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   Undertoad  Monday Nov 3 02:00 PM

11/3/2003: Japanese dolphin kill



The official cap:

The sea turns red with the blood of dolphins caught and butchered by fishermen near Taiji, Japan. Japan, to its shame, allows 22,275 of the intelligent marine mammals to be caught during the October-to-April hunt. This photo was taken by the American anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.

Sick.

From the full story, "In the videotape, fishermen pound on the water, causing waves that confuse the animals' sense of direction, then corral the dolphins into small coves, where they can be easily killed."

Sick.



dave  Monday Nov 3 02:08 PM

So, uh, who wants to go for a swim?



Whit  Monday Nov 3 02:12 PM

      Personally I find this revolting. Largely because of watching "Flipper" as a child and all the stories one hears about dolphins saving human lives. Still...

Quote:
From the article:
"What's wrong with eating dolphins? There are Hindus, Muslims around the world who don't eat beef or pork, but do they tell Europeans not to eat this meat," Sato said. "To impose one's culture on others is to deny the culture of other countries."
      Sato makes a good point here. It's sick because of how we feel. His point is pretty damn logical. I would be all for finding a more humane way to kill the dophins if possible, but again that's emotion based thinking.


dave  Monday Nov 3 02:29 PM

It's not really emotion-based thinking. I think it's the right thing to do to keep animals from suffering as much as possible. Why? Because if we're raising them just to eat 'em, I figure we can at least treat them humanely while they're alive. Wouldn't we want the same for ourselves?

I find it revolting because <b>look at that water!</b> I don't have any problem with eating dolphins per se, although they are more intelligent creatures and therefore probably are more like humans when it comes to being hunted down and killed (i.e., know what's going on and are not happy about it).



Whit  Monday Nov 3 02:39 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; These dophins aren't being raised to eat though. They're being hunted in the wild. The water is indeed disgusting, and the animals inteligence is part of what I find so disturbing about it. However, you ever hunt deer? It can be a pretty bloody affair as well. Since it's not in the water it's not so... visually disurbing. Also, they're "corraling them into a cove, so all the blood is in a limited space. Makes for a foul image, which is exactly what the person taking the pic wanted.



dave  Monday Nov 3 02:43 PM

Nah, I don't hunt deer. I'm aware of how messy it can be, 'cause I've been around it, but I don't feel any particular need to hunt. Those that enjoy it can do so. My problem is that I get out there and I see a carefree animal stomping around in the snow and having a good time, and I don't want to disturb that.



Whit  Monday Nov 3 02:50 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interestingly enough, that's where I stand on deer hunting too. Alot of my friends and relative's hunt, which I'm cool with, but I don't. I've spent enough time in the woods to have walked close, even dangerously close to deer. They're much more, um... impressive I guess is the word, in the wild. Especially when you're on the ground and unarmed.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've never seen one in the snow though... maybe that's cause I'm hiding in the warmth of a home or building?



Happy Monkey  Monday Nov 3 02:54 PM

There's some question about whether the blood in the water has been photoshopped a bit.



Whit  Monday Nov 3 03:14 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It wouldn't surprise me if it was photoshoped a bit. You would have to know about the turbidity of the water there, as well as what kind of water flow somes in and out of those coves to know for sure. The amount of blood isn't that important anyway. It's just a way to graphically make the number of dolphins hit home.



OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whit
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sato makes a good point here. It's sick because of how we feel. His point is pretty damn logical. I would be all for finding a more humane way to kill the dophins if possible, but again that's emotion based thinking.
Not such a good point.

To say that westerners eat cows and pigs and therefore (basically) can't say shit about them eating dolphins is not a valid point because we raise the cows and pigs our culture consumes. I don't see dolphin farms in Japan for the cultural consumption by the Japanese. It's apples and oranges.

If they want to raise dolphins as livestock and slaughter them for food, I'm fine with that. Apperantly the Japanese govt is fine with them slaughtering a given amount per year.

The sea turning red with the blood is sick, and I have no intention of knowingly eating dolphin. I buy dolphin safe tuna, too. But I think they should be able to eat it, if their culture (and government) says it's ok and it follows international environmental law.



Undertoad  Monday Nov 3 03:27 PM

I would guess that they just turned up the color saturation of that particular red, but not that they did a color conversion, or added new red where it wasn't.



quzah  Monday Nov 3 04:18 PM

It is to... cry.

People suck.

Quzah.



Leah  Monday Nov 3 04:23 PM

These people have to be stopped, it's F*#king sick.
And the Japanese wonder why more and more people are loosing respect for them and their tradition/culture. They have stripped the oceans surrounding them and now fish in our waters, illegally. They need to be stopped and stopped for good.



dave  Monday Nov 3 04:28 PM

Yes! And... the fine tradition of bukkake needs to be imported here to the US! Along with all their women! Yes!

I like the way Leah thinks!



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Nov 3 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
I would guess that they just turned up the color saturation of that particular red, but not that they did a color conversion, or added new red where it wasn't.
The greenery and the boat look pretty intense too. The rocks wouldn't show anything anyway. The watermark looks like its low tide or coming up. That would tend to keep the red in the cove.


bmgb  Monday Nov 3 05:01 PM

Quote:
If they want to raise dolphins as livestock and slaughter them for food, I'm fine with that.
!!!

I can't imagine the kind of outcry there would be if dolphins were raised in captivity for food. Especially if they are raised in conditions similar to some cows and pigs in this country. They are enough people against the captivity of dolphins in ZOOS.

As sickening as the blood may look, it's not too different from what you would see on a slaughterhouse floor.


OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb

!!!

I can't imagine the kind of outcry there would be if dolphins were raised in captivity for food. Especially if they are raised in conditions similar to some cows and pigs in this country. They are enough people against the captivity of dolphins in ZOOS.

As sickening as the blood may look, it's not too different from what you would see on a slaughterhouse floor.
It is an animal, and if Sato wants to make his point about it being "just another meat" then they need to raise them just like any other meat.

