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   Undertoad  Saturday Mar 15 02:59 PM

3/15/2003: Airport security's taken items



This is a shot of items that were confiscated at Baltimore-Washington International Airport by security. And a PSA: if you're flying, you can't take scissors with you. Or garden tools. Or corkscrews or specialty tweezers or wrenches or utility knives or toenail clippers or swiss army knives or medical clamps.

Says here that airport screeners have seized more than 4.8 million items in the last 13 months, including a circular saw.

Not sure why the wrench is prohibited, but maybe an industrious terrorist could unbolt pieces of the plane during flight.



wolf  Saturday Mar 15 03:02 PM

I am certainly amused at the number of people who were all ready to open a bottle of wine ... but why the heck did someone expect to do a little gardening on the plane?



wolf  Saturday Mar 15 03:09 PM

I think they should have a little post-office at the security screening area ... overcharge you for a puffy envelope to mail stuff like this to yourself.

(I have a some OVERPRICED pairs of scissors I use for craftwork that I would be very unhappy about if I had to surrender them to a screener.)

I remember seeing another box o' stuff that had supposedly been recovered from an airport security checkpoint that was supposedly for sale at a Salvation Army store near one of the major city airports ... was that posted here?



Cochese  Saturday Mar 15 03:17 PM

I remember a Fark link not too long ago about a California airport selling some of the nicer confiscated items on ebay.

When I see stories like this, all I can think about is how ppl in prison still manage to kill each other w/o scissors. This is such a minor setback for somebody who's really out for blood.



linknoid  Saturday Mar 15 06:17 PM

Re: 3/15/2003: Airport security's taken items

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
Not sure why the wrench is prohibited, but maybe an industrious terrorist could unbolt pieces of the plane during flight.
When my dad went with a group over to Magadan (part of the former Soviet Union, near Siberea), some of the group went skydiving. Apparently they had 5 minutes of instruction before going up in the plane. I heard that when they were airborne and flying straight, the pilot got up out of the cockpit and went along each of the passenger seats with a wrench tightening bolts in the plane's structure that were coming loose.


Torrere  Saturday Mar 15 06:44 PM

Don't worry.

Soon enough, you won't be able to take fists or even hands on an airplane, because terrorists might strangle people with them.

Doesn't anybody think of the children? One of the future leaders of America could be on that plane!!



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Mar 15 07:18 PM

You don't understand why you can't take a wrench on the plane? BECAUSE WE SAID SO!!! We are Deutch...I mean Homeland Security. You will obey!

20 years ago I was boarding a flight in Kansas City, Kansas for Philadelphia carrying a fiberglass toolcase. It contained a hammer, chisels, screwdrivers, wrenches, wire cutters, soldering iron, utility knife, hacksaw, etc, etc. They demanded I remove the hacksaw blade and surrender it or put in a checked bag. I told them that was bullshit. They told me it was a policy based on the hardness of the metal. I insisted letting me on with all the other tools but not that blade was stupid. After 15 minutes they relented and I boarded with everything. I would have had no objection to having to put everything in checked baggage, but
just couldn't stand the idiocy.



Nothing But Net  Saturday Mar 15 07:48 PM

They won't let us carry our razors, so we grow beards. With beards we look like Taliban.

The vicious cycle continues...



chrisinhouston  Monday Mar 17 05:25 PM

So why would a person take a garden trowel on an airplane? Perhaps he was a Shrubber, as in Roger the Shrubber.

About a month after the Sept. 11 incident I had to fly on business and forgot that I had a little Swiss Army knife on my key chain. I stood around not far from the security check point trying to figure out what to do with my knife and decided to take it off my key ring and stick it in the plastic plant mulch in the lobby.

3 days later when I got back I went to the fake tree and dug into the mulch and got back my knife.

Which brings up a good point. How about a storage business at the airports that secures your item until you return.



chrisinhouston  Monday Mar 17 05:32 PM

When I was 17 or 18 I worked a maintenance job at a hotel that had a polo theme for one of the bars. They were remodeling and I asked for the 4 polo mallets on the wall.

I had a cousin I was visiting for the summer in Minnesota who lived on a farm and had some horses so I thought that it would be funny to give her the polo mallets.

So when I checked my luggage at the Northwest Airlines counter they told me to take the clubs on the plane. But the security folks had other ideas. "Take them back" I was told as they could be used as a weapon to take over the plane. As I recall the clubs were about 5 feet long. I don't know if you could actually swing one on a plane let alone hit what you were aiming for.



