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   Undertoad  Monday Jul 28 12:52 PM

7/28/2003: 1951 Chevy Truck-Raft



Now this is ingenuity: 12 Cubans were detained and sent back to Cuba after piloting this thing towards the US last week. They actually attached a propeller to the drive shaft and got about 8 MPH out of it. It's all held afloat by empty 55-gallon drums.

Trouble is, it's too big. It was spotted 40 miles south of Key West, which means they only made it about halfway before being picked up and sent back.

You can't stay in the US at all unless you actually make it to shore. But this level of thinking and effort should be rewarded... I say this is exactly the kind of immigrant we want, and they should have been allowed to stay.



pegusitas  Monday Jul 28 01:45 PM

it's disposal

Did you happen to see how the Coast Guard disposed of the truck? I saw news footage of them using the machine gun to blow it up! Pretty cool! You could hear all of the crewmen yelling "Whoa!" when it exploded on the water and then sank to the bottom.



Griff  Monday Jul 28 01:49 PM

Re: it's disposal

Quote:
Originally posted by pegusitas
Did you happen to see how the Coast Guard disposed of the truck? I saw news footage of them using the machine gun to blow it up! Pretty cool! You could hear all of the crewmen yelling "Whoa!" when it exploded on the water and then sank to the bottom.
Say it ain't so! Dang, that was a cool rig.


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jul 28 02:30 PM

I'm with you, Griff. It looked like a lot of careful planning went into the effort with life jackets and everything. I think it's a shame to blow up that rig. Hell it's a shame to even stop them. If they can cross 90 miles of open ocean then they're smart enough to be an asset to us, or is that U.S..



Griff  Monday Jul 28 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
If they can cross 90 miles of open ocean then they're smart enough to be an asset to us, or is that U.S..
Yep.


arz  Monday Jul 28 04:37 PM

I'm thinking the life jackets were supplied by the Coast Guard.



Griff  Monday Jul 28 05:06 PM

You're probably right there. I doubt that you'd use much highly reflective tape if you didn't want to be seen.



Senor Oso  Monday Jul 28 05:11 PM

Holy crap, that looks exactly like something you'd see on Junkyard Wars.



elSicomoro  Monday Jul 28 05:50 PM

Re: 7/28/2003: 1951 Chevy Truck-Raft

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
But this level of thinking and effort should be rewarded... I say this is exactly the kind of immigrant we want, and they should have been allowed to stay.
...so that they can become criminals with ingenious ideas.


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jul 28 06:29 PM

Quote:
I'm thinking the life jackets were supplied by the Coast Guard.
Maybe, but I saw another picture that was taken from some ways off, that showed them. And three of the men don't have them on.
Quote:
I doubt that you'd use much highly reflective tape if you didn't want to be seen.
What about that bright yellow tarp?
Quote:
...so that they can become criminals with ingenious ideas.
That's the first racist statement I've ever heard from you.


Leah  Monday Jul 28 06:39 PM

Thank god they weren't on their way to Australia, we have enough of that happening over here. But I like their idea, couldn't part with the car hey!.



linknoid  Monday Jul 28 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leah
Thank god they weren't on their way to Australia, we have enough of that happening over here. But I like their idea, couldn't part with the car hey!.
Enough criminals?


Quote:
MAN IN BLACK: You've made your decision then?

VIZZINI: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

MAN IN BLACK: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.



elSicomoro  Monday Jul 28 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
That's the first racist statement I've ever heard from you.
I'll try to sum this up as simply as possible...and a number of my 4800 posts along with various members of the Cellar will back me up:

--El sicómoro is not a racist.
--I make fun of damned near anything and everything.


chrisinhouston  Monday Jul 28 08:45 PM

I wonder if the truck would have been drivable? Were they just using it to float over on or did they hook up a propellar to the drive shaft.

Too bad they didn't have AAA!



elSicomoro  Monday Jul 28 08:49 PM

They made it drivable--reread the info under the photo.



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jul 28 09:40 PM

Quote:
--El sicómoro is not a racist.
I know you're not. That's why I was surprised by that statement.
Quote:
--I make fun of damned near anything and everything.
OK, then I won't ask Rho to slap you.


quzah  Monday Jul 28 10:08 PM

Re: 7/28/2003: 1951 Chevy Truck-Raft

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad

It was spotted 40 miles south of Key West, which means they only made it about halfway before being picked up and sent back.

