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   CaliforniaMama  Sunday Jul 15 12:06 PM

July 15, 2012 - Circumsized Baby



Quote:
When a girl is taken — usually by her mother — to a free circumcision event held each spring in Bandung, Indonesia, she is handed over to a small group of women who, swiftly and yet with apparent affection, cut off a small piece of her genitals.


Quote:
Circumcisions take place in a prayer center or an emptied-out elementary-school classroom where desks are pushed together and covered with sheets and a pillow to serve as makeshift beds.
It takes several minutes to remove a small amount of skin or the clitoral hood, with very little blood. Sometimes, the citoris itself is removed, but that is not the common procedure. Afterward, she is given a small gift of fruit or clothing, and a cup of milk. In 2003, a study was done in Indonesia, showing that 96% of daughters were circumcised.

Quote:
Laura Guarenti, an obstetrician and WHO’s medical officer for child and maternal health in Jakarta, says, “The fact is there is absolutely no medical value in circumcising girls.”
From the New York Times



Ibby  Sunday Jul 15 04:05 PM

Child abuse.



footfootfoot  Sunday Jul 15 05:00 PM

I thought it said customized baby. I expected gold rimmed wheels and or a fur fedora.



Gravdigr  Sunday Jul 15 06:13 PM

Day ain't no way dat baby's eyes don't be 'shopped.



Aliantha  Sunday Jul 15 08:25 PM

How wide do you think your eyes would be if someone held you down and another person cut a perfectly good piece of your flesh off your body?



ZenGum  Monday Jul 16 07:44 AM

I think the eyes are real.

This procedure, pointless and stupid thought it may be, is small change compared to the radical "female circumcisions" practiced in some parts of Africa. These range from complete clitorectomy to infibulation, where the labia are cut off and the vagina sewn shut. On the wedding night, the groom uses a knife to gain access.

W.
T.
F????

The most amazing thing, to me, is that the social pressure to maintain this, and the actual operation, is mostly done by women.

I'm against that.



DanaC  Monday Jul 16 08:07 AM

Not just women, Zen. In the school playgrounds, little girls who haven't had that done to them are teased and called dirty by those who have.



Sundae  Monday Jul 16 11:58 AM

And maybe the women want the little girls to be just like Mummy.
In the way non-religious men want their sons to look just like Daddy, so have them circumcised too.

I'm glad my niece and partner believe that God didn't put that extra piece of skin there just to keep doctors employed. They'll keep their foreskins unless there is a medical necessity to have them removed. Factory settings all the way in this family.

Just last month in London a Ghanaian boy bled to death following his circumcision by a Rabbi. He told the worried mother to rub Vaseline on the wound.



Clodfobble  Monday Jul 16 07:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGum
The most amazing thing, to me, is that the social pressure to maintain this, and the actual operation, is mostly done by women.

I'm against that.
In this country, most male circumcisions are performed by male doctors, and most women say they leave the decision on whether to circumcise their sons up to their husbands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC
In the school playgrounds, little girls who haven't had that done to them are teased and called dirty by those who have.
As young as playgrounds, no. But yes, in this country there is definitely an association with uncircumcised penises being unclean, among teenage and 20-something girls.


I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying the whole mindset is not as foreign as you might believe.


Aliantha  Monday Jul 16 07:30 PM

I don't think it's a very big deal over here. None of my boys are circumcised, and my daughter definitely wont be. I've never heard of anyone giving the boys a hard time cause they have all of their penis intact. I only know of one of my cousins who's had her sons circumcised and it's been her decision to do so because she just 'feels that it's cleaner'. I've raised my objections to the practice with her, but in the end, it's not illegal, and she has it done in the hospital etc, so the risk is pretty minimal.

My older boys have had more issues surrounding racism through their school life, than what their penis looks like.



DanaC  Monday Jul 16 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post

As young as playgrounds, no. But yes, in this country there is definitely an association with uncircumcised penises being unclean, among teenage and 20-something girls.
I dont think there's any social pressure to circumcise males here.


classicman  Monday Jul 16 10:13 PM

Quote:
My older boys have had more issues surrounding racism through their school life, than what their penis looks like.
One wold hope so, they do wear clothes to school down there, right?


Wombat  Monday Jul 16 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibby View Post
Child abuse.
Yes.