Elspode  Monday Mar 17 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
20 years ago I was boarding a flight in Kansas City, Kansas [snip!]
I gotta know...where in Kansas City Kansas were you boarding a plane?

Yes, I know, I'm one of those Kansas vs. Missouri jerkoffs. There is no airport in Kansas City Kansas, not since the early 60's, I think. It is now a GM plant, and they used to make landing craft here during WWII.

Signing off being a dick, now.


slang  Monday Mar 17 08:28 PM

The focus of all this airport security crap is in the wrong direction. Do we trust our citizens with firearms or not. I am always amazed at the gov't ability to twist reality into fantasy. Allow CCW holders to carry *on the fucking plane* and they will be your airport security willingly *for free*!!

This is such a fucking no brainer, it makes my head hurt even talking about it.

Responsible , law abiding people carry weapons every day without incident. If you are in Pa, look around you sometime and realize that statewide, 1 in 12 that you see may have a loaded firearm on them*! Are they causing trouble? No. This is the cost effective solution to all this security non-sense.

* I originally meant legally with a permit but the same applies to some parts of the city by the criminals.



Nothing But Net  Monday Mar 17 09:35 PM

slang, are you Archie-fucking-Bunker?

Did you ever see Goldfinger?

I even had to warn Pussy about firing a weapon inside a pressurized cabin.

Especially when the passengers are as numerous and packed in as tight as on a commercial flight.

It's the OK Corral in the sky folks!

Fucking brilliant!

WTF are you thinking? The fantasy of it all is fun, but the reality sucks.



wolf  Monday Mar 17 10:18 PM

When the armed pilot debate started up there were quite a few mentions of explosive decompression (and mentions of that scene in Goldfinger.) Actually it was the first thing I thought of ...

But apparently it doesn't work that way in real life. I had hoped that my answer would be found here but unfortunately the good people at Intuitor have not looked at explosive decompression in film recently.

The nice people at packing.org have discussed the topic at length.



juju  Monday Mar 17 10:46 PM

Aw schnap! NBN, WTF were YOU thinking?



wolf  Monday Mar 17 10:48 PM

Dunno what you're all worked up about, Juju ... the fantasy of seeing large people sucked through tiny holes is still fun, even if it's only a fantasy ...



Drydock  Monday Mar 17 10:51 PM

Canada Post post

"I think they should have a little post-office at the security screening area ... overcharge you for a puffy envelope to mail stuff like this to yourself. "

Up here, we have exactly that, for a gigantic mark-up of course. My mom had to send her Swiss Army Card to herself. They let her leave the screening area, so she walked to the real post office in the terminal and sent it home for a third the cost. (i guess they have to pay some 14 year old kid to carry it from security to the drop box.)



juju  Monday Mar 17 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
Dunno what you're all worked up about, Juju ... the fantasy of seeing large people sucked through tiny holes is still fun, even if it's only a fantasy ...
Sorry, perhaps I misread! I was under the impression that NBN thought the Goldfinger scene was reality.


wolf  Monday Mar 17 11:00 PM

juju ... I think he thinks that's how it works too ... which was why I looked up the "how it really works" stuff ...

mebbe i should have highlighted the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags on my post??



juju  Monday Mar 17 11:26 PM

Well, in that case I guess it's my turn to have missed the joke.



slang  Monday Mar 17 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nothing But Net


It's the OK Corral in the sky folks!


I know this seems to contradict what we have all been told and taught in this culture, but carrying firearms actually reduces violence in 2 ways.

I carry a legally purchased handgun for my own protection and amusement. I wear it like most people wear shoes. It goes with me everywhere I can legally take it, and it is ready to defend my life at a moment's notice. As a CCW holder (permit to carry holder) I see this as normal. It is a huge responsibility and I accept it by modifying my thought process and habits to carry a handgun safely and legally. The absolute *last* thing I want to do is harm someone unintentionally with a firearm and the second to the last thing I want is to be killed or injured by a criminal or dog because I didn't have the ability to defend myself in a life or death situation.