You can't stay in the US at all unless you actually make it to shore. But this level of thinking and effort should be rewarded... I say this is exactly the kind of immigrant we want, and they should have been allowed to stay.
40 miles out and they were picked up? By what authority? That's international waters. America and do shit about me in a bath tub, 5 miles out, snorting coke if I feel like it. So how exactly were they "allowed" to pick them up?

Quzah.


Elspode  Monday Jul 28 10:13 PM

Rules are for other people...we're Americans, damn it, and we run the planet...ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.....!

Come to think of it, I'd like an answer to that as well. I thought you could run a floating whorehouse with impunity in international waters.



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jul 28 10:21 PM

Make that 200 miles.



juju  Monday Jul 28 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elspode
I thought you could run a floating whorehouse with impunity in international waters.
Hey, what a great idea!! Think of it, 'Spode... we'd make millions. <i>Millions!!</i>


99 44/100% pure  Tuesday Jul 29 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by juju

Hey, what a great idea!! Think of it, 'Spode... we'd make millions. <i>Millions!!</i>
Yeah, but you'd still earn less than dave!


Griff  Tuesday Jul 29 07:08 AM

LOL!



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Jul 29 06:04 PM

Quote:
Yeah, but you'd still earn less than dave!
Earn?


Bitman  Wednesday Jul 30 12:58 AM

Re: 7/28/2003: 1951 Chevy Truck-Raft

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
I say this is exactly the kind of immigrant we want, and they should have been allowed to stay.
The rich kind? Big truck, fresh coat of paint, few dozen gallons of fuel .. that couldn't have been cheap.


jaguar  Wednesday Jul 30 01:37 AM

Quote:
Thank god they weren't on their way to Australia, we have enough of that happening over here. But I like their idea, couldn't part with the car hey!
They would have been intercepted by the Navy, been shot at until they jumped overboard and then been used by the Howard propaganda machine to win the next election.....


Hermit  Wednesday Jul 30 01:52 AM

Rule of Law

By what rule of law was their vehicle seized?

If they were 40-50 miles from either shore, they were in international waters. I think it is a fine truck. Since when did people lose the right to cruise international waters in their choice of water craft? I might even go so far as to understand telling them to turn back, but destroying the truck was uncalled for. Just the feds out of control again.

If you dare to exist in this world in a way that is outside the expectations of the US government, then they will sink your sorry ass. Your tax dollars at work.



Hubris Boy  Thursday Jul 31 10:42 AM

Re: Rule of Law

Quote:
Originally posted by Hermit

If you dare to exist in this world in a way that is outside the expectations of the US government, then they will sink your sorry ass. Your tax dollars at work.
I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that the CG sank that excellent vessel because it represented a hazard to navigation. After all, we can't just have '51 Chevy pickup trucks floating around, unattended, in our coastal waters, can we?


warch  Thursday Jul 31 12:29 PM

Quote:
After all, we can't just have '51 Chevy pickup trucks floating around, unattended, in our coastal waters, can we?
Just parts.


elSicomoro  Thursday Jul 31 01:21 PM

Re: Re: Rule of Law

Quote:
Originally posted by Hubris Boy
After all, we can't just have '51 Chevy pickup trucks floating around, unattended, in our coastal waters, can we?
With all the other crap in the ocean, what's one more pickup truck?


dave  Thursday Jul 31 02:36 PM

The point is that something might hit it, retard.



warch  Thursday Jul 31 02:55 PM

Oh. The other crap might hit it.



elSicomoro  Thursday Jul 31 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dave
The point is that something might hit it, retard.
Yeah, and they might also hit a 50-foot whale, dingleberry.


dave  Thursday Jul 31 03:19 PM

...whereas if they sink it, it's not going to get hit.

Also, I think a whale is probably not as hard as a 1951 Chevy Truck.



elSicomoro  Thursday Jul 31 03:41 PM

Of course it makes sense to get rid of it somehow. I'm not sure destroying it was the best thing to do, but I'm not a mariner.

As far as the damage the truck could inflict on a boat, it would depend on the size of the boat. It could probably take out a pontoon or a motorboat...maybe a cutter? But a huge merchant ship? I doubt it.