It is not our place, as citizens of other countries, to make policy decisions for Japan and their food, just like I don't want a person of Hindu persuasion telling me I can't eat cow.

If the Japanese government is following international environmental law, and the Japanese people want to kill dolphins for some tasty fin pudding, who are we, as members of other countries, to tell them they can't or shouldn't?



chrisinhouston  Monday Nov 3 05:58 PM

There is more at http://www.greenpeacefoundation.com/....cfm?campId=13

Note: user discretion advised, there are several graphic photos

I enjoy sushi and rare tuna steaks but this is not for me.



jtm  Monday Nov 3 06:04 PM

The argument about Americans being told what to eat is irrelevant. The question is what do the activists eat since they're the one telling the Japanese what not to eat. I wouldn't be surprised the activists are strict vegetarians.



DNK  Monday Nov 3 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar


Not such a good point.

To say that westerners eat cows and pigs and therefore (basically) can't say shit about them eating dolphins is not a valid point because we raise the cows and pigs our culture consumes. I don't see dolphin farms in Japan for the cultural consumption by the Japanese. It's apples and oranges.

Apples and oranges:










bmgb  Monday Nov 3 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar

It is an animal, and if Sato wants to make his point about it being "just another meat" then they need to raise them just like any other meat.
[/b]
Why is it better to kill animals if we've raised them? Is that just another culturally biased judgement you're making?

Oh, and Americans don't just eat animals that we raised, in case you haven't noticed.


Leah  Monday Nov 3 06:41 PM

Those pictures make me feel absolutely sick in the stomach.
I have never eaten Sushi cause I feel that all meats including fish should be cooked. Plus I know that raw meat such as Kangaroo meat have worms in it. Not that I'd ever eat Kangaroo either.



OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb


Why is it better to kill animals if we've raised them? Is that just another culturally biased judgement you're making?

Oh, and Americans don't just eat animals that we raised, in case you haven't noticed.
I didn't say it was better, I was responding to Sato's point. He was comparing westerners eating cow to Japanese eating dolphin. I'm saying it's not a correct comparison, because westerners raise cattle for that purpose, whereas Japanese don't.

So I'm not making "another culturally biased judgement".

And I never stated Americans only eat things we raise. That would be an absurd statement.

Thanks for playing.



OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DNK



Apples and oranges:

**pictures of cows and pigs**
I fail to see the point of the post. To show us we slaughter cows and pigs? We knew that.

The difference is we raise cows and pigs for the purpose of eating them, and I DON'T see Japanese raising Dolphins for the purpose of eating them, therefore SATO's point was invalid. That was the apples and oranges.

Thanks for playing.



xoxoxoBruce  Monday Nov 3 07:43 PM

Quote:
who are we, as members of other countries, to tell them they can't or shouldn't?
We are the one that won. They shouldn't be so uppity.


OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 07:48 PM

*giggle* You are so cute!



quzah  Monday Nov 3 08:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar


I fail to see the point of the post. To show us we slaughter cows and pigs?
The point is to [mock you for/laugh] at your hypocrisy. Dolphins make you sad. Cows make you hungry. Hypocrisy makes me sick, but that's your right.

The point of showing cows and pigs? The same as killing dolphins. It saddens me greatly. But it's like I've already stated, people suck.

Quzah.


OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by quzah

The point is to [mock you for/laugh] at your hypocrisy. Dolphins make you sad. Cows make you hungry. Hypocrisy makes me sick, but that's your right.
I fail to see the hypocrisy in my statements.

*I* wouldn't eat a dolphin, but I do eat cow. I don't eat Octopus, either, but I eat shrimp. I eat steaks and sausage, but won't touch organ meats. It's preference, not hypocrisy.

And how, I wonder, are people getting the idea that I'm not disgusted the slaughter represented in those pictures? I AM disgusted by it, and the point of all of these posts is that Sato's defense of his position was stated from the wrong standpoint.



dave  Monday Nov 3 08:28 PM

I think the whole bit about raising dolphins for food is absurd. Native Americans didn't raise buffalo. So what? I'd say hunting them is less offensive to the animal kingdom than raising for food, because at least those in the wild have a chance.

What was your point again, Onyx? One that makes sense this time, please.



OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 08:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dave
I think the whole bit about raising dolphins for food is absurd. Native Americans didn't raise buffalo. So what? I'd say hunting them is less offensive to the animal kingdom than raising for food, because at least those in the wild have a chance.

What was your point again, Onyx? One that makes sense this time, please.
Did anyone read the quote posted at the beginning of the thread by Sato?

Posted by Whit:

quote:From the article:
"What's wrong with eating dolphins? There are Hindus, Muslims around the world who don't eat beef or pork, but do they tell Europeans not to eat this meat," Sato said. "To impose one's culture on others is to deny the culture of other countries."


Sato makes a good point here. It's sick because of how we feel. His point is pretty damn logical. I would be all for finding a more humane way to kill the dophins if possible, but again that's emotion based thinking.


My reply was to counterpoint Whit's assertion that Sato makes a good point.



Edit for clarity and to try to minimize the effects of my frustration


dave  Monday Nov 3 08:30 PM

Yes.

I still don't see how whether or not they raise the animals is relevant.



SteveDallas  Monday Nov 3 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar


read
"read"? What is this strange thing "read" I have been hearing about?


OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 08:36 PM

OMFG!!

Sato said, "what's wrong with eating dolphins?"

Nothing.

Sato said, "There are Hindus, Muslims around the world who don't eat beef or pork, but do they tell Europeans not to eat this meat"

No. But Europeans raise these animals strictly for the purpose of slaughtering and eating them, so IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and this is A STUPID FUCKING THING TO BRING UP BY WAY OF COMPARISON.

Apples and Oranges.

The comparison.

That's all. Just a point on the comparison.

Jesus H.








OnyxCougar  Monday Nov 3 08:57 PM

Somehow, some way, I have ceased to be able to express myself through the written word.

The part that scares me is that one of my minors in college is English.