In my pre 911 life, I would travel extensively throughout the eastern US. Many times at night. Before I made the committment to carry, I would not stop to help anyone that may be in distress for fear of eanding up in some crazy guys chipper , or something nuts like that. There was one time that I didn't stop for a man I nearly hit in the highway as he was flagging me down to stop after his car had apparently caught fire. I didn't dare stop, I was alone, afraid, and far from home. I wouldn't have stopped for anyone. Then I started taking the pistol with me. I had no fears of being killed and when I saw someone that needed help at least would stop to see what the trouble was. I have also run into dangerous people on the road. The handgun is a great insurance policy if you accept the responsibility. The overwhelming majority of "good folks" do. If they didn't we would hear nothing *BUT* gun tragedies and crime stories 24/7, tens of millions of people use them to aid society every single day.

It is also true, despite what you may have seen in movies or imagine in your own mind, that gun folks are the first to *avoid* trouble. We are actually trained in how *NOT* to escalate situations to shooting battles. We don't want to shoot, brandish or brag. We dont want to be dead either, which is often the only option for victims. It is truely the fact that I *can* wipe out the entire nieghborhood that allows me to evade true physical confrontation. My fight or flight adrenaline is not racing through my system, I know if we fight, you'll be dead. I also know that I don't want to go to jail, which a criminal is not as likely to really be concerned with, probably having been there before many times. A fight is the last thing I want, for me and for you. I don't know any OK corral gunslingers because they don't have guns long, they do something stupid and go to jail or lose their guns.

I have actually even been in arguments with people while wearing a handgun. The way you deal with people is different when you carry a gun though. I have never pulled it out in anger or rage. Only one time in 3 years has my handgun cleared leather , and that was because a homeless guy used very bad judgement and startled me in a strange city. No, I didnt shoot him , I helped him. But if I had been afraid, I probably would not have felt safe enough to do so. So, my having a handgun made a small difference to a homeless man in distress. This happens more times than you will ever know. Guns save lives. Guns allow people to do the right thing without fear.

There are men and women in my family that carry regularly. We've never shot anyone. Thank God, we haven't had to.

So, when people talk about the old west and the OK corral, I just think of all the guns around me right now, and the friends I have that carry, and the places we go. I don't understand where they get the notion that there would be shooting in the streets like the olds days when people carry guns. It's a complete mystery to me, I've never seen that happen and I have a *lot* of guns and have gone a *lot* of places with people that have them. It's a silly notion. Maybe someday we can erase this nonsense from people's minds. Maybe then we can eliminate the bullshit we have going on at airports then too, and let the good guys protect us all by protecting themselves.

(slang's eyes lighten as he kisses his defensive handgun goodnight)


Nothing But Net  Monday Mar 17 11:51 PM

I was kidding about Goldfinger. I know that isn't what would really happen.

Most of you know I am not anti-gun. Hell, I own one.

But do you honestly think it would be a good idea to allow the general public to carry guns onto planes (CCL or not)?




juju  Monday Mar 17 11:59 PM

Sure, having a gun makes you feel safe. But does it actually make you safe? Isn't it possible for someone to subdue you before you have a chance to draw your gun? Isn't it possible for them to then take your gun from you and kill you with it?



slang  Tuesday Mar 18 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by juju
Isn't it possible for them to then take your gun from you and kill you with it?

They dont know where it is and *I* do. Also, it is true that police officers are targetted for the handguns, but a citizen with a ccw does not advertise nor is generally required to get close enough for a perp to swipe it. That's *another* gun myth put out by the antis.

If for some reason one got away from me , I have a backup.


slang  Tuesday Mar 18 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nothing But Net
But do you honestly think it would be a good idea to allow the general public to carry guns onto planes (CCL or not)?
I do but I do understand I do not share that level of confidence with the general population*. If ccw holders were all like me and all the holders I know, I would support it highly. This society would never allow it though because the general pop doesn't have a handgun or shoot regularly, so they only can judge the situation by the BS we hear in the media about people not being capable and trustworthy enough to carry guns. It's sad, because the whole security thing could be solved through citizen carry, without any extra costs. Thosands of airline people with lose their jobs through the loss of business because the gen pop is afraid of the *lawful* use of firearms.


* except maybe Texas.


wolf  Tuesday Mar 18 12:49 AM

Despite the numbers of times that the million moms and the Brady Campaign people tell us that happens (evil criminals disarming and then killing poor hapless homeowners with their own guns), it basically really DOESN'T. That's one of the Myths ...

"According to FL State Univ. criminologist Gary Kleck, US Citizens use guns to defend themselves from criminals about 1 million times per year. In 98% of those cases, no shots are fired. The criminal flees at the mere sight of the gun. Citizens only have to shoot their attackers in only 2% of the cases. In only 1% of defensive gun uses do attackers manage to take the gun away from the victim."