Aliantha  Monday Jul 16 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
One wold hope so, they do wear clothes to school down there, right?
Yeah, but they have showers after footy and stuff. They don't do that with their clothes on, and being boys, they usually don't bother shutting the door.

I'm pretty sure most teenage boys are pretty happy to get their dangly bits out as much as possible anyway aren't they?


classicman  Monday Jul 16 11:15 PM

Not that I'm aware of, nor that I really have any idea. I grew up in a different generation.
Then again, maybe it was just me.



Aliantha  Monday Jul 16 11:42 PM

Maybe it's just footballers? lol



Sundae  Tuesday Jul 17 02:55 AM

Unless lads have some sort of body issue, then my experience is also that they like to air their tackle as much as possible. Get a camera out amongst drunk 18 year old men and you'll have all the flaccid cock and balls shots you could ever wish for.

Ho ho ho, look how drunk I was!

Teens don't need drink, but are simply curious to see how they match up.
I've had many male friends admit to me about group masturbation, (literal) pissing contests etc.
In comparison I never showed my lady-garden to my friends.

I think it's a display instinct.



classicman  Tuesday Jul 17 12:13 PM

"Group Masturbation" ?!?!?!?!?!?!That must be a British thing...



Sundae  Tuesday Jul 17 12:19 PM

Do Americans not play the biscuit game?



infinite monkey  Tuesday Jul 17 12:27 PM

American boys play the fart game.

Group masturbation was pretty contained to gay and gay-in-waiting.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.



DanaC  Tuesday Jul 17 12:36 PM

It's a big thing amongstthe hard knock rugby types. Ya know, 'avin a laugh, a bit of booze, a BJ, just for lulz.



glatt  Tuesday Jul 17 01:40 PM

I knew a guy in college who had gone to private school, and he was talking about circle jerks one day and everyone was like, huh? And he explained what they were, and everyone was like, WTF Dude! And then he claimed that he was never in one but that he had heard about them.

Eww.



infinite monkey  Tuesday Jul 17 03:03 PM

Did he belong to FFA?



classicman  Tuesday Jul 17 03:45 PM

Was he British?



footfootfoot  Tuesday Jul 17 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
I knew a guy in college who had gone to private school, and he was talking about circle jerks one day and everyone was like, huh? And he explained what they were, and everyone was like, WTF Dude! And then he claimed that he was never in one but that he had heard about them.

Eww.
I think it was very popular in private schools. I have heard of the "Cookie" game (I assume it is essentially the biscuit game) only from prep school types.

I guarantee if your reaction had not been one of revulsion, but of interest he would have fessed up (notice I didn't say "come clean") and admitted to being a participant.

It's very gay, imo


Clodfobble  Tuesday Jul 17 07:37 PM

I dunno, I think it's one of those urban legends that never actually happens. Like pulling a "fuck tab" off a can of soda in my day, or those stupid colored bracelets from about 10 years ago that were supposed to equate to various sex acts, but it was all titillation, cheerleaders weren't actually giving blowjobs to random nerds who managed to swipe a bracelet off them.



monster  Tuesday Jul 17 10:28 PM

All circumcision is wrong imo.

My boys aren't done and have never complained about it, but here (US -could be just my little pocket, but I hear it's the same everywhere), they do not shower after gym in school. Most of the time, they don't even change clothes. they do gym in their street clothes and then go right to their next class. it's gross. My 14yo daughter was disgusted that she had personal fitness (a mandatory course) first hour and the teacher begrudged them time to change out of their sweaty clothes and sneakers, never mind take a shower. but at least they have no opportunity to show and compare naughty bits.

There is no "locker room" atmosphere/mentality until they get to high school sports (aged 14/15)
and even then....

Daughter is a swimmer. They have a communal locker room. They see each other in next to nothing during practice... and yet they take 45 minutes to get out of practice because they take it in turns to change in the toilet cubicles. Oh and they are all great contortionist because, on arrival, they put their suits on over their knickers and bra, and then take those off. Bra easy. knickers/panties.......

Something's wrong here imo, but maybe i'm just a sex-crazed European.



