I had didn't leave a lasting impression on me. But I do remember coming back to Australia after several years abroad; I remember the first time I ate a (grass fed) steak again and the rush of pleasure the taste gave me. Incidentally, my Dutch husband was also a convert right from the start - he said it was like a revelation.

I have no doubt your beef tastes great. But mine does, too. We just have different tastes.


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