(From The Seven Myths of Gun Control - Richard Poe (2001))



juju  Tuesday Mar 18 01:03 AM

You know, Hitler carried guns..



wolf  Tuesday Mar 18 01:17 AM

Hitler also liked German Shepherd Dogs, and was charming around small children.

And for the most part, he only carried guns when he was serving in the German Army in WWI. I've seen a lot of pictures, and while Hitler is often shown in uniform, he rarely, if ever, has a sidearm.

Nazi Germany was one of the first "modern" nations to pursue gun control, registration, and ultimately confiscation.

German Firearms Law

Version for everyone other than me and Dave

"This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" --Adolf Hitler



juju  Tuesday Mar 18 01:18 AM

I swear I found a buncha sites that said that quote was false, though. Hmm.. where are they?

Ah, here's one:

http://www.urbanlegends.com/politics...n_control.html

Hey, what else did Hitler do? Oh, that's right! Spread propaganda!



wolf  Tuesday Mar 18 01:24 AM

well how about that. The JPFO FAQ addresses just that very question. They state that the "This year will go down in history" quote cannot be verified.

But they do provide a MUCH better, verified quote about taking arms away from the "subject races".



wolf  Tuesday Mar 18 01:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by juju
Hey, what else did Hitler do? Oh, that's right! Spread propaganda!
You forgot "made trains run on time" and "assisted in design of Volkswagen"


juju  Tuesday Mar 18 01:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
But they do provide a MUCH better, verified quote about taking arms away from the "subject races".
Feh! A pitiful attempt at backpedaling! Our country controls guns irrespective of race.

Just admit it: You fell headfirst into my trap. Ha ha ha! I am at the top of my game! <i>I'm invincibile!</i>


wolf  Tuesday Mar 18 02:12 AM

Whelp, you know not with whom you trifle!

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership to the rescue yet again!!!

Gun Control Is Racist

Found this leaflet too.



juju  Tuesday Mar 18 02:37 AM

That is ridiculous. I reject it outright.



russotto  Tuesday Mar 18 01:40 PM

Guns on planes making holes in plane: Frangible handgun ammunition was developed to ameliorate that problem.

Nazi Germany: Mussolini made the trains run on time, not Hitler (presumably German trains already ran on time). Actually Mussolini didn't either, but he shot anyone who said they didn't.

Nail clippers: Not forbidden. Specifically listed as permitted.

Shooting someone with a concealed carry weapon, or taking gun away from civilian and using it on them: Happened just recently (a couple of weeks ago) in PA, I heard. That's the first time I've ever heard of that happening for real, though.



OnyxCougar  Tuesday Mar 18 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slang

The handgun is a great insurance policy if you accept the responsibility. The overwhelming majority of "good folks" do.
I completely agree, Slang, but the unfortunate fact is, the majority of gun holders are not "good folks", because they don't accept the responsibility of training and practice that it takes to get the license to legally carry. Yes, the responsible, "good people" could be a viable asset to the airline industry, and indeed, are an asset to the population as a whole. But I would venture to say that the number of ccw are far less then the number of people who carry weapons either illegally or irresponsibly. Of course, I include the teens and criminals in this category. Those are the people that screw it up for the rest of us and entice the media to it's frenzy.


bjlhct  Wednesday Mar 19 03:23 AM

Guns on Planes

Heh, the thought of guns on planes makes me think of "Starship Troopers" when everybody forms a big circle to shoot at something in the middle. Those guys would have a tough time with the Girl Scouts.

So, guns means you might make a hole in the plane which would make everyone get to choose whether to wear an oxygen mask (leash!) or lose consciousness and possibly die. Or they might hit somebody other than the target.

And hmmmm, if there are several hijackers which there would be and if they're carrying the heaviest stuff they can which they will be, hmmm, they might just win a firefight. Especially with how an airplane is laid out.

And hmmm, give the pilot and copilot guns, well maybe one will shoot the other and take over. Sure it's hard to get there, but it's possible. And they'll be behind those locked doors. And nobody will know what's going on.