I have never encountered so much frustration trying to express my opinions in written form than I have here.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a moderate vocabulary and at least rudimentary grasp of syntax.

How then, am I failing to communicate my thoughts on various issues?



quzah  Monday Nov 3 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
How then, am I failing to communicate my thoughts on various issues?
Because no one here can understand how it matters if they're raised or not. Killed is killed. Why does it matter if they raise dolphins or if they hunt them? They're dead either way. The death is the same. The slaughter is the same. Why does it matter if they're raised or if they're free swimming and caught and killed?

The point is, they're both dead. That's why no one can understand your point.

Hypocrisy: You getting sad at free little dolphins being killed, but it being ok to raise and kill cattle.

Quzah.


dave  Monday Nov 3 10:49 PM

Pretty much what quzah said. It's not "apples and oranges" because one is raised and one isn't. I even stated before that one not being raised strictly for killing is easier to justify to many because at least the animals live a free life until they're killed. And you're getting all smarmy with "Thanks for playing" when you really don't have a point at all. Your comparision is stupid. Whether or not they were raised for food doesn't matter; the fact that they end up dead in the long run is the issue. Most groups fighting this don't want dolphins killed <b>at all</b>. It's not "we don't want wild dolphins being killed". They consider dolphins semi-intelligent creatures that, for more than one reason, should not be killed.

Stop being so fucking smarmy and try to read what others are saying instead of dismissing them outright and going "Thanks for playing". We've tried to read your post, it does <b>not</b> make sense, and I asked you to clarify. You come back with "this is A STUPID FUCKING THING TO BRING UP BY WAY OF COMPARISON" and quzah and I cannot possibly fathom how this is a STUPID FUCKING THING TO BRING UP BY WAY OF COMPARISON - because it's not. At the end of the day, animals got slaughtered and eaten. What's the difference? How does raising the animal make it "more better" to kill? How exactly is his comparison not valid if the end result is that animals die?



coliano  Tuesday Nov 4 12:25 AM

Hi everyone, I'm mostly a lurker, forgive me for jumping into such a hot thread. I love you all so whether you agree or disagree, so it's all good.

For the moment, lets forget about the picture of blood bay.

Onyx does have an absolutely valid point in that this is an apples to oranges issue. Here's why.

The quoted statements from Sato in Whit's post contained a logical fallacy. That fallacy was the implied assumption that the japanese killing dolphins and other cultures killing beef are an apple to apple comparison. They are not and I'll explain in a moment. Whit's comment that Sato had a logical point was really more emotional than logical. ;-) And I think that this is what Onyx has been trying to point out.

Western cultures have conditioned themselves to accept the killing of cows for food. The japanese have conditioned themselves to accept the killing of dolphins for food. Apples and Apples. You can substitute any creature you want for cows or dolphins. Cats, dogs, spiders, horses, you name it and there is a culture out there who considers it food. Sato is correct in that it would be wrong for one culture to impose its own standards of what is 'food' on another. In that sense, we're all 'guilty' and it's a thread for another forum whether or not killing animals for food is ethical or 'right' or what have you.

Sato and others are incorrect in stating that killing animals raised in captivity for that purpose and killing wild animals like dolphins are 'equal.' From a social/ethical/moral point of view yes, they are equal. It's killing an animal for food. There is however a major difference. When animals are born, bred, and slaughtered in captivity, you effectively have a closed system. The effects of that system on our ecosystem as a whole are relatively minimal*. The natural population of wild cattle (if such a thing exists) doesn't change no matter how many cattle farms there are. When the japanese kill wild dolphins, to such a degree that we know their global populations are dwindling, they are harming the entire ocean system and the ecosystems that depend on it by upseting the stability of populations that have evolved over millenia. They are in fact imposing their own culture on the entire world, are they not?

This is not to say that we do not do the same things. If Sato had compared the killing of dolphins with the eskimo hunting of endangered whale species, that would have been more of an apples to apples issue. Instead, he mixed a moral/ethical issue with one of global ecology. Apples and Oranges. No culture has the right to tell another what their cultural standards should be. Any culture has the right to take a stand when another culture's practices threaten the global ecosystem.

I think Onyx was just trying to point out that while it may seem logical to say that we're just as bad for killing cattle as they are for killing dolphins, Sato's logic just doesn't follow through to conclusion because it leaves out a big part of the equation. Morally speaking, we are just as 'bad' as they are. Globally speaking, raising cattle on farms to be slaughtered for food is immeasureably more responsible than driving any species of animal towards extinction (to be slaughtered for food).

Although the discussion in this thread may be about whether or not killing animals for food is right or wrong, the picture was of dolphins being killed and was (sort of) accompanied by a quote that kicked off the discussion. That quote contained a deceptive logical fallacy. Sato's point about relative morality was a straw man; I have no problem stating that in my opinion the world has every right to tell the japanese to stop killing dolphins.

In short, it was a nasty picture and definitely not a nice thing to think about. I think the Japanese are in the wrong on this one. At risk of flamage, I suppose you could say I agree with OnyxCougar here. That said, I think that "Thanks for playing" isn't the best note to end a post on. It's always better to learn something from someone elses post than to have your feelings hurt.

Thanks for listening ;-)



*I know, I know...debateable.



Whit  Tuesday Nov 4 12:59 AM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greetings Coliano, and welcome.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I see what you and OC are saying about the differences in the comparison but I think you are reading way to damn much into it. I don't think Sato was saying that killing dolphins is no more harmful to the sea than killing cows. He's talking about eating them. The quote was directly about eating dolphins. It didn't even reference how they die, yet that's been the big issue with the comparison. That's not what he was talking about. You've added way to much meaning to what was said. Keep it down to a comparison of eating one type of meat vs. another and you'll be on topic with the quote.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now on the subject of the numbers of dolphins left in the wild... That should be solid grounds for making these slaughters internationally illegal. But that's another discussion.



wolf  Tuesday Nov 4 01:01 AM

My first impression on seeing the photo was "wow, that so has to be 'shopped."

