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   Tony Shepps  Tuesday Jul 17 10:17 AM

7/17: Hydrogen BMW



BMW got a lot of press the other day when it introduced its hydrogen vehicle. Based on their 700-series. But what I didn't see on the national news was this nifty see-through hood. Damn nifty! I want one!



richlevy  Tuesday Jul 17 01:12 PM

Re: 7/17: Hydrogen BMW

Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Shepps
[IMG]pictures/BMWhydrocar.jpg[/IMG]

BMW got a lot of press the other day when it introduced its hydrogen vehicle. Based on their 700-series. But what I didn't see on the national news was this nifty see-through hood. Damn nifty! I want one!
Since this thing runs on pressurized hydrogen and not fuel cells, a more interesting picture will be the results of the first high-speed collisions involving one of these. Didn't these guys learn anything from the Hindenburg? "Oh the humanity!".


russotto  Tuesday Jul 17 01:22 PM

H2 is not so dangerous

Pressurized hydrogen is flammable, but not nearly so dangerous as gasoline. Worst you'll get is a hydrogen flare if there's a leak in the pressurized part of the system and it ignites. Otherwise the fuel simply escapes into the atmosphere. No fuel spattered all over the place.

ISTR that most of the deaths in the Hindenburg were from the crash, not the fire itself.

But I still don't see the big advantage to H2. It's just a fossil fuel, one step removed -- it's most often made by stripping the hydrogen from natural gas (producing CO2). (electrolysis of water is too energy intensive to be practical, and besides, it becomes fossil fuel TWO steps removed). And burning it in air produces not pure H2O, but H2O + NOx, so you haven't eliminated your mobile pollution problem either.



jet_silver  Tuesday Jul 17 03:04 PM

H2 production

H2O + C -> CO + H2

This is the 'water gas' reaction. IIRC the British gasworks used this process for municipal gas utility. In this reaction the water is supplied as steam; it is passed over red-hot coal. The reaction keeps the coal hot, so it can be sustained for a long time.

It is true you wind up with the amount of CO2 that the carbon you start with produces.

But a H2 powered car doesn't seem to offer many more advantages than that k3w1 clear hood. And - BMW, it's been done, there is nothing original about it. (Am I the only one on the board old enough to remember what kind of car "Color Me Gone" was?)



TheDollyLlama  Tuesday Jul 17 03:42 PM

Re: 7/17: Hydrogen BMW

In other news today, the Bavarian Motor Works has begun work with a new process known as "Photoshop" in order to place two clearly disparate images together for the sake of marketing.



iksotik  Tuesday Jul 17 08:15 PM

The Hindenburg's Problem

The Hindenburg had the large problem of being coated in a highly flamible substance. After the explosion, its manufacturer quietly discontinued use of this substance in the construction of the Hindenburg's sister ship (whose name escapes me). The sister ship in question underwent a great many flights without incident.



jaguar  Wednesday Jul 18 05:13 AM

The substance is very similar to Jet fuel...
That hood, wierd! how'd they blend metal and whatever seethough stuff they used liek that???



Slithy_Tove  Wednesday Jul 18 12:13 PM

Re: H2 production

Quote:
Originally posted by jet_silver
H2O + C -> CO + H2

This is the 'water gas' reaction. IIRC the British gasworks used this process for municipal gas utility. In this reaction the water is supplied as steam; it is passed over red-hot coal. The reaction keeps the coal hot, so it can be sustained for a long time.

It is true you wind up with the amount of CO2 that the carbon you start with produces.

But a H2 powered car doesn't seem to offer many more advantages than that k3w1 clear hood. And - BMW, it's been done, there is nothing original about it. (Am I the only one on the board old enough to remember what kind of car "Color Me Gone" was?)
It seems to me that one major advantage is that all materials are renewable. Yes, coal is a fossil fuel, but charcoal, from wood, could probably be substitued for it. Eventually, oil will run out, but long before it does, it will become increasingly expensive as it becomes scarcer and more costly to obtain. This technology could begin to fill in the need for portable energy for vehicles.

The other obvious benefit is that the net increase of CO2 into the atmosphere is zero, assuming you do something with the CO byproduct. Trees take CO2 out of the atmosphere, are turned into charcoal, release it again in the 'water gas' reaction. Anyone know what happened to the CO when the British manufactured gas with it? Besides killing Sylvia Plath, that is? What's the natural CO cycle in the atmosphere?


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