And I don't think the "hardness" of a whale would necessarily matter. If a deer can total a car, imagine what a whale could do to a boat or ship.



dave  Thursday Jul 31 04:01 PM

Whales aren't as hard as deer.



Griff  Thursday Jul 31 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dave
Whales aren't as hard as deer.
Somebody needs to read Moby Dick.


arz  Thursday Jul 31 04:32 PM

[beavis and butthead snickering]

He said "Moby."

[/beavis and butthead snickering]



pegusitas  Thursday Jul 31 04:51 PM

Well, they're trying again

This was posted today on CNN's Offbeat News site:

"The Cubans who converted a 1951 Chevy pickup into a boat and sailed it to within 40 miles (65 kilometers) of Florida last week got another truck and drove it to the U.S. Interests Section on Wednesday to try a new -- and legal -- bid to go to the United States."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

-Alex



Griff  Thursday Jul 31 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arz
[beavis and butthead snickering]

He said "Moby."

[/beavis and butthead snickering]
Sometimes a harpoon is just a harpoon.


xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Jul 31 10:44 PM

Quote:
After all, we can't just have '51 Chevy pickup trucks floating around, unattended, in our coastal waters, can we?
If the crew hadn't been illegally shanghaied it wouldn't be an issue. All they had to do is tell them to turn around because they wouldn't be allowed to land in the U.S..:p


quzah  Thursday Jul 31 11:40 PM

This is a rather interesting topic if you think about it. What exactly would be the violation here? Let's assume they actually made it into waters where America legally had a prayer, because what they did is outright wrong. You cannot board, sink, or capture some other craft in international waters just because you feel like it. Danger or no, it's not your property, you have no legal right to capture, board, or do shit, to anything in international waters.

But let's assume they actualy were in "our coastal waters". (Some one needs to pay attention here, 40 miles out is NOT "our coastal waters".)

1) What right does the coast guard / navy have when it comes to randomly boarding vessels? Can they just because they feel like it?

2) Equate this to a boatload of Canadians tooling around in a vessel. Who says they can't hit port and put around whatever town they like? Are you required to immediately visit the customs office or something, just because you happen to have entered port?

3) What consists of a viable sea-worthy vessel? Who gets to decide that I can't float my Ford pickup around? People make rafts out of all kinds of shit. If I tie a bunch of logs together, that's fine for me to cruise around with, but if I use a Ford, I can't?

I still say there's no way in hell that that would fly were they to do it to some rich American who had lawyers. So if you're bored, rich American, grab a pickup and some oil drums, tow it 40 miles out, turn around and head towards shore and let me know what happens.

Quzah.



Hubris Boy  Friday Aug 1 01:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by quzah
Who gets to decide that I can't float my Ford pickup around?
I suppose the Coast Guard gets to decide.

I imagine that one could make the argument that the truck-raft full of Cubans in the middle of the Florida Strait were being rescued, not arrested. Their subsequent return to Cuba was the natural (and desirable) conclusion of their rescue. Because it would be racist and wrong of us to assume that the occupants of the truck-raft were attempting to enter the United States illegally, wouldn't it?

Or, as an alternative, one could argue that the captain of the CG vessel suspected that the truck-raft full of Cubans in the middle of the Florida Strait was engaged in piracy which, according to Admiralty law, is jus gentium and falls under the jurisdiction of any interested warship. In which case, he was well within his rights to board and seize the vessel in question.

Or, as yet another alternative, one could argue (in a wrong and racist sort of way) that a truck-raft full of Cubans in the middle of the Florida Strait must surely be attempting to enter the United States illegally, and that the captain of the CG vessel was acting reasonably the prevent the commission of a crime. And besides, the captain and crew of the Coast Guard cutter probably get tired of fishing the dead, bloated Cubans that didn't make it out of the drink, and they thought it might be nice to come back with some survivors for a change.

Take your pick.

Unless, of course, you'd have us believe that the truck-raft full of Cubans in the middle of the Florida Strait were simply out for pleasant days' sailing (as so many Cubans are wont to do), and that they were planning to turn and head back for Havana once they'd finished their lunch under the bright yellow tarpaulin?


dave  Friday Aug 1 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by quzah
(Some one needs to pay attention here, 40 miles out is NOT "our coastal waters".)[/b]
I believe, actually, that via some treaty (I don't remember which), nations are allowed to claim something like 200 miles of water surrounding them. As I recall, the United States claims 50. If that's the case, then yeah, 40 miles out could be considered our coastal waters.