Let me put it this way now, "I so hope that it's 'shopped."

(Snopes has not yet spoken on this particular issue.)

As far as DNK's slaughterhouse photos go, so what. I have no illusions where my dinner/breakfast meats are coming from. Seeing pictures of industrial meat production is not going to change my desire for tasty bacon (and hardened arteries. No illusions, remember?)

I don't feel worse about folks eating dolphins just because they're cute and appear to be darn smart. I wasn't all that attached to Flipper as a child. Pigs are supposed to be smart too. Doesn't stop me from enjoying a ham sandwich.

Hell, they had to rename dolphin fish in order to sell it in American restaurants.



coliano  Tuesday Nov 4 01:40 AM

Thanks Whit glad to be here. It's a great place and all you regulars are why I keep coming back,

No threadjack intended. I confess to not having read the accompanying article before posting. A sin I know

Having read it I understand the context. As you say he was simply comparing the eating of one type of meat vs. another.

So here's my 2c.

Sato aside however and without weighing in on whether killing animals for food is right or wrong I think that when endangered or imperiled species are at risk, 'cultural bias' should be a non-issue. The japanese in this case, rationalize the dolphin hunt to westerners as a 400 year old cultural tradition. While I can't morally justify my objections to their eating dolphins, I can certainly justify my objections to their *killing* them.

Hopefully it won't be too long before we can synthetically 'grow' the flesh of the animals we eat. I know signifigant strides are being made in that arena. Besides, dolphins are too cool to kill.



wolf  Tuesday Nov 4 02:45 AM

(are we sure these aren't actually sharks? Shark tastes great, you know)



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Nov 4 04:59 AM

Quote:
Sato and others are incorrect in stating that killing animals raised in captivity for that purpose and killing wild animals like dolphins are 'equal.' From a social/ethical/moral point of view yes, they are equal. It's killing an animal for food. There is however a major difference. When animals are born, bred, and slaughtered in captivity, you effectively have a closed system. The effects of that system on our ecosystem as a whole are relatively minimal*. The natural population of wild cattle (if such a thing exists) doesn't change no matter how many cattle farms there are. When the japanese kill wild dolphins, to such a degree that we know their global populations are dwindling, they are harming the entire ocean system and the ecosystems that depend on it by upseting the stability of populations that have evolved over millenia. They are in fact imposing their own culture on the entire world, are they not?
Ok, except cattle being the 2nd largest source of methane gas after termites, do have a significant impact on the ecosystem.


OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 09:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by quzah

Hypocrisy: You getting sad at free little dolphins being killed, but it being ok to raise and kill cattle.

Quzah.

I still don't understand why you think I'm a hypocrit on this:

If the Japanese were raising dolphins to be killed just like we raise cattle to be killed, Sato's comparison would be the same. But the Japanese aren't raising the dolphins, they are cornering them and slaughtering them, sometimes days going by before they actually die. Hence the outcry, the photo and this thread.

There is a difference between free animal and raised animal. So I feel different about free animal and raised animal.

Koreans eat dog. They breed and raise a certain type of dog for food. I've eaten dog when I was in Kunsan, Korea.

I don't have a problem with Koreans eating raised dog.
I would have a problem if a Korean came to my house, stole my dog and ate it, or if they went to the house across the street, someone I don't know, and stole their dog and ate it.

I think to me, the fundamental difference between raised meat and wild meat, is that in raised meat, there is less suffering in the butchering process than the descriptions in the greenpeace website in regards to these dolphins.

If you corral a bunch of cows, indescriminately stab away and it takes 3 days for the thing to die, I have a problem with that. If you corral a bunch of dogs, pigs, dolphins, sharks, pirahna, whatever, and they suffer for three days before they die, I have a problem with that.

I'm not thrilled about deer/elk/moose/rabbit/pheasant/quail/javelina/whatever hunting, because sometimes the animal gets wounded instead of killed, and runs away to die slowly. I think that's wrong. But...it is in accordance with the law and I will die to defend anyone's right to lawfully hunt game. That's why I said in the first posts, if the Japanese are hunting dolphins in accrdance with international law, it's not our place to decide for them. Doesn't mean I have to l like it.

But my original post, again stated for clarity, is about Sato's statement, as quoted by Whit, and Whit's reply that it's a logical argument. Coliano expressed it better than I did (thank god) and I've managed to calm down a little. I still do NOT see hypocrisy in my statements, quzah, and I want you to be more specific, pointing out places that I was.



Undertoad  Tuesday Nov 4 09:48 AM

And nothing in the thread about the relative intelligence of dolphins compared to cattle?

For me that's the thing that makes it no longer apples to apples. Cattle may not like being raised and slaughtered, but they lack any conscious concept of what's happening to them. While I would prefer they not suffer during the process, the fact that they can't ask why it's happening makes all the difference.



OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 09:56 AM

I'm sorry, UT, I'm so busy being misunderstood about the frigging quote, and being called a hypocrit because I eat meat, that I'm afraid to actually respond to that.



Undertoad  Tuesday Nov 4 10:10 AM

Now let's discuss MY relative intelligence for not noticing that there WERE points made about dolphin intelligence. Sorry.



dar512  Tuesday Nov 4 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
And nothing in the thread about the relative intelligence of dolphins compared to cattle?

For me that's the thing that makes it no longer apples to apples. Cattle may not like being raised and slaughtered, but they lack any conscious concept of what's happening to them. While I would prefer they not suffer during the process, the fact that they can't ask why it's happening makes all the difference.
That's closer to how I feel. I don't think I could eat anything I could imagine having for a pet. I could not eat dog, even if it was raised for its meat. I watched Flipper as a kid, so I would never eat dolphin.

I understand that pigs are smart - mayber smarter than dogs. But I can't imagine keeping one for a pet, so I don't think I'll have any problems BBQing another slab of ribs.


dar512  Tuesday Nov 4 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Somehow, some way, I have ceased to be able to express myself through the written word.


