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   CaliforniaMama  Wednesday May 23 10:46 AM

May 23, 2012 - Riot Gear

I was helping my son find images for a poster about the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. He wanted an image of a riot and this is one of the images I came across . . .




classicman  Wednesday May 23 11:19 AM

Can't say he didn't warn 'em.



Aliantha  Wednesday May 23 07:26 PM

haha...now that is funny! lol

eta, I'm going to steal it and stick it on FB. My kids will get a laugh out of it.



SPUCK  Thursday May 24 07:00 AM

Now there's truth in advertising!



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday May 24 10:58 AM

The cops dress like military storm troopers to mace, taser, and club, peaceful, legal protesters and can't figure out why they get no respect.
Replacing respect for the police, with fear of the police, only leads to escalation of violence.



infinite monkey  Thursday May 24 11:00 AM

Amen, brother.

I knew there was something that needed to be said about that picture but I sure as hell didn't know what it was. That was it.



Cyber Wolf  Thursday May 24 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
The cops dress like military storm troopers to mace, taser, and club, peaceful, legal protesters and can't figure out why they get no respect.
Replacing respect for the police, with fear of the police, only leads to escalation of violence.
True, but all it takes is that one knucklehead in the sea of peacefuls to throw a bottle and bloody an officer's head.


glatt  Thursday May 24 04:20 PM

knucklehead, or agent provocateur?



monster  Thursday May 24 08:16 PM

Isn't the image 'shopped?



jimhelm  Thursday May 24 08:43 PM

no, I don't think so....
Attachment 38860



jimhelm  Thursday May 24 08:44 PM

actually, the proper usage of you're and your makes me a tad skeptical....



xoxoxoBruce  Friday May 25 01:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf View Post
True, but all it takes is that one knucklehead in the sea of peacefuls to throw a bottle and bloody an officer's head.
I'm not saying the shouldn't wear helmets but for christ's sake look at them. The boys in blue have become the storm troopers in black.

And in the case of a knucklehead, (or provocateur), the police have surveillance equipment that enables them to pick one person out of a crowd of thousands by his/her nose hair whorls.

The whole mentality of serve and protect, has morphed to what's written on the helmet in the original post... two examples of that attitude:

1 ~ Remember the retired Philly cop that protested in NY while wearing his uniform? Well the FOP in Philly is trying to kick him out and take away his FOP benefits.

2 ~ A Denver cop convicted of driving 143mph on a 2 lane, no shoulder, 55mph road, at night, with a passenger, while drunk, gets 5 days in jail... and his job back.


infinite monkey  Friday May 25 08:57 AM

It's POTOSHOPPED!



Cyber Wolf  Friday May 25 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
I'm not saying the shouldn't wear helmets but for christ's sake look at them. The boys in blue have become the storm troopers in black.

And in the case of a knucklehead, (or provocateur), the police have surveillance equipment that enables them to pick one person out of a crowd of thousands by his/her nose hair whorls.
Well, the gear looks like that for protection's sake, not to look scary and intimidating. Its form follows their function. Their purpose isn't to look inviting or friendly or sexy. They just happen to look scary too, thanks to presentation in movies and TV. Besides, the only time we ever really see crown-to-sole protective gear on cops is when they're in a position to be easily portrayed (and often are) as The Bad Guys in a situation. The riot gear is rarely ever associated with the cops being heroes. They're billed as heroes when they're killed while on duty, but not when they're dressed to protect themselves from the potential of riot damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
The whole mentality of serve and protect, has morphed to what's written on the helmet in the original post... two examples of that attitude:

1 ~ Remember the retired Philly cop that protested in NY while wearing his uniform? Well the FOP in Philly is trying to kick him out and take away his FOP benefits.

2 ~ A Denver cop convicted of driving 143mph on a 2 lane, no shoulder, 55mph road, at night, with a passenger, while drunk, gets 5 days in jail... and his job back.
Not disagreeing with this at all. At the same time, there are guys in the force who hate that this is how some people see the police force as a whole. They have their own knuckleheads, just like the peaceful march often has a few idiots who break windows or damage cars on the way. In their case, unfortunately, a lot of the knuckleheads are the ones in charge or in decision-making positions.


xoxoxoBruce  Saturday May 26 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf View Post
Well, the gear looks like that for protection's sake, not to look scary and intimidating. Its form follows their function.

Right, I'm sure they aren't trying to look scary.
It's the the militarization of the American police.

Quote:
They just happen to look scary too, thanks to presentation in movies and TV.
TV? Yes, the evening news, several times a week.
Quote:
Besides, the only time we ever really see crown-to-sole protective gear on cops is when they're in a position to be easily portrayed (and often are) as The Bad Guys in a situation. The riot gear is rarely ever associated with the cops being heroes.
Because when they're dressed that way they're not being heroes, they are being instigators of violence, or tools of the stupid "War on Drugs".