Quote:
I still say there's no way in hell that that would fly were they to do it to some rich American who had lawyers. So if you're bored, rich American, grab a pickup and some oil drums, tow it 40 miles out, turn around and head towards shore and let me know what happens.
Of course it wouldn't. They're citizens. They pay taxes. They're <b>supposed</b> to be in the country. You think the Coast Guard would turn them around?

That being the case, if they got caught, I'm certain they'd get a citation or whatever the hell is supposed to happen when someone floats a truck into the country.


Griff  Friday Aug 1 07:29 AM

There was a thread on this freaky anarchist site which I visit but don't post on. They were fantasizing about buying an oil tanker as an offshore platform for various capitalist gambling and dope growing operations. They were pretty concerned with transport in and out of coastal waters but few of them recognized that they really couldn't set up shop anywhere but way into the Pacific and way off normal traffic routes otherwise they're going down. On the other hand, setting up in such a place might put your operation outside the reach of the RIAA.



xoxoxoBruce  Friday Aug 1 05:29 PM

Quote:
That being the case, if they got caught, I'm certain they'd get a citation or whatever the hell is supposed to happen when someone floats a truck into the country.
Unregistered watercraft plus probably safety violations, within 200 miles.


quzah  Saturday Aug 2 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dave
I believe, actually, that via some treaty (I don't remember which), nations are allowed to claim something like 200 miles of water surrounding them. As I recall, the United States claims 50. If that's the case, then yeah, 40 miles out could be considered our coastal waters.
Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
Trouble is, it's too big. It was spotted 40 miles south of Key West, which means they only made it about halfway before being picked up and sent back.
I see now. Since they made it half way, the coast guard hang out on the 40 mile marker (1/2 way between Cuba and the USA), and as soon as they cross the half way point, they bag them.

See, as per the above, this would work. Cuba takes 200 miles, the USA takes 200 miles, but since they overlap, they have to take half of the difference between the two countries.

It's still pretty lame. Why should I care if Cubans come over here? They're not going to take my job. My job went to India.

Quzah.


juju  Saturday Aug 2 08:58 PM

It's incredibly cruel to just sink something that someone's obviously put a whole lot of time into.



chrisinhouston  Thursday Oct 9 08:57 AM

Saw this in the local news today. Our fair and impartial immigration dept is hard at work!


Two on floating truck get chance for visas
Associated Press

HAVANA -- Two of the people who converted a 1951 Chevy pickup into a boat in a failed bid to reach American shores were granted interviews giving them a chance to get U.S. visas, one of the men said Wednesday.

Ariel Diego and Luis Grass received letters from the U.S. Interests Section inviting them to interviews on Dec. 3. Such interviews do not guarantee being granted a visa.

"At least this is an option we have," Diego told journalists. "The possibility still exists."

The U.S. Coast Guard sent the group back to Cuba in July after a U.S. Customs plane spotted their unusual truck-boat floating south of Key West in the Florida straits. The craft came within 40 miles of the U.S. coast.

Under U.S. immigration policies, Cubans who reach U.S. shores are allowed to stay while those caught at sea are usually returned.



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Oct 9 10:06 PM

Help 'em out. Write your congressman.



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Feb 4 10:47 PM

The U.S. Coast Guard (news - web sites) is seen intercepting a group of Cuban migrants sailing towards the Florida Straits on a modified 1959 Buick Tuesday February 3, 2004. The pilots were the same two men who tried to sail a converted 1951 Chevy flatbed truck to the U.S. last year. Nine other migrants, including wives and children. (AP Photo/photo released by CBS4 )



zippyt  Wednesday Feb 4 10:50 PM

Well you have to hand it to these guys , they don't give up !!!!!



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Feb 5 12:26 AM

And they like green. I suppose they'll sink the Buick, too.



quzah  Thursday Feb 5 02:19 AM

It could be the Vodka, but that BRIGHT GREEN TRUCK floating across the water just rocks! Wouldn't that be a trip to see? Especially high. That'd be great. Sitting on the beach, a bright green truck floats by!