The part that scares me is that one of my minors in college is English.

I have never encountered so much frustration trying to express my opinions in written form than I have here.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a moderate vocabulary and at least rudimentary grasp of syntax.

How then, am I failing to communicate my thoughts on various issues?
Because in a conversation, people listen to understand. In a debate, people listen to gather amunition. Guess which one you've wandered in to.


dave  Tuesday Nov 4 10:29 AM

She wandered into a conversation and turned it into a debate.



dave  Tuesday Nov 4 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I still don't understand why you think I'm a hypocrit on this:
Because you're saying it's okay for one animal to die but not another, and your reason is completely absurd (as will be demonstrated below).

Quote:
I think to me, the fundamental difference between raised meat and wild meat, is that in raised meat, there is less suffering in the butchering process than the descriptions in the greenpeace website in regards to these dolphins.
Then you really have no idea what happens in slaughterhouses. It is just as awful as what happens to these dolphins.

I don't have a problem with eating meat (had me some nice sausage gravy on biscuits for breakfast), but let's be honest: treating animals nice and easing their suffering isn't what the whole meat industry is about. They're about making money, and you save money by cutting corners.

Very reasonable explanations have been given for why dolphins shouldn't be killed and why the difference between raised and wild is so large. You still haven't even made those arguments yours! You've been given a great amount of ammunition and you've used none of it. Your argument now apparently boils down to "raised meat suffers less". No, it really, really doesn't. Go educate yourself on it before you debate assholes like quzah and me who spend way too much time reading and researching this shit.

Quote:
I would have a problem if a Korean came to my house, stole my dog and ate it, or if they went to the house across the street, someone I don't know, and stole their dog and ate it.
If anything remotely resembling this were taking place, I suppose this would be relevant. The Japanese aren't stealing dolphins from the Baltimore Aquarium or SeaWorld. They're hunting dolphins in Japanese waters and it's in accordance with Japanese law.

Okay, so you don't like it. You still haven't convinced anyone that this is better somehow than what happens everyday in abbatoirs across the United States.


dave  Tuesday Nov 4 10:55 AM

coliano - You make a mostly valid point, but I think she's demonstrated that what you are talking about is not at all what she is talking about.



Whit  Tuesday Nov 4 11:05 AM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Isn't it interesting that for all the debate going on here we have all seem to dislike the dolphin slaughter and agree it's not our place to tell the Japanese what to do?



kisrael  Tuesday Nov 4 11:07 AM

dolphins or porpoises?

Are the Dolphins or Porpoises, and do you think that matters?

I know people get the two mixed up a LOT.



wolf  Tuesday Nov 4 11:25 AM

Porpoise is chewier.



OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dave
coliano - You make a mostly valid point, but I think she's demonstrated that what you are talking about is not at all what she is talking about.
No, it isn't. I just made the mistake of adding my opinion on the subject to the whole hypocrit thing. And nobody seems to acknowledge (besides coliano) that this whole thing started over my comment about Sato. So consider this my last, poorly written post on the subject. Y'all can think I'm a hypocrit if you want to. Whatever.


dave  Tuesday Nov 4 12:16 PM

What's a hypocrit?



quzah  Tuesday Nov 4 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar

I still don't understand why you think I'm a hypocrit on this:
Because you're a fucking idiot. Here's why:

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
There is a difference between free animal and raised animal. So I feel different about free animal and raised animal.
No there isn't, here's why:

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Koreans eat dog. They breed and raise a certain type of dog for food. I've eaten dog when I was in Kunsan, Korea.

I don't have a problem with Koreans eating raised dog.
I would have a problem if a Korean came to my house, stole my dog and ate it, or if they went to the house across the street, someone I don't know, and stole their dog and ate it.
Ding ding ding! The Hypocrite meter just went off!

Ok, so what do you have a problem with here? The fact that they "stole their dog", or the fact that it's your or your friend's dog? So if I go down to the pound, get myself a dog, and BBQ the fucker, that's fine, but if I get a puppy, raise it up, then eat it, that's wrong. Why?

So if I treat an animal as if it is a worthless piece of shit, I can eat it. But if I give it any personal value, then it's horrific to eat it?

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy here?

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I think to me, the fundamental difference between raised meat and wild meat, is that in raised meat, there is less suffering in the butchering process than the descriptions in the greenpeace website in regards to these dolphins.

If you corral a bunch of cows, indescriminately stab away and it takes 3 days for the thing to die, I have a problem with that. If you corral a bunch of dogs, pigs, dolphins, sharks, pirahna, whatever, and they suffer for three days before they die, I have a problem with that.

I'm not thrilled about deer/elk/moose/rabbit/pheasant/quail/javelina/whatever hunting, because sometimes the animal gets wounded instead of killed, and runs away to die slowly. I think that's wrong. But...it is in accordance with the law and I will die to defend anyone's right to lawfully hunt game. That's why I said in the first posts, if the Japanese are hunting dolphins in accrdance with international law, it's not our place to decide for them. Doesn't mean I have to l like it.
So if the Korean in question buys your neighbor's dog's litter of puppies, then deftly snaps their necks so they die quickly, and eats them then, that's ok? You're a piece of work.
Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I still do NOT see hypocrisy in my statements, quzah, and I want you to be more specific, pointing out places that I was.
Un-fucking-believable. I'm done here.

Quzah.


Undertoad  Tuesday Nov 4 01:41 PM

It's interesting how one can have such great respect for animals and such little respect for fellow human beings.



dave  Tuesday Nov 4 02:05 PM

Well, in the defense of animals, they generally don't do stupid things like murder and stock fraud. Any killing they do is out of necessity, not for the pure glee. They have a pretty strong tendency not to be liars and they didn't create the atomic bomb or Nelson (the band).



Torrere  Tuesday Nov 4 02:05 PM

Wild cattle are called aurochs. Aurochs were domesticated into cattle in five different places roughly five thousand years ago. I had thought that aurochs went extinct at roughly the same time, but according to a site from Google, a herd of aurochs survived in the care of the Polish kings until the early 1600s.