Quote:
...At the same time, there are guys in the force who hate that this is how some people see the police force as a whole.
I'm sure you're right, I'd even venture it's the majority, but that doesn't stop the Blue Code of Silence.

Not long ago I witnessed a rogue cop being a complete dick, breaking eleventeen laws, and abusing the shit out of a innocent couple. All the while eight other cops stood around shaking their heads, rolling their eyes, face palming, and not doing a god damn thing about it.


SPUCK  Saturday May 26 05:55 AM

Wow.. You subscribe to the whole enchilada.



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday May 26 01:27 PM

I don't "subscribe" to anything but my experience, and first hand accounts of friends. Even with them, I try to discard exaggerations and embellishments.

I've posted here about the PA state cop that saved my ass when I fell and dislocated my shoulder in the woods. I also posted about sending thank you cards to the two cops that shot and killed a bank robber who opened fire in a crowded parking lot.

I have a lot of respect for cops, and the shit they face every day. None for the people that use them for evil, and contempt for the ones that refuse to confront rogue cops.



wolf  Saturday May 26 06:09 PM

I'm in the 'shopped crowd on this one.

Police departments these days as super-sensitive to public image. So much so that no officer would be permitted that kind of personal expression on equipment, particularly some one with rank (those look like Captain's bars on that vest). Actually the whole outfit looks less tidy than regulation. If that is an undoctored image, perhaps it's of a rioter, not the riot squad?

As far as riot gear, SWAT, etc. ... if people weren't assholes, we would need that kind of policing.



Aliantha  Saturday May 26 07:05 PM

I don't care if it's shopped. It's still funny in context.

As to cops in riot gear. I think they have a right to protect themselves from petrol bombs and all the other nasties that sometimes get thrown about during some protests. If the best protection happens to be a military style outfit then that's just life. Why should the cops who put their lives on the line every day for those same knuckleheads, be in more danger just so they don't look too scary? It's a nasty scary world out there, and it's getting worse.



ZenGum  Saturday May 26 07:16 PM

It is true that sometimes there are riots where strong police force is necessary, and a well equipped riot squad (or well-armed SWAT team) is called for.

Problem is, once that squad exists, it wants to find something to do. And the powers that be seem quite keen to use that sort of force even when it really isn't called for. As Bruce said, this alienates the majority of people and makes the cops the enemy.

Last year I saw a doco which talked about dealing with the riots at the Celtics Vs Rangers games in Scotland. Step one was to make one set of entrances for Celtics fans, and the other set of entrances for Rangers fans, but they were within sight of each other and just a bottle's throw apart.
If the gap in between was filled with fully equipped riot cops, things almost always turned violent. Instead they now fill the gap with ordinary cops in uniform, and things almost always remain peaceful. They do, of course, have a few truckloads of riot cops in a warehouse a short distance away.



classicman  Saturday May 26 08:02 PM

FWIW ... Print this out and keep it in your wallet.



Aliantha  Saturday May 26 08:25 PM

On the flip side, there was an issue here in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago where a tent embassy had been set up by indigenous people, but the Greek community wanted to hold their annual festival there.

Police were brought in to move the embassy (in the end, just to one side of the park), but the one item that really caught my attention was that one copper booked a woman in her car who tooted her horn in support of the aboriginal people.

Way to alienate the general population mate!



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday May 31 02:17 AM

And the beat goes on...

Quote:
A Toronto internal police disciplinary ruling found that Constable Andrew Vanderburgh was "harassed and berated" by other cops because he insisted on booking an off-duty cop whom he'd caught driving drunk. Vanderburgh, a rookie, brought in Breton Berthiaume based on a phoned-in tip about an erratic highway driver. Berthiaume, an off-duty cop, failed a breathalyzer. When Vanderburgh went ahead and booked the other officer, his fellow cops objected, and began a campaign of harassment and intimidation. The Toronto Star's Betsy Powell reports:
link


Undertoad  Thursday May 31 08:11 AM

Yeeeah. Couple years ago a PA state trooper turned the wrong way on to the Schuylkill from Spring Garden and proceeded up the highway at speed until he hit someone. He was killed. He was drunk.

It turned out he supervised DUI checkpoints and reconstructed fatal accidents. And it turned out to be 1am the night before his 8am court appearance for DUI.

true story



Perry Winkle  Thursday May 31 08:18 AM

I might believe those riot suits were not meant for intimidation if they made them in happy pastel colors.



wolf  Thursday May 31 01:57 PM

Pastels show too much dirt. You need the blacks and charcoal grays, really.



wolf  Thursday May 31 02:01 PM

Well, there's a surprise. Cops are human, and humans sometimes do stupid things.