Quzah.



wolf  Thursday Feb 5 11:15 AM

Wouldn't it have been easier for them to use an original VW bug?



glatt  Thursday Feb 5 12:55 PM

That's too damn funny. Reminds me a lot of a guy in Venice who makes floating cars.



glatt  Thursday Feb 5 01:00 PM

Here's that Venice dude.




wolf  Thursday Feb 5 02:18 PM

The original Bug floated on it's own. Didn't need to be made out of wood. It's how they were constructed.



glatt  Thursday Feb 5 02:58 PM

I remember those magazine ads.

"It floats"

Damn, I'm old.



e unibus plurum  Thursday Feb 5 03:31 PM

i thought Dali was dead



glatt  Thursday Feb 5 04:41 PM

Has a little pointy thing in front.



FileNotFound  Thursday Feb 5 04:56 PM

They should try that with faster cars.

They only need to go faster than the coast guard.

I doubt that the CG would open fire...well after 9/11 they proably will...still it's worth a shot.

I figure a supercharged ford truck engine or any Hemi could put out enough power to go much much faster.



dar512  Thursday Feb 5 05:05 PM

I don't think so. Not with the drag that something like those floating trucks are going to have compared to the V hulls of the coastguard ships.



lumberjim  Thursday Feb 5 05:54 PM

they would have made it easily in one of these:


of course, they'd only be able to fit 5 or 6 immigrants, but they could make 2 trips in this little speeder
more on this



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Feb 5 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
Wouldn't it have been easier for them to use an original VW bug?
The only one they have left, have rust holes.


xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Feb 5 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FileNotFound
They should try that with faster cars.

They only need to go faster than the coast guard.

I doubt that the CG would open fire...well after 9/11 they proably will...still it's worth a shot.

I figure a supercharged ford truck engine or any Hemi could put out enough power to go much much faster.
Faster than a speeding f-15/16/18 ?


CharlieG  Friday Feb 6 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Faster than a speeding f-15/16/18 ?
f-15/16/18 isn't very good at stopping a small boat like that unless you want to bomb it

However, as someone once pointer out to me - you can't outrun a radio. The just radio ahead, and the cutter waits for you


FileNotFound  Friday Feb 6 01:54 PM

I don't believe that they would have time to deply the jets at these short distances.

If the first BIG truck made it 40miles away from the shore at 8mph, think of what it could have done at 40?

You'll say "But 40 is fast for a boat.." Yeah but they can make it fast! They only need to cover ~200 miles on it, if even that. Supercharge it, water cool it, nitro it, rip off the muffler and the cats, floor it. Who cares if the engine only lasts the day? It's like the F1 engines which only last the race..

I would probably guess that they'd do better using a real speed boat though.

Oh and they just need to put up a big US flag and NOT look like Cubans to make it through. Like maybe not take the shortest route and not during the day?

Here is the magic formula:

Dark grey boat. No lights. Night.



xoxoxoBruce  Friday Feb 6 07:02 PM

The truck made it 40 miles because that's half way and they don't intercept before that. The US is watching ALL the time. Even the drug smugglers in high speed cigarette boats aren't fast enough.



quzah  Friday Feb 6 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by glatt
Has a little pointy thing in front.
This just screams "Condoreman"...

Quzah.


xoxoxoBruce  Friday Mar 25 11:59 PM

They finally made it! Not by sea, but through Costa Rica and Mexico.

Quote:
They were held in custody in Brownsville, Texas until Sunday. They traveled to Miami on Monday after being released on parole for humanitarian reasons. They will be allowed to apply for permanent residence in 2006.
I still feel bad about the Chevy Truck.


Griff  Saturday Mar 26 07:38 AM

I've got a truck that needs some work. Welcome to America, Boys!



LabRat  Monday Mar 28 10:22 AM

I've hardly been the environmentalist around here, but WTF is with them SINKING the two car/boats that this family had? They couldn't have just sent 'em to a junkyard for crying out loud? For some reason this really pisses me off. Oh, and welcome I guess to the family, if only most americans had that much willpower to get something done....



glatt  Wednesday Jun 8 03:00 PM

This thread just won't die!

They are back. This time with a modified taxi.MSNBC Story



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jun 8 10:55 PM

If they'd had 70HP/Liter, they'd have made it that last 20 miles before the Coast Guard found them.