Since the intelligence of cows has fallen so dangerously low, I believe that any attempt to re-introduce cows into the wild would end in blumbering failure.



coliano  Tuesday Nov 4 02:28 PM

Right you are xoxoxoBruce, thus the asterisk and the debateable comment. But that would be a whole other discussion now wouldn't it? Just trying to stay somewhere close to the topic at hand.



RQuinn  Tuesday Nov 4 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
It's interesting how one can have such great respect for animals and such little respect for fellow human beings.
Hear hear!

Personally, I'd eat anything, dog, dolphin, or human. But I've long since learned that people don't want to listen to someone like me, so I'll stay out of this.


OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 03:01 PM

I'd recommend it.

And since quzah can't debate without personal insults, I decided he's not worth debating with.



OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 03:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by coliano
Right you are xoxoxoBruce, thus the asterisk and the debateable comment. But that would be a whole other discussion now wouldn't it? Just trying to stay somewhere close to the topic at hand.
Yeah, like that's gonna happen.


kisrael  Tuesday Nov 4 03:08 PM

I think it is an uncommon but not hypocritical or self-contradictory to hold that human concern for an individual animal is what gives that animal value "worth" in the sense of whether it's ok to kill it or not.

That said, I think Dolphins are high enough up the intellgence and uniqueness chain that their killing on a large scale should give us pause. (I have a moral sense that uses "non-trivial uniqueness" as a rough measure of a creatures value, what the universe loses when that life is snuffed out. It sounds a little cold, but actually is a pretty morally defensible position I think.)



OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 03:09 PM

**ducks**



warch  Tuesday Nov 4 04:16 PM

ummmm...ducks....



DNK  Tuesday Nov 4 04:33 PM

Okay, ducks:




quzah  Tuesday Nov 4 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I'd recommend it.

And since quzah can't debate without personal insults, I decided he's not worth debating with.
Translation: Since I have no counter-point to his points, I'll ignore them and pretend they don't exist. Just like you pretend it's OK because they raise cattle. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

Quzah.


OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 04:54 PM

I think they're much prettier with the feathers on them.



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Nov 4 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by coliano
Right you are xoxoxoBruce, thus the asterisk and the debateable comment. But that would be a whole other discussion now wouldn't it? Just trying to stay somewhere close to the topic at hand.
Since I was responding to YOUR post, at the time it was the topic at hand. But since this thread has wandered all over the map just what the hell is the topic at hand now?
Japs wholesale killing of dolphins?
Japs eating dolphins?
Anybody eating any critters?
Raising vs hunting critters
Eating dumb vs smart critters?
Eating apples vs oranges?:p


OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 4 08:08 PM




Griff  Tuesday Nov 4 08:36 PM

You folks should be ashamed of yourselves. Those are obviously sharks...



Hermit  Wednesday Nov 5 01:16 AM

Intelligent?

Quote:
Japan, to its shame, allows 22,275 of the intelligent marine mammals to be caugh
Quote:
fishermen pound on the water, causing waves that confuse the animals'
If they are so intelligent, why are they so easily confused? Why aren't they pounding on the boats confusing the people?


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Nov 5 04:23 AM

Of course, Hermit. Any critter that engages in recreational sex, has to be intelligent.



Whit  Wednesday Nov 5 09:20 AM

Quote:
From Hermit:
If they are so intelligent, why are they so easily confused? Why aren't they pounding on the boats confusing the people?
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This coming from a mimber of a species that you can give a small percentage of seizures by flashing lights at them? Dude, the problem lies with a flaw in the sense, it's like hitting us with a bright light so we can't see. In fact, the line doesn't say it confuses the dolphin, it says it confuses it's sense of direction.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think a better question would be, "If dolphins are so intelligent why do they take drowning humans to shore rather than waiting around at beaches to drag dolphin eating humans to the bottom?"


Whit  Wednesday Nov 5 09:26 AM

Quote:
From Dave:
Well, in the defense of animals, they generally don't do stupid things like murder and stock fraud. Any killing they do is out of necessity, not for the pure glee.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Actually, dogs that have been abandoned or escaped domestication somehow will kill for sport. This in no way invalidates Dave's point. I just wanted to point out that animals aren't beyond human corruption. Go us.


wolf  Wednesday Nov 5 02:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DNK
Okay, ducks:]
Coolness ... little salt, little pepper, little orange glaze and we are good to go. I'll fire up the grill. Fire roasted duck!


99 44/100% pure  Wednesday Nov 5 03:09 PM

That'd be free range fire-roasted ducks, of course.



OnyxCougar  Wednesday Nov 5 03:11 PM

Right. Killed in accordance with local laws.



DNK  Wednesday Nov 5 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf


Coolness ... little salt, little pepper, little orange glaze and we are good to go. I'll fire up the grill. Fire roasted duck!

That actually sounds very inviting. Alas, I'm vegan (well, I do eat honey) so I'll have to pass.

BTW, before you call me a PETA freak, it's for MY health, NOT the animals.


GBA

DNK


OnyxCougar  Wednesday Nov 5 04:42 PM

Makes me want chinese now. Duck with that cherry sauce and the cucumbers thinly sliced, served with those eeny weeny rice tortilla things.

*drool*



breakingnews  Wednesday Nov 5 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Makes me want chinese now. Duck with that cherry sauce and the cucumbers thinly sliced, served with those eeny weeny rice tortilla things.

*drool*
Mm ... peking duck. I ate an assload of that in Toronto a few weeks back. It's a real pain in the ass to make though - have to make sure the duck dries out really well, otherwise it doesn't get crispy.

GO to chinese restaurants with ducks hanging in the window (and where you can't understand anyone) - chances are those ducks are better cooked than in places where they cheat by just deep-frying it to crisp the outside.

Slaughtering dolphins to chinese food ... interesting digression.


dave  Wednesday Nov 5 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Right. Killed in accordance with local laws.
Just like the dolphins in Japan.