Sundae  Wednesday Jul 18 03:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
I dunno, I think it's one of those urban legends that never actually happens. Like pulling a "fuck tab" off a can of soda in my day, or those stupid colored bracelets from about 10 years ago that were supposed to equate to various sex acts, but it was all titillation, cheerleaders weren't actually giving blowjobs to random nerds who managed to swipe a bracelet off them.
Nope, I have heard it straight from the horse's mouth.
By group masturbation I don't mean pulling eachother's puds. I mean 2/3/4 early teens in a tightly knit group, one afternoon discussing pubes and stiffies and wanking, and then doing it in front of eachother. No more sexual than pissing, something most men do in front of eachother every day.

I must admit the only men I knew who admitted to the biscuit game were Squaddies. And they had so many disgusting games (shit sandwich..?) that I have to believe it's true. They'd play spoof for the order in which they fucked a prostitute. Their whole lives revolved around bonding, spunk and humiliation.


DanaC  Wednesday Jul 18 07:07 AM

yep. It was rugby lads that I knew who did that sort of thing.



infinite monkey  Wednesday Jul 18 07:09 AM

After I suspended my disbelief, I threw up in my mouth a little.

It's like gorillas and other monkeys I guess. Very civilized and proper.



ZenGum  Wednesday Jul 18 07:21 AM

Well, I've heard of "soggy biscuit" as it is called down here, but never known anyone who has actually done it. Like most things, it probably happens more often that I would like to believe.



classicman  Wednesday Jul 18 04:13 PM

I'll still hope for it being an Urban Legend.



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jul 18 11:47 PM

Hate to burst your bubble.
http://advancedmasturbation.com/mutual/stories.html



classicman  Wednesday Jul 18 11:56 PM

lalalalalalalalalalalalalala can't read your post. lalalalalalalalalalalalalala



Aliantha  Thursday Jul 19 04:25 AM

Yeah, soggy sao is the name down here, and plenty of fellas do it. The true end result of the 'game' is that is whoever blows on the sao last has to eat it.



SPUCK  Friday Jul 20 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
lalalalalalalalalalalalalala can't read your post. lalalalalalalalalalalalalala



CaliforniaMama  Saturday Jul 21 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha View Post
I'm pretty sure most teenage boys are pretty happy to get their dangly bits out as much as possible anyway aren't they?
Maybe older teens, but my soon-to-be-13 boys are very worried about middle school because they might have to take showers. They don't want anyone seeing their "junk." They may not even have seen each other's for a few years from the way they talk - meaning that they don't seem to know that one's a grower and one's a show-er.

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
"Group Masturbation" ?!?!?!?!?!?!That must be a British thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae View Post
Do Americans not play the biscuit game?
Nope. I read about it in a book written for early pubescent boys. It was very direct about all things sexual for teenage boys. It didn't say anything about the biscuit game, though!



Aliantha  Saturday Jul 21 07:16 PM

They probably didn't want to scare the wits out of a pre teen mother. lol



glatt  Thursday Jul 26 09:33 AM

Saw this in the paper this morning. It surprised me. Most stuff you see about circumcision is criticizing it. It's rare that you see something promoting it with studies and shit.

Quote:
Circumcision decreases AIDS risk, but procedure hasn’t been fully embraced
By David Brown, Published: July 25

Circumcision substantially decreases a man’s risk of becoming infected with the AIDS virus by a woman, but acceptance of the procedure has been slow in Africa, where it would do the most good. There’s also evidence that some people overestimate circumcision’s protective effects — a potentially dangerous and unintended consequence of campaigns promoting it.

Those are among the findings presented at the 19th International AIDS Conference here this week.

As a medical procedure, circumcision is simple and becoming simpler. New research shows that nurses can perform it safely after three days of training, and it can be done in assembly-line fashion using devices that don’t require scalpels and stitches.

Although circumcision’s effect on protection against HIV is clear — three studies have shown a 60 percent reduction in risk to men — as a public health strategy, it is fraught with caveats.
more

This article only talks about the relationship between HIV and circumcision. I wonder about the numbers for other STDs.


Lamplighter  Thursday Jul 26 10:30 AM

Quote:
...— as a public health strategy, it is fraught with caveats.
Arguments are 2 doors down on the left.
This is Understatements.


Clodfobble  Thursday Jul 26 05:28 PM

I've always thought there must have been a legitimate medical reason for it coming into practice in the first place, thousands of years ago. God says don't eat shellfish because you're much more likely to get food poisoning, and God says cut off your foreskin because there's a bad STD going around that's probably extinct by now. Just like mulesing sheep...



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