I have to think that guns on planes is a lousy idea.



dave  Wednesday Mar 19 06:06 AM

A better one, obviously, is to let hijackers take over planes and crash them into tall buildings. What's 3,000 dead when the wrong person might get shot on a plane?



wolf  Wednesday Mar 19 09:35 AM

Welcome to the Cockpit

Got this in my email during the last round of hearings on the issue of armed pilots.



arz  Wednesday Mar 19 01:53 PM

Mmmmmm... scones!



slang  Wednesday Mar 19 03:52 PM

Re: Guns on Planes

Quote:
Originally posted by bjlhct
I have to think that guns on planes is a lousy idea.

So noted. Thank you for your opinion.


wolf  Wednesday Mar 19 04:28 PM

(even if it is stupid)



wolf  Wednesday Mar 19 04:29 PM

(stupid is a little harsh. I really meant "foolish and not well reasoned.")



slang  Thursday Mar 20 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar


I completely agree, Slang, but the unfortunate fact is, the majority of gun holders are not "good folks", because they don't accept the responsibility of training and practice that it takes to get the license to legally carry.
That depends largely on where you are. It's pretty easy here to get a permit. Metro areas have their problems with guns, but in all the years I've been tied to this area, (35) there's only been 2 non-hunting related shootings. (and 3719 hunting related shootings )


wolf  Thursday Mar 20 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slang
2 non-hunting related shootings. (and 3719 hunting related shootings )
you counted the guy outside the nuthouse in the non-hunting right?

and 95.3% of the hunting-relateds don't really count because they are NJ residents.


slang  Thursday Mar 20 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
you counted the guy outside the nuthouse in the non-hunting right?
That only counts for stupidity, and it was self inflicted, but I'll give it to you. 3 in 35 years.


wolf  Thursday Mar 20 11:18 PM

And people wonder why I want to move ... I think phila had three in the last 35 hours ... (okay, so it's an exaggeration, but not much of one). Cooling bodies lead off the newscasts here every night.

I had a coworker murdered within the last year.

I aspire to be rural, gang. For a number of reasons. (kinder, gentler, rural, ass ... sweetie (that's better) notwithstanding)



Bitmap  Friday Mar 21 11:25 AM

I Currently have two ambitions i'd like to accomplish eventualy; to become a CCW, and to get this really cool Tatoo i designed put on me.(I'll let yall know when i Get it and what it looks like). As for the Gun I want to carry a Sig Sauer 9mm. But the Process for becoming a CCW in Fairfax, VA is a long process.<br> Currently i only have and older model of an <a href="http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/pm/main.php?kid=6&l=e&project=jga_de"> ANSCHÜTZ</a> wich i keep under my bed.



russotto  Friday Mar 21 11:59 AM

From what I've heard, getting a carry permit in VA if you're male is very difficult.

Move to PA; they're shall-issue here. Even in Philadelphia. Not that I'd get one. If I feel the need to carry, I'll carry; I'm not going to ask the state for permission.



wolf  Friday Mar 21 02:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bitmap
Currently i only have and older model of an <a href="http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/pm/main.php?kid=6&l=e&project=jga_de"> ANSCHÜTZ</a> wich i keep under my bed.
Nice (sweet, even) for punching paper, not so nice if your purpose is home defense. Find yourself a nice shotgun ...

I also was interested in the SigSauer ... model P229. One thing that's REALLY nice about that particular product line is the exchangability of calibers ... you can get barrels and mags for each cal. and they fit the framesize you have.

I may still end up getting one ... or I could bust the piggy bank and go for the H&K that I've been drooling over.

As far as applying for a permit ... many states require some kind of training before applying. The detailed information regarding the hoops that you will have to jump through is available here


bjlhct  Saturday Mar 22 01:49 PM

I Recommend

http://www.benelliusa.com/m1_tactical/

And thank you for your opinions slang and wolf, even if they're waiting for the clue train at the bus stop and you couldn't take the trouble to read my post.



Serk  Saturday Mar 22 02:55 PM

For what it's worth, Texas is one of the few states that allows non-residents to get a Texas CHL. (Concealed Handgun License)

Texas had recirpocity agreements with many states (Akransas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee and others) and virtual agreements with others. A Texas CHL is honored by Virginia, for instance.

In Texas, you hafta take a 10 hour class (Usually costs in the $150 range, and usually covers finger prints, pictures, etc) and a $140 (I think) fee to the state. If anyone's seriously interested in making a weekend trip to Texas to get their Texas CHL to cover themselves in their homestate, lemme know and I'll dig up more details and some good contacts for you.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, my carry weapon is a Springfield Armory Micro 1911 in .45 ACP. Nice lil' pea-shooter.....



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