OnyxCougar  Wednesday Nov 5 07:30 PM

Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally posted by me, on the first post.
The sea turning red with the blood is sick, and I have no intention of knowingly eating dolphin. I buy dolphin safe tuna, too. But I think they should be able to eat it, if their culture (and government) says it's ok and it follows international environmental law.



bmgb  Wednesday Nov 5 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Right. Killed in accordance with local laws.
Because then it must be OK. :p

Quote:
Originally posted by DNK
BTW, before you call me a PETA freak, it's for MY health, NOT the animals.
Be careful. Wouldn't want anyone to think you CARE about animals.


OnyxCougar  Wednesday Nov 5 08:01 PM

Quote:
Because then it must be OK.
What does ok have to do with laws?

Apples and oranges.



bmgb  Wednesday Nov 5 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb
Be careful. Wouldn't want anyone to think you CARE about animals.
I just wanted to clarify. I think a lot of people here DO care about animals, and it is OK to say it. People go about the "caring" part in different ways, too. Having differences of opinion about it and being able to discuss it is cool.

The truth is, though I could go on a lot of other boards, tell them (I think) eating meat is wrong and just get flamed for it. Because a lot of people are just stupid and don't want to think about it. I appreciate that people here aren't afraid to discuss it openly. Now, I'll shut up before someone says, "group hug!"


bmgb  Wednesday Nov 5 09:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OnyxCougar
What does ok have to do with laws?

Apples and oranges.
OK has NOTHING to do with laws. That's what I was trying to say. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

Apples and oranges? I wasn't making a comparison, and I don't want to drag out the "apples and oranges" discussion anyway, because it's been run into the ground already.


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Nov 5 09:59 PM

Quote:
I don't want to drag out the "apples and oranges" discussion anyway, because it's been run into the ground already.
Ground apples and oranges with cranberrys is scrumptious.


Whit  Wednesday Nov 5 11:11 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bet it would make a great garnish for a nice plate of dolphin.



wolf  Thursday Nov 6 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by breakingnews
Slaughtering dolphins to chinese food ... interesting digression.
Welcome to The Cellar. See "Thread Piracy".

It's a well-established tradition.


slang  Thursday Nov 6 01:51 AM

Did someone mention "chinese food"? (drool)



bmgb  Thursday Nov 6 02:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Ground apples and oranges with cranberrys is scrumptious.
I like ground cherries. And fresh ground coffee.


DNK  Thursday Nov 6 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb

Be careful. Wouldn't want anyone to think you CARE about animals.
Well, I guess I did come off as pretty harsh. Didn't mean to sound that way. Its just that ever Vegan I know is a crazy animal freak that is a raging liberal. I guess I was trying to shun this association rather than being an animal lover. In fact, my wife and I have taken in three strays in the last 6 months, but that's coming around to bite me in the ass to the tune of $1500.00. I'd get into that but it's totally off topic, which everyone is diligent on doing. You know, staying on topic. Maybe I'll create a new thread to tell my story if there is interest.


GBA

DNK


DNK  Thursday Nov 6 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by slang
Did someone mention "chinese food"? (drool)
Here's some chinese food for you...


slang  Thursday Nov 6 11:58 AM

If they use enough MSG and/or sauce, it makes little difference what the meat is. The important things are that it comes in the little folded paper box and they deliver.



Elspode  Thursday Nov 6 01:05 PM

Another case of honest entrepreneurs being dogged by the authorities.



OnyxCougar  Thursday Nov 6 01:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb


OK has NOTHING to do with laws. That's what I was trying to say. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

Apples and oranges? I wasn't making a comparison, and I don't want to drag out the "apples and oranges" discussion anyway, because it's been run into the ground already.
Sorry. Forgot the [sarcasm] [/tongue in cheek] tags.


OnyxCougar  Thursday Nov 6 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DNK

Here's some chinese food for you...
Quote:
"Two were inside black garbage bags and the other two were exposed on the floor of the freezer."
That's unsanitary regardless of the meat in question.


bmgb  Thursday Nov 6 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DNK
Maybe I'll create a new thread to tell my story if there is interest.
I'd love to hear about it.

(I hate PETA too, but for different reasons than most people. Maybe I'll start a thread about that someday.)


DNK  Thursday Nov 6 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmgb


I'd love to hear about it.

(I hate PETA too, but for different reasons than most people. Maybe I'll start a thread about that someday.)

Okay, I noodle it out. It'll have to wait til next week since I go to court on it tomorrow (Friday). Wish me luck..


GBA

DNK


Torrere  Thursday Nov 6 05:17 PM

Why use another thread [you know you won't] when you've already started on this one!?

I used to really dislike subject drift in the threads on the Cellar, and I tried to sketch out another forum which would avoid the problem, but that died. I'm much more nonchalant about it now, and hey! it's fun!

Maybe someone (with an exorbinant excess of free time) should sift and index the Cellar.



OnyxCougar  Thursday Nov 6 05:52 PM

Are you a virgo?



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Nov 6 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elspode
Another case of honest entrepreneurs being dogged by the authorities.
Heh, heh, heh, funny.
I've eaten in Chinese resturants all over the place and noticed everywhere, the Chinese people that come in don't use a menu and get food that I've never seen served to non Chinese. Maybe the canine carcasses were for special requests.

aside-I was in Madrid one night with a Chinese engineer doing some sightseeing. Neither of us spoke Spanish and our interpreter (an engineer from South America) had taken off to visit friends. We found a Chinese resturant that had menus in Spanish and English so I told him what I wanted in English. He told the waiter what I wanted in Mandarin and the waiter told the cook in Cantonese. We paid in Spanish and tiped them with dollars.


OnyxCougar  Thursday Nov 6 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
aside-I was in Madrid one night with a Chinese engineer doing some sightseeing. Neither of us spoke Spanish and our interpreter (an engineer from South America) had taken off to visit friends. We found a Chinese resturant that had menus in Spanish and English so I told him what I wanted in English. He told the waiter what I wanted in Mandarin and the waiter told the cook in Cantonese. We paid in Spanish and tiped them with dollars.