Sweets  Thursday Jun 9 03:47 AM

Why must it be bright blue



Clodfobble  Thursday Jun 9 10:52 AM

To match their house?



wolf  Thursday Jun 9 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets
Why must it be bright blue
1. Hides better in the ocean.

2. In the communist worker's paradise, you paint things in the color that you have enough of. Sometimes not enough of.


Bloozer  Friday Jan 18 06:18 PM

Great plot for Gilligan's Island

What happened was they were just out for a 3 hour tour.... a 3 hour tour.

Skipper: "Holy crap little buddy, we're getting pulled over by the f***ing coast guard!!!"

Gilligan: "I knew we shouldn't have left the island... Skipperrrrrrrr!!!!!"

(my gawd, I seem to have lost my mind, hehehe...) -Bloozer-



Aliantha  Friday Jan 18 07:00 PM

Welcome to the Cellar Bloozer!

Nice way to begin your stay with us.



xoxoxoBruce  Friday Jan 18 11:36 PM

They'll never give up trying to escape the socialist utopia.



ZenGum  Saturday Jan 19 08:10 AM

So I, try, kiss America, Hi,
Drove my Chevy to the levy but the levy was ...dry?
Them good ol' boys were dodging Castro and tides. Sinking?
This'll be the way that I die.
This'll be the way that I die...



xiphos  Sunday Jan 20 01:58 AM

damn

obviously you people don't live in Florida. I know this picture was taken a while ago, but immigration is becoming a real problem where i live. it is bringing in gangs, which grafitti everything, and now you can't walk into a gas station w/out worrying about getting shot. and now the neighborhoods are really bad because the cubans are too damn lazy to get jobs, and also because they are illegal.



xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Jan 20 07:35 AM

That's not unique to Florida, xiphos. When we attract illegals from countries where they are not happy, we're also going to attract illegals from countries where they are not wanted.... or should I say are wanted, by the law.
That's the bottom line with illegals, you don't know what you're getting.



TheMercenary  Sunday Jan 20 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphos View Post
obviously you people don't live in Florida. I know this picture was taken a while ago, but immigration is becoming a real problem where i live. it is bringing in gangs, which grafitti everything, and now you can't walk into a gas station w/out worrying about getting shot. and now the neighborhoods are really bad because the cubans are too damn lazy to get jobs, and also because they are illegal.
Don't tell it to Radar, he is helping them come here.


Elspode  Sunday Jan 20 10:27 AM

I wonder if John Deere thought about sponsoring the '51 Chevy pickup guys for refugee status? With the color of the truck and accessory tarp, it should have been an advertising coup.

"Nothing floats like a Deere..."



richlevy  Sunday Jan 20 10:45 AM

Quote:
Allen said Grass’s "greatest frustration was that he was stuck at sea and he was not able to land in Miami and drive up to the beach."
I think even the most die-hard anti-immigration redneck would have wanted to see that.

Of course, now that he's in the US, you know what's going to happen. He's going to start a company selling car-boat conversion kits and lakes are going to be filled with floating Fords and Buicks.


classicman  Sunday Jan 20 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
Don't tell it to Radar, he is helping them come here.
yup, and then he'll explain how they don't have to pay income tax too.


classicman  Sunday Jan 20 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRat View Post
I've hardly been the environmentalist around here, but WTF is with them SINKING the two car/boats that this family had? They couldn't have just sent 'em to a junkyard for crying out loud? For some reason this really pisses me off.
Wow, a little late in answering your question LR, but they sink all kinds of things to create man-made reefs which support a great deal of sea life. I know up here there are a few that were sunk bout 10 - 15 years ago and they are great success stories about the marine life that is living in them and the fishing that goes on around them as well. Course they are all stripped of anything toxic..... but just sayin.


Aliantha  Sunday Jan 20 05:53 PM

There is an argument that 'artificial reefs' only serve to collect fish so they're easier to catch rather than providing new environments for them to live in.

It's a contentious issue atm though. There seems to be equal evidence for both sides of the fence.



classicman  Sunday Jan 20 07:21 PM

Ali, you really piqued my interest on this topic with your counter argument. I have volunteered with these projects several times and know people who work on them well. They all told me the same thing - fish numbers overall increase with the added artificial reef. I understand that they are potentially biased, but I did a little research today as well and the overwhelming evidence points to an increase in both fish populations and in fish species.