Cyber Wolf  Thursday May 31 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Right, I'm sure they aren't trying to look scary.
About as terrifying as a guy in a welder's mask, but maybe I'm just not scared by the look. I suggest the elbow to elbow, show-of-force march formation is 'scarier' than the outfit itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
TV? Yes, the evening news, several times a week.
That's exactly what I'm saying. When's the last time a policeman (or line of policemen) in riot gear were really touted as the ones to run to and not run from anywhere? I suppose a shopkeeper might welcome the sight if his windows are being broken during a protest but who else?


Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Because when they're dressed that way they're not being heroes, they are being instigators of violence, or tools of the stupid "War on Drugs".
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
I'm sure you're right, I'd even venture it's the majority, but that doesn't stop the Blue Code of Silence.

Not long ago I witnessed a rogue cop being a complete dick, breaking eleventeen laws, and abusing the shit out of a innocent couple. All the while eight other cops stood around shaking their heads, rolling their eyes, face palming, and not doing a god damn thing about it.
No, it doesn't and it won't. And it's not just the police. Just about any fraternity-type group where the idea of watching each others' backs and trusting your brother is deeply ground in will have the same problems. The military, for example. The difference is, it's culturally acceptable and sometimes demanded that we cheer on all military members, even the ones who go AWOL, even the ones who go into civilian homes and murder the whole family with no justifiable threat as a pretext, even the ones who cut off souvenir fingers and piss on the bodies afterwards, even the ones who come home with PTSD issues and haul off and kill someone in cold blood... somehow that's okay, people want to give them a pass, they still aren't scary because they're service members and they voluntarily joined the Greatest Military This World Has Ever Known(tm). However, if people see a line of cops in reinforced welder's masks and body armor that looks like a slimmed down version of a football player's pads, they're terrifying. Perhaps it's because they're doing their scary things in your neighborhood, so to speak, instead of halfway around the world?


xoxoxoBruce  Friday Jun 1 02:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf View Post
About as terrifying as a guy in a welder's mask, but maybe I'm just not scared by the look. I suggest the elbow to elbow, show-of-force march formation is 'scarier' than the outfit itself.
I would tend to agree, but I've seen a phalanx of police in regular uniforms move a crowd with no trouble. I think the riot gear says I've come to kick ass.

Quote:
That's exactly what I'm saying. When's the last time a policeman (or line of policemen) in riot gear were really touted as the ones to run to and not run from anywhere?
When they wore regular uniforms and targeted only troublemakers.
Quote:
I suppose a shopkeeper might welcome the sight if his windows are being broken during a protest but who else??
Anyone near the G-8 "protesters", every time.

[quote]No, it doesn't and it won't. And it's not just the police. Just about any fraternity-type group where the idea of watching each others' backs and trusting your brother is deeply ground in will have the same problems. The military, for example. The difference is, it's culturally acceptable and sometimes demanded that we cheer on all military members, even the ones who go AWOL, even the ones who go into civilian homes and murder the whole family with no justifiable threat as a pretext, even the ones who cut off souvenir fingers and piss on the bodies afterwards, even the ones who come home with PTSD issues and haul off and kill someone in cold blood... somehow that's okay, people want to give them a pass, they still aren't scary because they're service members and they voluntarily joined the Greatest Military This World Has Ever Known(tm).[quote] I don't, if I know about it.

Quote:
However, if people see a line of cops in reinforced welder's masks and body armor that looks like a slimmed down version of a football player's pads, they're terrifying. Perhaps it's because they're doing their scary things in your neighborhood, so to speak, instead of halfway around the world?
Good point, although they don't do it in my 'hood because we have state police coverage instead of local cops, so they're not bullies for the local politicians.


xoxoxoBruce  Friday Jun 1 02:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf View Post
Well, there's a surprise. Cops are human, and humans sometimes do stupid things.
So they get a pass unlike others that do stupid shit?


glatt  Friday Jun 1 08:35 AM

Not only shouldn't cops get a pass, but they should be held to a higher standard than everyone else.

The Spiderman movies really overdid this to the point of making it sound cheesy, but with power comes responsibility. Cops are exactly the ones who should be turning in their coworkers who are breaking the law. It ruins the reputations of all cops when a dirty cop is not only tolerated but actually protected.



Cyber Wolf  Friday Jun 1 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post

Quote:
That's exactly what I'm saying. When's the last time a policeman (or line of policemen) in riot gear were really touted as the ones to run to and not run from anywhere?
When they wore regular uniforms and targeted only troublemakers.
Then they aren't in riot gear, are they? Or you mean when they wear regular uniforms under the riot gear?


xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Jun 2 02:55 AM

Exactly my point, riot gear causes riots.



ZenGum  Saturday Jun 2 06:41 AM

I think we established a while back that the presence of DanaC is strongly correlated with protests turning into riots.



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