Every see that I Love Lucy episode where Lucy doesn't have any foreign money in France or wherever they were and she's at a restaurant and they arrest her? Ricky comes to bail her out and so the line goes:

Police ---> guy who speaks French and German ---> guy who speaks German and Dutch ----> guy who speaks Dutch and Spanish ---> Ricky, who translates for Lucy.

That was pretty funny.

Guess you have to see it.



lumberjim  Thursday Nov 6 08:48 PM

chinese food

I had Chinese food in a German restaurant the other day.

....and two hours later, I was hungry for power.



dar512  Friday Nov 7 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
We found a Chinese resturant that had menus in Spanish and English so I told him what I wanted in English. He told the waiter what I wanted in Mandarin and the waiter told the cook in Cantonese. We paid in Spanish and tiped them with dollars.
Ok. You started it. That reminds me of this one:

I was in Edinburgh Scotland on business. I was meeting Russian software engineers and the first night we went to a French restaurant. When the Russians ordered beer, they got Budweiser.

And I grew up in St. Louis.


elSicomoro  Friday Nov 7 07:48 PM

But was it AB's Budweiser or Budvar's Budweiser (made in the Czech republic)?

(Whereabouts in St. Louis, dar? Or perhaps the more appropriate question to ask...where did you go to high school? )



dar512  Monday Nov 10 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore
But was it AB's Budweiser or Budvar's Budweiser (made in the Czech republic)?

(Whereabouts in St. Louis, dar? Or perhaps the more appropriate question to ask...where did you go to high school? )
It was the real Anheiser brew. The waitress described it to the Russians as "a light American lager" IIRC.

I went to Bayless High - a really small district tucked in between Afton, Mehlville, and Lindbergh.


wolf  Tuesday Nov 11 01:37 AM

[beer snob]Budweiser Budvar is the REAL Budweiser. The weak, watery concoction that MAY be based on a recipe stolen from the fine czech brewmasters is unworthy of being considered "beer" in any practical sense.[/beer snob]

Mass production American Beer is like making love in a canoe.



lumberjim  Tuesday Nov 11 09:20 AM

IT'S FUCKING CLOSE TO WATER

-LIVE FROM THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL MONTY PYTHON



r9703410  Tuesday Nov 11 09:23 AM

Those poor little dolphins! My life is dolphins I love them so much. How can they do such a thing!



Whit  Tuesday Nov 11 10:56 AM

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do what? Kill the dolphins? With something sharp by the looks of the water. Eat the dolphins, just going with the stereotype, but with rice I'd imagine. Oh, and Soy Sauce.



dave  Tuesday Nov 11 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by r9703410
Those poor little dolphins! My life is dolphins I love them so much. How can they do such a thing!
The same you eat beef and make Hindus cringe, I would imagine.


dar512  Tuesday Nov 11 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
[beer snob]Budweiser Budvar is the REAL Budweiser. The weak, watery concoction that MAY be based on a recipe stolen from the fine czech brewmasters is unworthy of being considered "beer" in any practical sense.[/beer snob]

Mass production American Beer is like making love in a canoe.
Could be. [shrugs] I don't drink beer, so I have no opinion. Nice pun though.


OnyxCougar  Tuesday Nov 11 01:19 PM

Yeah, I had a drink of my Dad's beer once and nearly vomited. Don't do beer. No opinion on it other than that.



dar512  Tuesday Nov 11 01:24 PM

Ok. I've held off as long as I could, but I can't help myself. This is a portion of "Carrot Juice is Murder" by Arrogant Worms

Listen up brothers and sisters come hear my desperate tale
I speak of our friends of nature trapped in the dirt like a jail
Vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night
This killing of veggies is madness, I say we take up the fight
Salads are only for murderers, coleslaw's a fascist regime
Don't think that they don't have feelings, just cause a radish can't scream

Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)

You can read the rest of the lyrics here:

Carrot Juice is Murder



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Nov 11 11:43 PM

Quote:
Mass production American Beer is like making love in a canoe.
What's wrong with love in a canoe? I like it.


elSicomoro  Tuesday Nov 11 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dar512
I went to Bayless High - a really small district tucked in between Afton, Mehlville, and Lindbergh.
I know it well. An ex-fiance of mine graduated from there in '95. I believe a cousin of mine goes there now. And my parents live near there, in the city.

(As far as myself, DuBourg, '94)


r9703410  Wednesday Nov 12 09:45 AM

Actually, I'm a vegitarian. So ah!



lumberjim  Wednesday Nov 12 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore


I know it well. An ex-fiance of mine graduated from there in '95. I believe a cousin of mine goes there now. And my parents live near there, in the city.

(As far as myself, DuBourg, '94)
'94!?
you little whippersnapper!

again, my mental image is betrayed. i thought you'd be older than me

downingtown '88

tell me you graduated at age 27 and all will be right in the world again


slang  Wednesday Nov 12 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lumberjim
.....tell me you graduated at age 27.........

The special ed kids dont really graduate....they're just released


dar512  Wednesday Nov 12 03:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore


(As far as myself, DuBourg, '94)
Normally at this point two people from St. Louis would start playing the "So, do you know &lt;name of person from the other guy's school&gt;?" game. But I graduated quite a while ago.

So, syc. Do you know anyone your parent's age from Bayless? &lt;he says playing the game anyway.&gt;


elSicomoro  Wednesday Nov 12 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lumberjim
again, my mental image is betrayed. i thought you'd be older than me
*sycamore thinks to himself...Is this a compliment? Hmmm...sure. Why not?* Ummm...thanks...I think.

Quote:
tell me you graduated at age 27 and all will be right in the world again
Afraid not...I just turned 28 last month, and have been out of school for almost 5 years.


elSicomoro  Wednesday Nov 12 08:47 PM

Dar, I don't think so. Most of the people I know in that area went to Catholic schools.



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