Quote:
The Effects of Man Made Structures on Nearby Resident Fish Communities
Researchers: William Alevizon, J.C. Gorham and several graduate research assistants.

Project Number and Duration: R/LR-B-20, 1985 - 1987

Question: The classic debate over artificial reefs is whether the reefs increase fish numbers or merely concentrate fish in one place. Could a carefully controlled study of the impacts of artificial reefs on the fish communities in a Florida marine sanctuary help move this debate in one direction or the other?

Project: Researchers counted and identified the fishes living in a flat, sandy habitat in two six-hectare (14.8 acres) study sites in Looe Key National Marine Sanctuary in the Florida Keys. Next, they built two artificial reef groups, each consisting of 12 small PVC- and concrete blocks, near the sites. They then censused the fishes in the study sites every three months for one year.

Results: Of the five most abundant species - green razorfish, Hemipteronotus splendens, pearly razorfish, H. novacula, rosy rasorfish, H. Martinicensis, slippery dick, Halichoeres bivittatu and the sand seabass, Diplectrum formosum -- researchers saw no change in the total numbers of adult and juvenile fish on the sandy habitat, or in the proportion of one species to another, in the pre- and post-reef censuses. The researchers next took the project a step further, building a large artificial reef at the center of one reef group. Nine months later, numbers of all but one of the most common species had increased 100 percent - yet numbers remained unchanged on the natural reef group. Both the earlier and later results appear to demonstrate that, at least in this case, artificial reefs resulted in an increase in fish stocks rather than a concentration of existing stocks.

Impact: By demonstrating one scenario in which artificial reefs did not have a negative impact on surrounding fish populations, the results provided support to public and private efforts in Florida to develop new artificial reefs and enhance existing ones. Through studies such as this one, artificial reefs are coming to be seen as more than just convenient 'fish attractors' In a report on the project, Alevizon wrote, "...The rational use of manmade reefs may substantially extend our ability to protect natural endangered systems, by providing the option of increasing available suitable habitat."
There were several more that all concurred with this conclusion and only one that countered it.

This led me to wonder if it was different over there versus here?


classicman  Sunday Jan 20 07:27 PM

Alabama's Artificial Reef Program

Quote:
In fact artificial reefs can be created that over time will appear as natural reefs with similar communities of encrusting organisms and bait fish. As various encrusting organisms such as corals and sponges cover the artificial reef material, small animals take up residence. As these small animals become abundant larger animals are attracted and feed upon these. Yet larger fish are attracted to these and so on until a complete reef food web is created. At that point the artificial reef functions as a natural reef.



TheMercenary  Sunday Jan 20 07:37 PM

I know they have dumped a bunch of old NYC train cars off our coast in the past.



Bloozer  Monday Jan 28 10:52 AM

Hi Ali,

Pardon me for not responding sooner. I just wanted to say thanks for the welcome

woohoo... now I have 2 posts!!!



classicman  Monday Jan 28 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
I know they have dumped a bunch of old NYC train cars off our coast in the past.
Not train, but subway cars as far as I know - found this link on it.


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jan 28 11:38 AM

The question is, do the reefs increase the fish population or just cause them to gather in one spot, making them easier to catch, rather than being scattered and harder to catch?



classicman  Monday Jan 28 11:52 AM

The data suggests that initially it draws fish from other areas and over time, as the reefs take hold in the environment, the reefs increase the fish population by creating a new place for smaller organisms and species to live and breed. This works its way up the food chain to larger species and so on.
Personally, it has increased the places to fish in my area - the older spots are still productive, but there are new ones now as well. To me, that indicates increasing populations. Thats the only personal experience I can bring to the issue.



fredsonic  Wednesday Jan 30 06:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Oso View Post
Holy crap, that looks exactly like something you'd see on Junkyard Wars.
In the UK we have a motoring show called "Top Gear" presented by three lunatics, Jeremy Clarkson, James May & Richard Hammond. They all converted road vehicles into amphibious craft & were made to carry out a variety of tasks, including sailing from the south coast of England to France through the buseyest shipping lane in the world. Two out of the three sank. The Toyota got there.








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